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Post by ultron69 on Jan 24, 2014 8:28:18 GMT -5
I mentioned it very recently in another blog, but it bears repeating here-- I think Sal B's clean, clear, straightforward style may have been an under-recognized salvation for this title. The stories- even pre-Gerber- tended to be rather "out there" fare that could very easily have been hard for the ambivalent fan to embrace. But Sal's comfortable, easy, familiar pencils tended to create an aura of legitimacy and credibility in stories that might not have so easily been accepted otherwise (I'm thinking Brotherhood of Mutant Babies, Bozos, Headmen, interplanetary Cthulu-like geologists, and elves with guns, to name a few). He was exactly the right guy for these writers and their ideas, I'm thinking. HB The Headmen? One of the weirdest stories I've ever read. And it seemed to drag on forever. What was Gerber thinking? It's as if he decided to resurrect these extremely obscure, horror comic characters from the 50's on a dare.
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 24, 2014 8:23:05 GMT -5
As for these issues though, first time ever reading them, man, what a blast! The plot was zany, but handled very well. My biggest nitpick though is why would Namor help them stop Nebulon? The Squadron is set to destroy the surface world, something Namor has always quested for to some degree, and they are doing so by raising the ocean levels, certainly an action that would benefit the Atlantean race. Other than possibly dealing with Nebulon's people, I thought Namor would benefit from this deal. I was thinking the same thing. "If the whole world is under water, isn't that a good thing for Namor?" I thought I was missing something. Yes, I know Dr. Strange says that the Atlanteans would be wiped out as well, but that just doesn't make any sense to me. Plus, if the ice caps are melted, the deluge is going to be a gradual thing. I don't think there will be 100 foot tidal waves all over the globe.
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 24, 2014 8:20:12 GMT -5
I wonder if anyone knew about global warming back when this was written, because this is global warming in a hurry! I had meant to comment on this point, but forgot until reminded by the BAB review. I was 6 when this came out, but I recall always being at least vaguely aware of global warming. There were lots of public service ads about the campaign to rid aerosol cans of CFCs to save the ozone layer. Cool sounding words, I had no idea what they meant. I guess I don't remember those ads, but I do remember the anti-pollution ad from the late 70's with the Native American (though they were just called American Indians back then) seeing all the pollution we cause, then crying as he looks upon a huge heap of garbage.
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 23, 2014 7:57:25 GMT -5
I've always been amused at the amount of dialogue people manage to say in an incredibly short time. In #13, Namor throws the Whizzer and then says "Eh? The Speedster twists his body in mid-air --negating the force of my throw--and now rushes towards me at blinding speed" to which Whizzer replies "And when I reach you Fish-man -- you're not gonna have time to regret it." For Pete's sake, if Whizzer is as fast as he's supposed to be, all there should have been time for was "Eh?" If there was this much time, Namor should have been able to move out of the way. This happened frequently in comics and always annoyed me. I've just come to accept this as artistic liberty of comic book writers, sort of the way these people endure huge beatings with nary a scratch (though maybe a torn costume on occasion) and people without invulnerability always seem to be able to avoid bullets. It's wierd that they can say so much in such a short time, or that they would bother to warn their enemy of their attack with a battle cry or a pithy quote, but hey, that's the pulp in our orange juice.
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 22, 2014 9:14:35 GMT -5
This was definitely my first time reading these books. I loved team books when I was starting out reading comics (the 40 cent days) and I read Defenders for a while. But since, as I've mentioned else-thread, I have never been a fan of the Hulk I never really clicked on the book. When I discovered X-Men, I switched teams and never looked back. Did you collect Defenders when they brought all of the ex-X-Men on board? I'd only had a couple issues of the Defenders (issue numbers in the 70's) but I started collecting when the Beast, Angel, & Iceman joined. I was such an X-Zombie at that point...
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 22, 2014 9:11:11 GMT -5
I suppose it makes sense, a bit like Thor's human identity occasionally being forgotten for months at the time. Was Bruce Banner ever particularly popular? He is kind of the cheerleader desperately dancing to keep the public entertained before the real game begins... Especially in the movies. "C'mon, Hulk out already!!"
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 22, 2014 9:08:58 GMT -5
Wundy, that is indeed a different Whizzer-- not related to Bob Frank, other than usurping the aged speedster's code-name. He seemed particularly more insane here than maybe I re-called him being in Avengers #76. . . but I'm pretty sure that's the guy. HB I thought the Whizzer's insanity here was a lot of fun!
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 21, 2014 8:34:41 GMT -5
Thanks for the answers to our questions, HB. I'd also had Shiryu's question about all-Hulk, all the time. I do now seem to vaguely recall Namor's "wings" getting torn off in that fight you mention.
Another thing I meant to mention is that Valkrie seemed to get more powerful as the series progressed, perhaps as some of the heavy hitters (Surfer, then Namor, then, much later, Dr. Strange) left the group and there was more of a need for an additional heavyweight on the team.
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 20, 2014 7:56:26 GMT -5
OK, I managed to read Defenders 13 & 14 this weekend, so here goes.
First off, anything with the Squadron Supreme has got to be good. Also, I’m’ probably in the minority, but I like Namor’s costume here. I don’t know what the “wings” under his arms are for, but I think this is far more regal and more fitting for a prince of Atlantis (I love how he refers to himself as “Prince Namor the first” in #14) than a pair of green swimming trunks. I don’t think this is Nighthawk’s best look, though. The beak and super long eyebrows have got to go. Luckily they did. Further visual comment – Nebulon is really cool looking.
It’s a shame that my favorite Defender, the Silver Surfer, had recently left for good a couple of issues ago.
Good, solid Sal Buscema/Klaus Jansen art. Sometimes Sal’s faces bother me, but mostly good stuff here.
Down to the story. Typical Marvel superhero “attack first and ask questions later” approach as Val & the Hulk attack Nighthawk. I do like the “lettuce lips” comment, though. At least it’s a change from “jade jaws”. Dr. Strange has to do what Reed Richards and Cap have so often had to do with their groups and be the only one with a cool head. Interesting that early on, Hulk seemed pretty angry at “dumb magician” but by this issue has been won over by Strange, and considers him a friend. I guess there’s no other way to keep this “non-team” alive than to have them be able to tolerate each other’s presence, though. Also, with all of these serious folks in the group, the Hulk is about the only source of humor. I did like his line to Nebulon to the effect of “let me out of this bubble so I can smash you”.
Gotta love the plot. Hey, Nebulon, I’ve got a bridge to sell you. I wonder if anyone knew about global warming back when this was written, because this is global warming in a hurry! I was wondering why the Defenders didn’t simply destroy the laser cannon rather than attack the Supremors, but of course it turned out to be just as well that they didn’t.
Ah, the old fatal flaw of the supervillain, letting the good guys live when you’ve got them dead to rights. Shame on you, Hyperion! At least Hyperion gives a decent reason for it, though. I was a bit surprised that Dr. Strange couldn’t get out of Nebulon’s bubble. What happened to his ability to teleport? But at least they came up with the old “combine our forces in one spot” idea.
Nebulon comes from a race of geologists? That is one powerful group of geologists! And the others must be even powerful than him, since he’s the only one that’s failed in his objective. I’m not sure why all three Supremors needed to man that laser cannon, other than to allow Nebulon to have to fight the Defenders all by himself. It was a nice surprise ending. I was even surprised again by Nebulon’s true form, as I had forgotten about it! I had been wondering why on earth Nebulon wanted the earth flooded when he was supposedly after minerals, but our plot twist explained that nicely.
All in all, a nice, fun, Bronge Age read. Good solid artwork, some great battle scenes between the Defenders and the Squadron Supreme, a bit of humor between the Hulk and the whole buying the earth thing (plus coocoo for Cocoa Puffs Whizzer) and a bit of a twist at the end.
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 18, 2014 5:22:16 GMT -5
Do your kids even know what jiggy is? And I'll have to ban you from my non-existent message board if you start extolling the virtues of those hideous, Giffen-esque bomber jackets. Heck, I'm not even sure I know what jiggy is-! But it's certainly amusing to watch my kids' heads spin around whenever I use the term in public. . . (Whenever I use it at work, my crew audibly moans in disapproval. It's really an astonishing word. . . ) HB Hmm, maybe I'll have to try that at work. Well, maybe not...
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 18, 2014 5:17:55 GMT -5
I just discovered this thread. I don't know the origin, but I'll concur that it's pretty awesome. Maybe I'll get a tee shirt made up with it.
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 17, 2014 10:38:18 GMT -5
Also-- take that away from Tigra's "personality profile", and what the heck is she? What makes her a unique person or superhero? Possibly her lack of being innately brave or heroic? I dunno. Not a lot of "character" to be found in the character, I guess. Even this can be fine, if it's well done and not overdone). I remember developing a soft spot for Invisible Kid 2 in the Legion of Super-Heroes, because he reacted the way a normal person, suddenly thrust into a superhero role (as he was) would react. It made him seem more human to me. With Tigra, it just became pathetic and annoying. And Firebird was definitely more interesting upon a re-reading of the series, Ultron-- you're right. Completely missed boat, there-- and she would of course have been a HUGE foil for Tigra's exploits-! Geeze, I would have enjoyed reading that much more than inexplicable trips to that inane Cat Dimension and what-not. HB (Let it go. . . gotta let it go. . . ) You're right. I wonder if Firebird could have cleaned up Tigra's act. Time for some fan fiction.
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 17, 2014 10:31:41 GMT -5
I don't have Hulk #128 (sounds like a good one though) but luckily I've got Defenders #13 & 14 in my Essential Defenders, so as long as no one discusses how great the coloring is, I'm in.
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 17, 2014 10:28:27 GMT -5
I'm in! I'm in! Who else is there? At the moment, in order of "registration", you have Humanbelly Yours truly Wundagoreborn Ultron69 Dr Bong in one of his several identities Spiderwasp Sharkar (anyone else who wants to join, just drop a line here. Starfoxxx, Spiderwasp, Woodside, Bobc... I'm looking at you ) Humanbelly - first in war, first in peace, first in the hearts of his countrymen, and first in the AA board book club!
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 15, 2014 9:33:40 GMT -5
And I'll be there with my red safari jacket on. And I shall attend in my skin-tight, Dr. Druid, for-the-luva-god-PLEASE-put-on-a-dance-belt!, one-piece body-suit. Femininity-hood, BEWARE! HB Codpiece too?
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 14, 2014 11:27:59 GMT -5
If there is enough interest, I'd be happy to give it a go. Most of us have access to older issues either as originals or reprints, and I could always set something up for the odd time this isn't the case. Anyone else on board for this? I'll be there with my bomber jacket on. And I'll be there with my red safari jacket on.
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 14, 2014 11:25:55 GMT -5
I also remember an issue where Hellcat helped out and Tigra acted very, well, catty towards her. Hey, catty, I get it! I remember that well. It was in Avengers 305 (Cover date July 1988) when all existing members gathered (They could all fit in one room back then. Now they can barely fit in one building) and Tigra treated Patsy like crap, referring to her as the new kid. I could possibly buy that if it had not just been very recent (WCA 16, Jan 1987) that the two characters had worked together and then hung out for a day of boating and relaxing. They were clearly very friendly and Patsy had Tigra's complete approval for wearing the costume. What happened in those 2 1/2 years to change the tone? Not a darn thing. Just lousy writing. And yes, I do look those issues up. I don't just have all the cover dates memorized. lol You should have left your last sentence off. I was just going to compliment you on your memory! LOL
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 13, 2014 9:52:44 GMT -5
They do always look tempting, but when I have bought the bigger collections I always regret it. They have fantastic contents but to me they are awkward to read. I bought the New Teen Titans Omnibus, and while it looks gorgeous, one of the reasons I haven't gotten around to reading it yet is that it's freakin' huge. If I try to read it while laying in bed, it may very well crush my chest.
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 13, 2014 9:07:29 GMT -5
Now that you're back, HB, I can start visiting this site again. Yikes-- I'm an attraction?? Ohhhh, that's a scary set of circumstances. Surely. . . SURELY. . . there must be something or someone better. . . HB Well, there are the complimentary back rubs.
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 13, 2014 9:05:35 GMT -5
Y'know, she was just such a train-wreck. Have I read or heard somewhere that she was intentionally introduced (the first time) in order to show that not all heroes are cut out to be Avengers? Sort of as an object lesson? If not, it surely looked that way. HB Her run on the Avengers most definitely looked that way. I'm not sure why she was brought onto the Wackos, however, but probably not to explore that storyline. At the risk of going slightly off topic, I wonder why Englehart brought Firebird on board. She reminded me of Jocasta - sort of hanging around, helping out, and nobody thought to make her a member until it was too late. Hawkeye's recruitment attempts at the Thing were amusing, though.
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 13, 2014 8:44:35 GMT -5
Why start a site? Isn't that what the Classic Avengers section on here is for? Kick off any pre-300 thread you like - I'll play as time permits. Hey, I'd be jiggy w/ that, too. (Heh, LOVE to embarrass my kids w/ that word!) I'd even tend to be more liberal and extend the boundary up into the Gatherers era, just to have a chance to once again explain my deep and sincere appreciation of the team bomber jackets. . . HB Do your kids even know what jiggy is? And I'll have to ban you from my non-existent message board if you start extolling the virtues of those hideous, Giffen-esque bomber jackets.
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 10, 2014 9:37:55 GMT -5
Now that you're back, HB, I can start visiting this site again.
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 10, 2014 9:36:22 GMT -5
I rate Tigra somewhere below Dr. Druid. She was quite possibly my least favorite Avenger, back in the pre-Bendis day. She just did nothing for me and her "I can't quite get a grip on my cat-like insticts" storyline just never gripped me. I also remember an issue where Hellcat helped out and Tigra acted very, well, catty towards her. Hey, catty, I get it! Her feelings of uselessness with the Eackos before she joined the Wackos also just didn't grab me. Anyway, I found her useless both in terms of personality and powers.
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 10, 2014 9:32:31 GMT -5
Sad to say though, Bong, that I think the heyday of our beloved pastime (at least in a form that we easily recognize and have a deep connection to) has passed-by for many of us folks here. I'm glad that we have Bobc & Marvel Boy & SpiderWasp & a few others keeping up with the current Avengers titles a bit and giving us the on-going low-down-- but for me, and I suspect for several in our rough age bracket, what we think of on this board as "The Avengers" had a finite existence that has drawn to a close. What continues on in its place seems distant and. . . I don't know. . . lacking legitimacy? But I recognize that that's a terribly condescending and snobbish-sounding statement, so please don't anyone get too offended by it. Ultimately, I think the Bendis-ization of the MU took a terrible toll on our board here, as well. It became hard to talk about anything new, because most of the opinions (including mine) were relentlessly negative, and one gets tired of just kvetching and complaining non-stop. And the few folks here who were honestly enjoying that era tended to get clobbered or at the very least, made to feel unwelcome or unappreciated. The final major price jump was a pretty darned big factor for me personally, as well. So, w/out a body of new comics that most folks here would be reading, we do tend to run out of timely topics to discuss and opinions to share. But perhaps it would be fun to jump back and continue discussion on older comics once again? I totally miss Owen Erasmus' delightful Guide. And the Kurmudgeon Korner I started got off to a very nice start-- and then I simply didn't persevere. Maybe time for blasts from the past to get opinions rolling again? HB Personally, I'd much rather live in the past than try to get into the newer comics. Most of them just don't do it for me, for some reason, and I haven't looked at a new Avengers title in a few years, till I realized that Bendis (IMHO) sucked. I think I should start a site where only discussion of Avengers up to #300 (maybe I could be generous and go up to 325) is allowed.
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 10, 2014 9:25:43 GMT -5
That's great period in Avengers history, and is more or less when I started collecting them. Also great to hear good news about Perez's health.
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Post by ultron69 on Nov 18, 2013 9:39:06 GMT -5
Never mind Thor, when is a Warriors 3 movie coming out??!!
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Post by ultron69 on Oct 28, 2013 7:29:27 GMT -5
I've finally caught a few episodes. I thought it was quite good. Not as good as EMH, but certainly one of the better animated programs that Marvel has put out.
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Post by ultron69 on Sept 24, 2013 13:09:32 GMT -5
Oh, speaking of Roy Thomas and a red bearded Thor, he also oversaw a red bearded Thor in an issue of All-Star Squadron (a very good Roy Thomas series, in case you wanted to know).
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Post by ultron69 on Sept 24, 2013 9:49:42 GMT -5
HB, I couldn't have, and in fact didn't, say it better myself.
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Post by ultron69 on Sept 23, 2013 6:53:53 GMT -5
I think you're right about Roy on Thor, HB. He majored in History and English in college and I have a hunch he'd really get into the mythology aspect of Thor. Plus, Roy's good on just about anything. Oh, he did. In the original Norse myths, Thor has red-hair and a beard. Whom Thomas introduced in a short two, three part story! Nice find, Marvel Boy. I'll have to pick those up!
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