Doctor Bong
Reservist Avenger
Master of belly dancing (no, really...)!
Posts: 167
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Post by Doctor Bong on Jul 16, 2008 10:03:41 GMT -5
How do you rate Tigra as an avenger, on the scale from 1 to 8 points?
How well does she work for you within the dynamics of the team?
How much do you like/dislike her as a character?
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Post by scottharris on Jul 16, 2008 11:38:54 GMT -5
Useless as an Avenger. Well, not entirely: she was brought onto the team by Shooter as a plot device to show how elite the team is compared to run of the mill heroes. When she flunked out of the Avengers, she should have been banished from comics, never to be seen again. Including her in WCA was a mistake, as has been every appearance of Tigra since.
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Post by dlw66 on Jul 16, 2008 12:27:46 GMT -5
I gave her a 2, simply because skill-wise she could provide the stealth that T'Challa provides. I think Tigra's high point was her appearance in the pages of FF when the Frightful Four were auditioning new members (circa the #170's). She hung around there, but didn't catch on (which was a good thing, because I grow tired of her "in heat" shtick very quickly!).
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Post by Dr. Hank Pym on Jul 16, 2008 13:08:50 GMT -5
I also gave her a two, because I just couldn't stand her. I couldn't stand how she was always in heat/hitting on everyone every two minutes, just couldn't care for anyone else, and everytime I saw her fight, she was getting her butt kicked!
I think what best sums her up to me is in the What If? where Hank Pym died, and Jan's VERY upset over it, and Tigra asks her if she wants to go to a clothing store because Tigra needed new clothes. Jan said no, and Tigra muses to herself that Jan was no fun anymore! Um... hello? Her husband had just died! I don't know, I just think the party girl crap got old, fast.
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Post by woodside on Jul 16, 2008 19:03:14 GMT -5
Meh, pass on this catty lady.
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Post by starfoxxx on Jul 17, 2008 18:52:27 GMT -5
Wow, a lot of Tigra haters. I gave her a seven, I'm a big fan, and a sucker for a bikini.
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Doctor Bong
Reservist Avenger
Master of belly dancing (no, really...)!
Posts: 167
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Post by Doctor Bong on Jul 18, 2008 9:50:15 GMT -5
Seven for me as well...
She's one of my favorites too; guess I'm a sucker for tigers...
For me, this is a matter of blatant favoritism towards a character which, I will reluctantly agree, hasn't historically earned such a high score through her performance.
Having said that, I really enjoyed the Avengers when the team consisted of just her, Cap, IM and Thor. This was way back when, assisted by the Silver Surfer, they went against the Molecule Man and Cap finally learned the secret IDs of IM and Thor.
Looking back, some of my favorite teams seem to be the smallest ones, as I really enjoyed too the team consisting of the Wasp, Cap, Thor & IM. Perhaps what they used to say in the '70's is true: "small is beautiful".
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Post by Shiryu on Jul 18, 2008 13:01:37 GMT -5
2 for me too. She is one of those characters that, were they added today to the Avengers for the first time, would cause a major uproar on the web, a bit like Echo.
Still, she had a couple of good thought lines during the Court Martial of YJ, and I liked her dilemma against the Molecule Man, or the help she gave Captain Marvel (Rambeau) in the Unimind storyline.
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Post by Tana Nile on Jul 18, 2008 16:25:11 GMT -5
I give her a 3. I don't feel all that strongly one way or another about her. I don't think she should be dismissed because of her (relatively) minor powers, but I can't recall her making any real significant contributions either. Although i do hate the abuse she has received in New Avengers.
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Post by sharkar on Jul 21, 2008 18:09:26 GMT -5
Interesting look, but I must admit I don't know too much about her tenure with the Avengers.
For her look alone, I'll give her a 2.
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Post by spiderwasp on Jul 29, 2008 9:21:16 GMT -5
I like Tigra. Granted she's not one of the all-time great Avengers but she's a fun character and I'm a sucker for those strong personalities.
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Jul 29, 2008 21:56:04 GMT -5
Gave her a 3, because I somehow have fond memories of her tenure with the WCA. Haven't read those issues since they were published though. She was a terrible force on the team during her guest stars with the east coast though. I don't remember her historical ties with Patsy Walker or the Hellcat character -- never really understood that -- but some points there for history -- even if it's over my head.
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Doctor Bong
Reservist Avenger
Master of belly dancing (no, really...)!
Posts: 167
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Post by Doctor Bong on Jul 29, 2008 22:15:31 GMT -5
Gave her a 3, because I somehow have fond memories of her tenure with the WCA. Haven't read those issues since they were published though. She was a terrible force on the team during her guest stars with the east coast though. I don't remember her historical ties with Patsy Walker or the Hellcat character -- never really understood that -- but some points there for history -- even if it's over my head. Tigra wore Hellcat's costume originally, way back when she called herself (simply) the Cat and had no superpowers... At some point, Tigra was written like she had serious doubts about Patsy's worth to avail herself to her original costume & (sorta) codename. |
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darci
New Avenger
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Post by darci on Jan 3, 2014 17:55:57 GMT -5
[quote author=abracadabra board=general thread=1923 post=26508 time=1217387731
Tigra wore Hellcat's costume originally, way back when she called herself (simply) the Cat and had no superpowers...
At some point, Tigra was written like she had serious doubts about Patsy's worth to avail herself to her original costume & (sorta) codename.[/quote]
First, to me, this seems backward. The theory is Patsy found the Cat's costume and came up with her "improved" version of the name.
Second, the Cat's uniform is not the Hellcat's uniform. This concept stems from Avengers #144, where Steve Englehart wrote that Iron Man had heard rumors about the Cat appearing a while ago in Chicago, and both he, Captain America, and Patsy assumed it was the same costume. Nobody present had any first hand knowledge of the Cat's powers or appearance. The most obvious difference is the Cat uniforms (note: there were dozens of them) all had a "cat's paw" emblem on the chest. The Hellcat costume does not. It is close enough that Spider-Man, for one example of someone who has met both heroines, confused one with the other.
My conjecture is Brand heard the same rumors Tony Stark cited, and tried coming up with their own version.
Thanks!
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 10, 2014 9:36:22 GMT -5
I rate Tigra somewhere below Dr. Druid. She was quite possibly my least favorite Avenger, back in the pre-Bendis day. She just did nothing for me and her "I can't quite get a grip on my cat-like insticts" storyline just never gripped me. I also remember an issue where Hellcat helped out and Tigra acted very, well, catty towards her. Hey, catty, I get it! Her feelings of uselessness with the Eackos before she joined the Wackos also just didn't grab me. Anyway, I found her useless both in terms of personality and powers.
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Post by humanbelly on Jan 10, 2014 21:16:18 GMT -5
I rate Tigra somewhere below Dr. Druid. She was quite possibly my least favorite Avenger, back in the pre-Bendis day. She just did nothing for me and her "I can't quite get a grip on my cat-like insticts" storyline just never gripped me. I also remember an issue where Hellcat helped out and Tigra acted very, well, catty towards her. Hey, catty, I get it! Her feelings of uselessness with the Eackos before she joined the Wackos also just didn't grab me. Anyway, I found her useless both in terms of personality and powers. Y'know, she was just such a train-wreck. Have I read or heard somewhere that she was intentionally introduced (the first time) in order to show that not all heroes are cut out to be Avengers? Sort of as an object lesson? If not, it surely looked that way. And then, ye gods, Englehart could NOT commit to a consistent way to use her in WCA, and she became an awful joke of a character who we were clearly supposed to feel for-- but couldn't possibly relate to. The whole insatiable-sexual-appetite thing was simply FAR too squirmy an angle to take in a comic book that visually looked like DC Comics in 1963. Even then, if Steve's scripting of WCA could have been even a shred deeper and subtler, it might have come off okay. But she was just used and written badly throughout. Ugh. Hmm-- still like her loads better than Dr Druid, though. Better than several of the lower-regarded also-rans, in fact. HB |
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 13, 2014 9:05:35 GMT -5
Y'know, she was just such a train-wreck. Have I read or heard somewhere that she was intentionally introduced (the first time) in order to show that not all heroes are cut out to be Avengers? Sort of as an object lesson? If not, it surely looked that way. HB Her run on the Avengers most definitely looked that way. I'm not sure why she was brought onto the Wackos, however, but probably not to explore that storyline. At the risk of going slightly off topic, I wonder why Englehart brought Firebird on board. She reminded me of Jocasta - sort of hanging around, helping out, and nobody thought to make her a member until it was too late. Hawkeye's recruitment attempts at the Thing were amusing, though. |
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Post by spiderwasp on Jan 13, 2014 16:34:11 GMT -5
I also remember an issue where Hellcat helped out and Tigra acted very, well, catty towards her. Hey, catty, I get it! I remember that well. It was in Avengers 305 (Cover date July 1988) when all existing members gathered (They could all fit in one room back then. Now they can barely fit in one building) and Tigra treated Patsy like crap, referring to her as the new kid. I could possibly buy that if it had not just been very recent (WCA 16, Jan 1987) that the two characters had worked together and then hung out for a day of boating and relaxing. They were clearly very friendly and Patsy had Tigra's complete approval for wearing the costume. What happened in those 2 1/2 years to change the tone? Not a darn thing. Just lousy writing. And yes, I do look those issues up. I don't just have all the cover dates memorized. lol |
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 14, 2014 11:25:55 GMT -5
I also remember an issue where Hellcat helped out and Tigra acted very, well, catty towards her. Hey, catty, I get it! I remember that well. It was in Avengers 305 (Cover date July 1988) when all existing members gathered (They could all fit in one room back then. Now they can barely fit in one building) and Tigra treated Patsy like crap, referring to her as the new kid. I could possibly buy that if it had not just been very recent (WCA 16, Jan 1987) that the two characters had worked together and then hung out for a day of boating and relaxing. They were clearly very friendly and Patsy had Tigra's complete approval for wearing the costume. What happened in those 2 1/2 years to change the tone? Not a darn thing. Just lousy writing. And yes, I do look those issues up. I don't just have all the cover dates memorized. lol You should have left your last sentence off. I was just going to compliment you on your memory! LOL |
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Post by wundagoreborn on Jan 15, 2014 9:29:59 GMT -5
One point here. For me, Tigra was just there. Never cared when she joined, nor when she left.
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Post by humanbelly on Jan 16, 2014 20:00:28 GMT -5
Why does this Tigra thread keep pulling me back? I can't quite just set it aside. . . and I don't even have any truly strong feelings about her. . .
I think, like a lot of the WCA run under Englehart, there was the germ of a very interesting idea for character exploration there, and somehow Steve had completely lost his facility for executing by that time (which I do believe we've discussed else-thread). Tigra took the boy-craziness of an early Janet van Dyne to the obvious (and unpalatable) extreme-- where she was pretty much chasing any attractive fellow in super-pants. Good writing can certainly create an interesting and/or sympathetic character with this flaw (LOOKING FOR MR GOODBAR; or Messalina in I, CLAUDIUS, for instance). I think Steve tried to finesse that with Greer's sometimes-panicky fear of what she was turning into-- but it was directionless, inconsistent, and doing damage to other characters that we did care about.
A sex-addict needs intervention and resolution just as much as a drug or alcohol addict does-- and I don't recall that taking place. Would we keep reading about Tony Stark if he never crawled out of that bottle? Heck no-- he wouldn't be interesting. . . he'd just be pathetic.
Also-- take that away from Tigra's "personality profile", and what the heck is she? What makes her a unique person or superhero?
Possibly her lack of being innately brave or heroic? I dunno. Not a lot of "character" to be found in the character, I guess.
And Firebird was definitely more interesting upon a re-reading of the series, Ultron-- you're right. Completely missed boat, there-- and she would of course have been a HUGE foil for Tigra's exploits-! Geeze, I would have enjoyed reading that much more than inexplicable trips to that inane Cat Dimension and what-not.
HB
(Let it go. . . gotta let it go. . . )
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 17, 2014 10:38:18 GMT -5
Also-- take that away from Tigra's "personality profile", and what the heck is she? What makes her a unique person or superhero? Possibly her lack of being innately brave or heroic? I dunno. Not a lot of "character" to be found in the character, I guess. Even this can be fine, if it's well done and not overdone). I remember developing a soft spot for Invisible Kid 2 in the Legion of Super-Heroes, because he reacted the way a normal person, suddenly thrust into a superhero role (as he was) would react. It made him seem more human to me. With Tigra, it just became pathetic and annoying. And Firebird was definitely more interesting upon a re-reading of the series, Ultron-- you're right. Completely missed boat, there-- and she would of course have been a HUGE foil for Tigra's exploits-! Geeze, I would have enjoyed reading that much more than inexplicable trips to that inane Cat Dimension and what-not. HB (Let it go. . . gotta let it go. . . ) You're right. I wonder if Firebird could have cleaned up Tigra's act. Time for some fan fiction.  |
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Post by sharkar on Jan 23, 2014 13:45:27 GMT -5
Bob and Carol and Ted and...Tigra?! ;D   |
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pym
Reservist Avenger
"About 20 yards to my right…"
Posts: 200
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Post by pym on Jan 23, 2014 19:44:25 GMT -5
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Post by humanbelly on Jan 23, 2014 21:42:10 GMT -5
Dyan Cannon as Tigra, eh? That. . . is a solid bit of casting, Shar!
Ah, and there's old Robert Culp, bless 'im. Having just discovered "I Spy" in the past year or so, I can't believe he wasn't a bigger star over the course of a long career. He and Cosby both exhibited an astonishing range of abilities in a show that ran the gamut from broadly comic to deeply, intensely human.
(Lordy, what a tangent!)
HB
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