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Post by Shiryu on Dec 21, 2008 17:33:42 GMT -5
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Post by Shiryu on Dec 16, 2008 19:12:15 GMT -5
To be fair, having written a similar sort of book just 3 months ago, I can tell you that the process of proofreading is nightmare-ish For example, we triple and quadrichecked, then there would be a graphics change and all of a sudden they would use a old version of the file, or do something wrong during the copy and paste, or decide to fix things alone to save time, and a new list of mistakes would appear. You correct those and they do some further changes to the graphics, adding a new picture or shifting things around, and still new mistakes pop up. Then word decides to change the auto-correct to a different language, or Xpress (the pagination software) splits/deletes/edits words by its own accord. The editorial proof-reading is usually done on the plain text from word file, hence before the graphics is added and several of these mistakes occurr. Then after checking it 3 or 4 times, it becomes difficult to proofread again focus on each individual word, and more mistakes go unnoticed. Obviously, given the value and type of book, there still should't be many or any, but having been on the other side of book writing, I can now tell what a frustrating process the proof-reading is.
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Post by Shiryu on Dec 12, 2008 18:32:27 GMT -5
And it's "spinal cord", not "spinal chord" -- pretty sure that's not a musical part of the body. Nice one ^^ Next time, I'll tell my patients they have sciatica due to a trapped string ;D
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Post by Shiryu on Dec 12, 2008 18:29:32 GMT -5
I have a feeling you never convinced your mother to bring you to that shop again ;D
I'm still debating on my favorite year, but in terms of anecdotes, I remember that my mom bought me possiby my earliest Spider-Man after bringing me to the dentist, as a reward for being brave there ^^ It must have been 1990 or 1989
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Post by Shiryu on Dec 12, 2008 18:19:47 GMT -5
Great points everyone! Regarding the huge creative spurt, what do you think prevented the writers to produce similar ones in following periods as well? Did they play safe by relying a lot on the previous creations and giving their take on them, or was the "spurt" due to the fact that the Marvel Universe had to be built almost from scratch in the early Silver Age? If we take Spider-Man for example, many more new villains were introduced in the first 40 or so issues than ever again.
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Post by Shiryu on Dec 12, 2008 18:11:51 GMT -5
Since we have the nth Avengers title hitting the shelves soon(er than most of us wanted), what do you think we should do with Dark Avengers board wise? (no, burning all the issues in a pyre is not part of the poll ^^) We have a separate section for every Avenger book so far, shall we make one for DA too, or edit the title of another section to add it (something like "New Avengers and Dark Avengers")? Final decision is Van's of course, or mine in case we don't see him before DA 1 comes out, but I thought it would be interesting to see what everyone thinks
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Post by Shiryu on Dec 12, 2008 18:06:21 GMT -5
icavalieridellozodiaco.myfreeforum.org/images/smiles/lol.gif [/img] That's perfectly put ^^ I found the issue just so boring. And seeing Doom and Loki somewhat ordered around, in one instance even menaced by Norman Osborn was quite depressing. The final dialogue between Doom and the stubby porn actor is the only thing that saved the book a bit (bust just a bit) for me.
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Post by Shiryu on Dec 12, 2008 17:53:07 GMT -5
Pretty cool issue for me too, things appear to be getting in motion. By the way, does anyone know what happened to the zombies (Spidey, Cage, Giant-Man ecc) who were teleported away at the end of Marvel Zombies 2? Did they appear somewhere else or is that storyline still without its finale?
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Post by Shiryu on Dec 12, 2008 17:49:29 GMT -5
Amazing Spider-Man 580, out a couple of days ago, sports a story by the old style team composed by Roger Stern and Lee Weeks. As a big fan of Stern during his Spider-Man and Avengers runs, I'm very happy to see him on one of these books again ;D
The letter page says they will be back for a 3 issues arc involving the Juggernaut next year (Stern wrote the first meeting between Spidey and Juggernaut in the 80s), and also has a reference to our own Adrian J. Watts, whose letter is not published but mentioned in the final thanks.
Personally, I'm looking forward to this arc now. Even the story in 580 is pretty nice, considering it looks like last minute filler.
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Post by Shiryu on Dec 12, 2008 9:16:16 GMT -5
Happy birthday to the Evil Dr'Bolty And a belated one to Bobc and Tone-loc
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Post by Shiryu on Dec 12, 2008 9:08:10 GMT -5
Time and time again, while discussing Marvel's (and superhero comics') past, the Silver Age has come up as almost everyone's favourite period. So, what is it that makes us like it so much? what's everyone's reason(s) for preferring to what came afterwards? In short, what's so special for us about the Silver Age? Were the stories generally better on average? was it because there were less characters but with more focus on them and not much had been tried yet, so everything looked new and original? Was it Kirby's and Romita's presence? Stan's stories? Could it be because many of us started reading comics with silver age stories, or during the silver age? Let's discuss
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Post by Shiryu on Dec 9, 2008 12:33:30 GMT -5
I totally agree, word for word. Couldn't believe that's Namor...
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Post by Shiryu on Dec 9, 2008 12:25:51 GMT -5
I agree, nice idea! But without the Marvel Chronicle I don't know what happened when, outside the big books. Is there any website showing a similar overview?
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Post by Shiryu on Dec 8, 2008 21:44:17 GMT -5
For me, it was mediocre. There were some disappointments, but also some pretty good titles that I really enjoyed. To put it down like Starfoxxx did, it would be Disappointments: Thor, Secret Invasion, War World Hulk, MA, NA, One more day Favorites: Spider-Girl (I can't believe they are closing it!! ), Incredible Hercules, Superman & Batman, Initiative Surprises: American Dream, Marvel Zombies, Avengers/Invaders, to some extent Cap and Brand new day, some one shots like Thor, the truth in history. So overall I still think the era just before Heroes Reborn was worst than this, with clones and weird art in most books. The main thing I would really change is this "event after event after event" trend, which is getting tiring to follow.
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Post by Shiryu on Dec 5, 2008 4:23:11 GMT -5
Nice list, Spiderwasp. I found particularly interesting the Green Goblin in front of Flash or Jean Gray, it might be a bit too high but it certainly highlights the importance of the character.
11-20 for me
11) Wonder Woman. I've never been a fan, but she has been very important for the empowering of women in comics.
12) Thor. How to succesfully mesh mythology, epic battles and superhero stories. He would be a bit higher if not for the several down periods his book has had over the years.
13) Dr. Doom. Quintessence of the comics' villain
14) Lex Luthor. He is for the DCU what Doom is for the MU
15) Sub Mariner. One of the oldest Marvel characters, and prototype of the villainous hero
16) Donald Duck. If Mickey is Superman, Donald is Spidey. A very human character, whose weaknesses have always made him more popular than the other one. He also had some great work done on him by the likes of Carl Barks and Don Rosa.
17) Alfred. Possibly the best supporting character in comics' history. His golden age personality was unsufferable, but later on he developed in a very interesting chactarer, juxtapposed to Bruce.
18) Tony Stark. One of Marvel longest running characters, and possibly the first major one to introduce alcoholism in comics.
19) The Vision. There are several senzient robots in comics, but no-one quite like him.
20) Scrooge McDuck. Don Rosa's "Duck Dinasty" alone deserves him at least this place.
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Post by Shiryu on Dec 5, 2008 4:01:54 GMT -5
I wasn't too impressed with the book either. Jan's death doesn't carry any sense of drama at all, it's totally uneventful, almost as if Bendis didn't want to kill her, but had to to increase the impact of the story. She's there one panel, gone the other, and no one really seems to care besides Hank.
I'm also uncertain towards Mockingbird return. Are we supposed to believe that the one who died such a long time ago has been a Skrull all along?
On the bright side, Hank's reaction at seeing Thor, Thor's words with Iron Man and the ending. While I can't see Norman Osborn being the leader of a group having Loki and Dr.Doom (and the whole thing looks like Acts of Vengeance), I appreciate his increasing role in the Marvel Universe. For decades he has only been a Spider-Man villain, but over the last few years his role has considerably widened.
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Post by Shiryu on Dec 5, 2008 3:50:04 GMT -5
I didn't like this book initially, but I came to appreciate it gradually, especially from the end of the first arc onwards. It could be the best thing coming out of Civil War. I still wish they would remove that "Avengers" in the cover though ^^
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Post by Shiryu on Dec 5, 2008 3:45:11 GMT -5
Good point, I hadn't noticed the smaller claw. I can't see Black Spidey's jaw though, and he looks smaller than Venom (or at least than what Venom used to look like. I don't even know if he is still Eddie Brock or not).
So it looks like the next NA lineup will be Spidey, Cage, Wolverine, Spider-Woman, Ronin, Ms Marvel and Captain America II (whom I still can't bear to see pointing a gun in battle...). And there's no trace of Iron Fist, Dr. Strange and Echo. I'll probably miss the first, even though he was totally underused during his tenure, but adding Bucky Cap is an interesting choice, I can see him fitting in this group.
I also wonder if the leader will still be Cage or Ms Marvel
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Post by Shiryu on Dec 4, 2008 18:42:24 GMT -5
Is it just me, or there are too many Spider-Men and Wolverine? I suppose the original are the ones in NA, so who are the other ones? And Hawkeye? It's also interesting that "Dark" Spidey and Wolvie wear their darker costumes, opposed to the usual, more colourful ones.
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Post by Shiryu on Dec 3, 2008 20:33:23 GMT -5
Good thing I suggested to start from the bottom Ok, I'll give 10 at the time. I excluded manga characters, since they are not present in the Empire list either, probably because manga and comics are considered as slightly different concepts. 1) Mickey Mouse, simply because he has the greatest popularity of them all. While Superman or Spidey are very famous in the Western world and Japan, Mickey is famous all over the world, and it has recently been calculated that his readers are to be counted in the billions. While I definitely prefer Donald Duck or Uncle Scrooge in terms of Disney characters (and they will be in the list later on), Mickey Mouse was the first to come and so deserves the first price. 2) Superman. Not my favourite, but is for superhero comics what Mickey Mouse is for Disney, the first and most famous of the characters. 3) Spider-Man. Is the face of Marvel, and has had one of the deepest impacts in the world of comics. I always find it interesting, for example, that the Death of Gwen Stacy is considered one of the landmarks for the passage from the Silver to the Bronze age. 4) Batman. Not much to say. I have a feeling he is more popular than Superman, and he certainly has more merchandising. A very unique character 5) Fantastic Four. Comics' first family, Stan Lee's first Marvel creation, and much more. 6) The Peanuts. Not a fan, but their strips are just rooted in the history of comics. I've never read one or seen the cartoon, and yet I know who Charlie Brown, Snoopy and Piperita Patty are. Since there aren't many characters I could say the same about, I think they deserve the top 10. 7) The Joker. Unique, just like Batman. I'm not a tremendous fan of him, and he has changed quite a lot over the years, but still a very peculiar character. I've always thought that, try as they might, they could never create a villain quite like him at Marvel. 8) Lois Lane. I didn't think about her at all to begin with, but Dlw's comment is spot on and she deserves a place. 9) Mandrake. I don't know if he was the first magician in comics, but it certainly feels like that for me. When I think about magic, he comes to mind much sooner than Dr. Strange or others. 10) Captain America. At times very unpopular abroad, but still an extremely important character. He was there before even Stan Lee was, and over the years has always highlighted the ideals that a hero should strive to stick.
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Post by Shiryu on Dec 3, 2008 20:11:15 GMT -5
I had seen similar numbers some months ago. As far as I know, NA has always been selling better than MA, which I think it's due to a combination of Bendis as writer and Spidey/Logan as members. As much as we don't like it, adding those two to the book has made the series skyjump like Quesada had planned, which is also why I think it's unlikely that either will quit for the time being.
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Post by Shiryu on Dec 2, 2008 5:46:45 GMT -5
Pure subjectivity I'd say. If for example you consider the Joker the best/most prominent comic villain, feel free to put it as high as you want, even if you put Superman in front of Batman and Luthor last or not in the list.
After all it's not just one villain that makes a character great. If you like Superman's personality or general supporting cast more, or if you think he has had a greater impact in the world of comics, or yet it you think Batman has one good villain and many bleh ones, while Superman has a larger number of not too bad ones.
In other words, as you prefer, as long as the choices are motivated ^^
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Post by Shiryu on Dec 1, 2008 17:19:21 GMT -5
That's exactly why I suggested to start from the bottom ;D
This way, we are a bit forced to think the list trough, rather than producing the top names and then having to stop and wonder from 15/20 down
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Post by Shiryu on Dec 1, 2008 17:12:02 GMT -5
The fact that I like them ^^ I think that some characters have become iconic, and this grants them a certain leeway with most older readers, and probably several younger ones too. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Spidey, the Fantastic Four, Cap, the Avengers etc, have all been around for so long, in an industry where failure usually means cancellation, that you feel almost compelled to try them, even if just to see if they are worth their fame or not. Moreover, these characters are part of the popular culture now. I doubt there is a person in the Western World who doesn't know who Superman or Spider-Man are, even if he has never read a single book of their (theirs? them? ) So for me longevity is literally how long a book has lasted over the years. After all, the big companies don't keep titles up just to please the readers, but because they sell, and if a book has been around some 40 years, it means that even without ever going stellar, it's been holding its own. This is different from a book having a sudden burst of popularity lasting 3-5 years and then disappearing, like the Punisher did in the 70s. Tastes change, and what's fashion and popular now may not be so tomorrow. I consider the test of time much more important on the long run. The only exception to this is probably when a book/character produces a change in the industry, with effects outlasting even his own popularity. But this is the matter for another topic I suppose ^^
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Post by Shiryu on Dec 1, 2008 16:59:28 GMT -5
I echo everyone's comments, especially Dlw's and Doom's. I can see Superman as first (but it's interesting that according to 78% of voters he should have been lower), but Spidey 5th? behind Wolverine and Constantine?? No Flash, Thor or Mickey Mouse/Donald Duck (whose world fame could possibly be greater than even Superman's), guys like Emma Frost, Venom and some I didn't even ever heard of made it, and Cap and Wonder Woman are pretty much half way. So, what would out top 50 be? Starting from, say, positions 50-40, who would we put?
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Post by Shiryu on Nov 30, 2008 11:40:30 GMT -5
For my part, I like the book, but would like it much more if it wasn't Captain America. IE the very same stories (well, as close as possible at least) but without having someone else as Cap. For me, Cap is and will always only be Steve Rogers, and I'm a bit worried that the huge success the title is having now will prompt the heads at Marvel to further delay his return.
But I suppose that, taking the "Cap element" aside, the book is pretty good. Good combination of action and plot development, some interesting ideas and characterizations.
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Post by Shiryu on Nov 30, 2008 4:55:15 GMT -5
It looks like some short time ago, Empire did a list of the top 50 greatest comics characters and put it on its website www.empireonline.com/50greatestcomiccharacters/default.aspMarvel and DC are the most represented companies, but others have their fair share too, and each page has a brief comment and some trivia. What do you think of this list? would you add someone or move people up/down?
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Post by Shiryu on Nov 27, 2008 16:57:53 GMT -5
It's a good point, and it feels a bit like a double edged sword. The Avengers have many title because, perhaps for the first time ever, they are one of Marvel's best seller books.
I haven't really been enjoying the books and their main writer for years now, but it seems that the choices of putting Bendis there, or having Spidey and Logan in the main lineup have been paying off in terms of sales. As a result, the Avengers have been central in the last 3 big events, and played a large part in House of M.
The movies are also going in the Avengers direction. Unlike the X-Men and Spidey franchises, which seem to be in heading towards sunset, the Avengers have had a bright start with Iron-Man and are moving towards two likely to be succesfull movies with Cap and Thor.
Sadly, it once agains looks like quality and quantity can not go hand in hand, and so we are having this inflation of Avengers titles, most of which have little or nothing of the Avengers as we knew them. Then again, sometimes good things come out from unexpected places, so who knows. Hopefully it will be the case with ours truly too ^^
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Post by Shiryu on Nov 27, 2008 16:40:04 GMT -5
Welcome back, Tony!
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Post by Shiryu on Nov 27, 2008 16:38:46 GMT -5
So, the couples are
Hawkeye and Mockingbird Vision and Scarlet Witch Wolverine and someone I don't recognize Yellowjacket and Wasp Daredevil and Eletra
I'm definitely rooting for Vision/Scarlet or YJ/Wasp, but considering the writer it wil probably be Wolverine or Hawkeye. Daredevil is not even a NA, why would his reunion been shown on an Avengers book?
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