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Post by Shiryu on Apr 18, 2017 7:19:47 GMT -5
Wow, now I know that time really does fly. I had a look at my last post here and it's dated 25th of March... 2014! And here I thought it certainly couldn't be more than a couple of years at the most. I left the boards for what was supposed to be a short break, but eventually became an indefinite leave of absence. Work and other duties kept me away but, to be honest, the lack of activity I saw here every time I had a glance also didn't motivate me to return, until eventually I lost touch. I'm sorry to see now the boards completely deserted. This was never the liveliest of communities, but it had a good core of knowledgeable members with a genuine wish to discuss comics. I suppose the lack of new members and the rise of social media making forums obsolete eventually told, but it's still a pity as, at their best, the AA boards were a great place to be. Anyway, what prompted me to return is that, having a bit more time on my hands, I have created a little blog on Marvel Comics. For the past few years I have been collecting most volumes of the Epic Collection series of reprints, and recently I was asked to submit a short profile for the anniversary of the Marvel Appendix Project website. Enjoying the experience, and wanting to write in English a little more as I was getting rusty, I basically had a "oh, what the heck" moment and set up the Age of Marvel Comics blog. If anyone's reading and would like to have a look or say hi, it's at ageofmarvelcomics.blogspot.it/You can take the comics away from the boy, but you can't take the boy away from the comics, eh?
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 25, 2014 6:29:27 GMT -5
I suppose Odin and co might have been patterned after the kings of old. They reached a position of supreme power because of their birth, and eventually it's gone to their heads (I've recently been reading about Henry VIII and it was a very similar story). The funny thing is how everyone keep calling Odin "the all-wise"... Man, though-- I might pick up these Omnibi (Omnibusses??), Shir. They do sound like a great way to enjoy the Thor history that I've missed out on. HB They are indeed really really good, every story and cover has been recoloured, panels are clearer and they even print letter pages. Be aware of two caveats though - they are massive, about 800-900 pages, so not the easiest thing to read - their retail price is expensive. Thor's omnibus #2 was $99.99 on Amazon. You do, however, frequently find it heavily discounted, especially if you don't mind second hand (about $55 currently). I have #1 and #2, but I'm not sure I'll be getting #3 when/if it comes out. A cheaper, easier to handle alternative would be the Epic Collection, which I'm also starting to collect. As you can see from the link, they don't print books in chronological order, but randomly, so it's good if one's interested in specific sagas.
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 24, 2014 17:18:53 GMT -5
Let's go on, this time with Thor #126-130
Thor and Hercules have a titanic battle across the streets of NYC and appear equally matched. As they fight on, using everything at their disposal, we get a good view into their respective characterizations, with the far more immature and fun-loving Hercules not understanding why Thor takes everything so seriously instead of using his own powers as he pleases. Thor however feels Herc is headstrong, but not evil. Meanwhile, in Asgard, Odin has decided the right punishment: to divide Thor's strenght in half. He doesn't, however, have the heart to do it himself, so he relinquishes the Odinpower to his trusted (and never seen before) advisor: Seidring the Merciless.
Now, the first, FIRST thing everyone working online learns is you never ever give your admin password away to someone else, because then they can log you out permanently if they so wish. Odin obviously never went to IT classes and missed this lesson, as the first thing Seidring does after punishing Thor is to keep the Odinpower for himself (and why would you trust someone called "the merciless" anyway?). As a weakened Thor tries in vain to resist Herc, only to be defeated by the demigod and laughed at by the fickle crowd, Seidring takes power, freezing most Asgardians in one way or another. Thor, pondering what to do with his life now, travels to Asgard and discovers all that's happened. A battle with Seidring follows, with the latter unleashing attack after attack on a weak but resilient Thor. Why he doesn't simply take away the other half of his power, or send him across space, or do anything more effective than casting flames and water I don't know, but Thor's determination and spirit of sacrifice wins the day: he threatens to unsheath the Odinsword and put an end to the whole cosmos unless Seidring returns Odin his powers. It's a ruse, but Seidring chickens out and Odin is restored to full power, and left to hug his senseless son, "the noblest Asgardian of all".
Over the next few days, Thor slowly recovers in Asgard, tended by Balder. On Earth, we get to meet Pluto, disguised with sunglasses and a white jacket, working on a set for an Hercules movie. Hercules himself doesn't recognize him (Pluto must be wearing Clark Kent's spare glasses) and agrees to star in the film, signing a contract which turns out to bind him to rule the netherworld for all eternity. Apparently, Pluto was tired of it and wanted out... except he already is out, being on Earth, so perhaps the job comes with once-in-a-millennia week off, or something like that. Anyway, whilst Herc is trying in vain to fight his way out of the hole he has digged, a healed Thor appears for a rematch, only to end up fighting at his side having learned of what has happened. Pluto decides to play smart and goes to Zeus (who's watching a dance, of all things). Zeus can't overrule the contract, but allows for a champion to fight for Hercules... as long as one can be found. To cut a long story short, Thor ends up being that champion, as he willingly walks in the netherworld and fights horde after horde of enemies, armed with the most disparate weapons. It's a battle of quantity vs quality and a truly great one, as we are treated of several pages of archers, foot soldiers, war weapons, flame throwers and all sorts. In the end, Pluto can't stand seeing his (former) realm in tatters and gives up, tearing up the contract and freeing Herc. The Olympian is grateful: from this day forth, he and Thor will be friends.
Meanwhile, on Earth, Jane Foster has found a housemate named Tana Nile (sadly, not our long missing fellow member though). Upon discovering that Jane is a friend of Thor, Tana, who really doesn't need a house anyway and could easily move anywhere else, thinks isntead it's a good idea to send her away, so "Thor will spend time searching for her". This trick is right on page 1 of your "how to antagonize a Thunder God" book...
Tales of Asgard Lot's of running around, but nothing really of consequence, except for the introduction of Harokin (who looks so much like Thor that the thunderer somehow dies his own hair to look like him).
Despite the silly ending, the Thor/Hercules saga is my favourite of the whole Omnibus. Herc is such a fun loving character that it's difficult not to like him, and he works greatly as a stooge for the more melodramatic Thor, taking some of his "heaviness" away. Both their own fight and the battle in the netherworld are once again very well-choreographed. I hadn't realized it in the past, but Kirby does have a knack for making clashes look varied and different, using everything that's around (terrain, object, weapons, buildings) to great effect. Stan meanwhile writes a very noble and profound Thor. It's a very different Thor from the somewhat more savage, viking-like one we are often presented now, and I would say a far more likeable one too.
Sadly, for all the good that Lee's Thor is, his Odin is a mess. He spends half his time berating or punishing his son for no real reason, and the other half praising him, only to forget it all soon after. I get that Stan is trying to transpose the father/son relationship most readers - or indeed teenagers - probably had, but it doesn't really work. At all. Especially since often his actions backfire against the whole of Asgard, putting lives in danger. Were he a real person, he would have long been deposed by the raging masses. As it is, it's hard to see Odin as a good king, let alone a good father.
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 22, 2014 18:44:17 GMT -5
Thanks Shiryu, great explanation! One more question though......they both had hammer's. I assume Thor had Mjolnir......what about Thunderstrike? ? Yes, and actually Thunderstrike was both the name of the mace and of the character. It was created by the dwarves and gifted to Eric by Odin much like he gave Stormbreaker to Beta Ray Bill in the Simonson run. Unlike BRB though, I seem to remember it was stated that the mace didn't make Eric quite as strong as Thor, possibly because of his weaker human nature compared to Bill, who had been modified by the Korbinite race to be very strong of his own account.
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 21, 2014 17:40:13 GMT -5
maybe you can help me with what happened with the Eric Masterson Thor taking over, and then who/what was Thunderstrike? I missed that stuff, I had just stopped buying comics around that time. IIRC, Masterson was a civilian Thor had befriended during his time as Sigurd Jarlson, when his secret identity consisted of him tying his hair in a ponytail and working as a carpenter on construction sites. Masterson was eventually wounded and had to be merged with Thor to save his life. Some time later, it looked like Thor had killed Loki, so he was banished forever, and Masterson became the new Thor to protect the Earth in the original's place. It should be in this guise that he took part in Galactic Storm, showing a lot of raw power, but lacking experience and confidence. Eventually, Loki was revealed to be alive and the original Thor was brought back, but Masterson kept his powers and decided to carry on as crimefighter. To distinguish himself from Thor, he changed his costume and took the name Thunderstrike. Sadly for him, it didn't last long as he was killed not too long afterwards.
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 20, 2014 14:50:28 GMT -5
But I'm writing here to comment on the great line-up in this issue: one of the most powerful line-ups up to the point (1992), and possibly ever (the Busiek/Perez reboot complete team and Avengers/JLA teams are impossible to beat, of course) Check out this team from #347- Cap Iron Man Thor Clint as Goliath Vision Scarlet Witch Hercules Black Knight Wonder Man Captain Marvel II Starfox Quasar Sersi Crystal Living Lightning That's indeed an extremely powerful line-up. Was there any catch though? For example I seem to remember Thor was the less powerful/skilled Eric Masterson here.
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 20, 2014 14:37:36 GMT -5
Happy Easter!
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 17, 2014 17:36:25 GMT -5
I'm sloowly reading through the second Thor Omnibus, collecting #121-152. There's some great stuff, some epic stuff, some funny stuff... and some truly wacky stuff. Here goes some quick summaries / comments.
#121-125
Thor battles the Absorbing Man all across New York. AM is, of course, being empowered by Loki, who was supposed to be the captive of some wizard named Ularic, but is, in fact, planning his nth attempt to conquer Asgard and get rid of his brother. Thor and Crusher slug it all out for several pages, and we are given a nice insight on Thor's battle skills. Today, he is often regarded as being merely really strong, but early issues do a good job at highlighting his speed, strategy and skillset. He has a couple of chances to defeat his foe, but hesitates, afraid that shattering AM in his glass form would kill him. It will be later revealed that Crusher can survive almost anything, but it was very in character on Thor's part to hold back. Eventually, Loki decides the time is right to take AM to Asgard, so he can help against Odin, and convinces him to cooperate with a quick magic display. Now, one has to wonder why the Absorbing Man, a creation of Loki, could stand a chance against Odin, who is far more powerful. And indeed, if that's all it would take, why not make an army of Absorbing Men? Oh well...
Crusher is indeed quite useful though, charging through the armies of Asgard. I know Thor is by far the second strongest Asgardian after Odin, but this is ridicolous... again, Loki should have created an army of Absorbing Men a lot sooner. Meanwhile, remember Jane Foster? Thor has rescued her from a hooded kidnapper, who turns out to be a photographer wanting to discover goldylocks' secret identity. He actually manages to do just that and threatens to expose Thor/Don Blake to the world, but a quick trip to the distant future, "millions of years" from now changes his mind. Apparently, Mjolnir can travel through time, an handy power it later lost because of pesky Kang, according to Wikipedia. The reporter asks Thor for one final boon: be taken to Asgard to see it for himself. Now, remember, this is a guy who kidnapped Thor's beloved Jane Foster and held her captive, so the least one would expect is a trip to the nearest asylum, but the Thunderer instead agrees, because the guy is "a brave man, a dedicated man". Hmm...
Back in Asgard, Odin struggles against the Absorbing Man a lot more than Thor did. Thor arrives and offers to help, but to no avail: Odin surrenders his scepter to Loki and Crusher. It is, of course, all a big fat lie: Odin doesn't really need his scepter, he is power himself, and the unhappy couple is sent deep in space. As the Absorbing Man says, the All Father was merely toying with them (although it didn't really look like that, one should never underestimate Odin's acting skills). Nor his being bipolar, apparently, as one moment he's proud of Thor and the next angry at him for taking the reporter to Asgard. If you were wondering, the guy was knocked unconscious early in the fight and, his camera having been smashed, couldn't take any photo of the whole thing anyway. Forlonly, he allows Thor to take him back home.
Meanwhile, some jungle savage from one of those remote Communist countries every Marvel hero had to visit once an year by contract, has got hold of a Norne Stone and is ammassing an army. Don Blake hears about it and wants to intervene, but first he has to take care of a still very shaken Jane Foster. Now, today, when I think of Jane, I see her as a smart, skilled, strong-willed, even brave young woman... but man, was she a dead weight in the early years. Thinking she is losing her mind and imagining things, she tells Don to leave, until he reveals his secret identity to her. But even this is not enough, as she asks Thor never to leave her side ever again. Talk about selfish. Thor must really see a lot in her and agrees, unaware that Odin has seen everything and is not happy. "There must be a reckoning".
Still, after some soul searching, Thor does go to battle the guy from the jungle, scoring an easy win. He takes the Norne Stone back to Asgard, where Odin has him attacked by a million warriors, Balder included. Goldylocks proves once again that Asgard's army is really just for show and fights his way back to Earth. Odin probably realizes he has been paying a monthly wage to useless warriors for a few millennia and is even less happy than before.
Meanwhile, on Earth, Jane Foster has met Hercules, who, having been introduced in an early annual, has just been sent among mortals by Zeus and is having a great time chatting up ladies, eating at posh restaurants and punching felons. Incredibly, even Herc is smitten with Jane and offers her a drink. Thor arrives to find them chatting happily and wonders what's Asgardian for cuckold, especially as Jane berates him for leaving her for "long, lonely hours. Empty, endless days". Instead of realizing he might just have dodged a bullet and celebrate, Thor decides to fight Herc over Jane.
Tales of Asgard
Thor leads a crew of Argonauts on some mission to postpone Ragnarok. Loki stages a mutiny, but Thor's side wins, thanks in large part to the efforts of Hogun, Fandral and Volstagg, making their first appearance.
So, what to say here? This is Silver Age in a nutshell, I can almost envisage Stan telling Jack "Thor fights the Absorbing Man, make up the rest". The action is top notch, fights are really well-choreographed and Thor does much more than just throwing his hammer around. Kirby is clearly having fun with the characters and backgrounds, and Colletta's inks aren't actually too bad for a change, albeit a little stiff. The main problem here is with the plots themselves, as they do not stand up to close scrutiny at all. I don't mind too much, because for the most part it's fun reading, but there are far better Thor stories out there. Odin and Jane Foster are heavily stereotyped: the former is only all-seeing when it comes to punishing Thor for one thing or another, the latter is almost unbearable and one would really had to wonder what Thor saw in her back then.
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 17, 2014 16:23:30 GMT -5
My favorite Pietro panel from WCA Annual #1 Englehart really had a thing against marriage, didn't he? HB (I think) recently commented on the Hawkeye/Mockingbird divorce in WCA, and on how it was handled, pondering wether Englehart was going through marriage issues himself. This panel certainly points in that direction. Maximus' warping Pietro and Crystal's minds is a retcon I have mixed feelings with. Quicksilver's over the top reaction was certainly excessive, almost maniac, and did indeed benefit from some further explanation, considering his many years as a hero and Avenger. But Crystal's cheating on him is more like human nature, flawed and sad, but still possible without needing the explanation of outside influences. It does, after all, happen a fair deal to ordinary people (but in case anyone is wondering, no, I don't support cheating on one's spouse in real life ).
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 17, 2014 16:12:34 GMT -5
Whoops, sorry, my bad. I meant that Wasp is the last *human* alive on Earth.
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 17, 2014 12:40:46 GMT -5
What exactly is happening in this issue? What happened to Thor and Cap from #17?? AGGGGHH. At the end of #17, Cap was killed by the Grim Reaper and Thor failed to stop one of the Celestials from destroying the Earth, just about managing to survive himself. Shortly before that, all mutants had been kidnapped and placed on stasis, to be the sole inhabitants of the new world the twins were about to create. Wasp is the last mutant still alive, having been in space when it all happened. Here we see what's happening x years after #17. Apparently Wasp and Havok got together and are trying to go back in time and save the Earth, whilst Magneto is obviously happy with the mutants-only policy of the twins.
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 13, 2014 12:09:18 GMT -5
Aaand here I am. I'm starting with the latter story(ies) from WCA #2 and Avengers annual #16, being my favourite of the lot.
For starters, the idea of an annual baseball game between the two teams is just genius. It makes little sense from a real world point of view - as Clint states, it makes them all very vulnerable to attacks - but it serves to highlight the friendship and friendly rivalry between the two teams. And it's nice to see them having fun for a change, instead of fighting for their lives against one enemy or another. Still, happy times do not sell comics, and so we quickly shift to the main story. Having the two teams fight each other seemed a bit cliched, especially given how most of them don't really try to talk things out with their respective foes. It does look like a way to fill a few extra pages and give fans something to talk about, as the most extablished characters usually win. While I liked Thor giving the obnoxious and arrogant Wonder Man of this period a sound beating, my favourite bouts were Dr Druid vs Tigra and Hawkeye vs She Hulk, whilst Wasp losing to Hank Pym and his gadgets seemed a little silly, and I also don't really see Captain Marvel (Monica) losing to Iron Man. It looked like the Wackos had to score a couple of wins, since the story was taking place in their own book. So, overall, part one is good fun but not the most memorable story ever. The art doesn't help either. Whilst I've stated several times how much I like Milgrom, he looks better when inked by Sinnot and some panels look rushed, making the book a bit inconsistent.
Part two, where the assembled teams face the legion of Death is much better, possibly one of my favourite stories ever, one that really packs a punch. What strikes me is how easily most of the heroes die... we are often treated to supervillains who are described as deadly but never achieve anything (I'm looking at you, Death Adder), and to heroes who get hit by just about anything and shrug it all off. Not so here: broken necks, Wasp crushed to death, Monica torn apart, Hank stabbed in the back... it's vicious, almost what if-like, but works wonders to make the story far more dramatic than usual, a bit like it happened in the final chapter of the Korvac saga. I should also add that it's not gory or graphically upsetting, in fact, most scenes are rather touching either because of someone's death, or because of the effect it has on everybody else. Not that all of them make complese sense though... could Bucky really kill the Wasp with a single punch? Talking of Bucky, it's funny how most of these "dead" villains were infact revealed to be alive and well later on. Considering how out of characters some of them are, I suppose it's fair to imply these were copies created by the Grandmaster, and not the real thing. Has it ever been clarified anywhere?
And then we have the wonder scene of Hawkeye challenging the Grandmaster to a game of chance... and winning by cheating. That's just so in character with Clint, he has just lost his wife and yet he finds a way to smirk and win the day. His characterization is a lot more faithful here than in some WCA stories, and indeed in many modern day stories. He has definitely sufferend more than others from the current tendency to make characters grim and gritty.
The only downside, once again, is the art. I'm not a fan of having multiple artists on the same story, especially if they have wildly different styles, and this annual looks even more inconsistent than WCA a#2
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 13, 2014 10:52:32 GMT -5
A belated thank you everyone, especially to Shar for the wonderful graphics and flawless Italian!! Not much in the way of comics, but two cakes to make me happy
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 7, 2014 7:45:19 GMT -5
Let the Golden Realm rejoice, because today we celebrate wondrous Sharkar's birthday!!! Many happy returns
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 1, 2014 16:09:32 GMT -5
I was re-reading some old Thor issues, when Jane Foster puts up an ad for a housemate, and the person replying happens to be Tana Nile, bent on Earth's colonization (and who really doesn't need a flat anyway). She sends Jane away, and on a plane Jane just happens to run into a man working for the High Evolutionary who has need of her and basically kidnaps here.
Just what are the odds?
I remember this plot device was not unfrequent back in the day. Jean Gray took Misty Knight as housemate for a time, and Peter Parker shared his dormitory with Captain Britain. Can you think of any other instance like this?
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 1, 2014 12:09:45 GMT -5
Cool!
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Post by Shiryu on Mar 25, 2014 17:37:27 GMT -5
I choose: Colonel Mustard with the candlestick at the library...! No, wait, wrong scenario... . Lets rewind: I choose (as long as Shiryu has them available) Avengers Annual # 15, West Coast Avengers Annual # 1, Avengers Annual # 16 and West Coast Avengers Annual # 2. Lol, Colonel Mustard would indeed be a problem xD I have all the annuals mentioned, so it's not a problem for me. Off we go, 2 weeks as usual. And, as usual, if there's any problem, just drop me a pm Not to my knowledge. Both characters haven't been used all that much, especially together.
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Post by Shiryu on Mar 23, 2014 18:08:50 GMT -5
10 to 30 issues would have been far, far too much, even though I'm sure there would have been very little talking and plenty of interwining events. Still, it's such a wide range, I know they were used to make things up as they went back then, but 20 issues would involve a lot of making up... hard to see how it wouldn't damage the main storyline or take it off course. As a side note, time to move on to our next reading. WB hasn't been around much recently, so I'll leave it to Dr. Bong to decide what we read and discuss next (as long as that's not a problem for WB of course). Good Doctor, you are up
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Post by Shiryu on Mar 12, 2014 20:21:14 GMT -5
You know, I'd honestly rate this run over the Kree-Skrull war every day of the week Is this what's known as bear baiting? Gh! To be honest, it's part to do with how much I like Stern's arc, and part to do with how little I like the K-S War. Perhaps it's because I read it so many years after its original release, with its impact and scope having been inevitably diminished by successive, bigger stories, but to me it got pretty dull after an interesting beginning, and suffered from a very uninteresting - almost messy - finale. If the other topic went beyond five, I could almost find it a place in my worst-10-Avengers-stories list... just not my cup of tea.
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Post by Shiryu on Mar 10, 2014 6:54:10 GMT -5
I just never in my life thought I'd ever hear such an abundance heart-felt, proud, fond, thoughtful praise for Stern/Milgrom/Sinnott run of The Avengers-! Even as someone who doesn't share that opinion by a long stretch, I find it incredibly charming-- and it's really made me look at this particular arc with a much more appreciative eye. Move over, Kree/Skrull War! Take a hike, Korvac Saga! Call in sick, Mansion Siege! Sooner or later, Marvel's gonna strike reprint GOLD with this, er, gem--! You know, I'd honestly rate this run over the Kree-Skrull war every day of the week
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Post by Shiryu on Mar 6, 2014 14:17:25 GMT -5
Here I am. As I've stated many, many times, Milgrom was the artist when I first started reading Avengers, so in many ways in my opinion his is the definitive look of the characters. I do however agree with HB on Sinnot's contribution, something I've become more aware of during his run on FF, where he made Byrne's characters look far more muscular and handsome - two traits well visible with his Avengers. As for the writing, what I liked the most is that it's fun. The Avengers are having a good time, go to parties, play with each other, mess around a bit and so on. Hercules remarks this directly in #250, and it serves to highlight the underlying friendship within the team.Not that it's all fun and games though - the Vision was at his creepiest and his smile is indeed so nuanced to be a tad disturbing, and Cap was having a particularly rough time in his own book, in what's probably my favourite arc of his. And, IIRC, in #250 Iron Man is in fact Rhodey, even though the thing is never mentioned in the story. Starfox is a character I've always liked. Again, happy personality, inspired look and an unusual power set. But I agree with Wasp when she feels a little unconfortable after learning of his "pleasure powers", it's the kind of thing that could get creepy very easily, and probably wouldn't pass scrutiny in this day and age, which is why we see so little of him now (I remember reading he had to be defended from a rape accusation by She-Hulk a few years ago). In his own way, he is actually not very different from Moondragon from this point of view. Moving on to the story, Maelstrom and his lackeys are somewhat uninteresting villains, I was, and still am, far more interested in the enigmatic Death Urge, even though his eventual arc with the Great Lakes Avengers will be disappointing. The Eternals aren't very compelling either, even though some of them have inspired designs. Sersi is a nice character, and I did like when she became a regular member during the jacket area, but she is still not that memorable, and the whole Uni-Mind thing does look like an easy way to get rid of most of them. More in general, I often feel that Marvel's hidden races leave something to be desired... for one thing, there are too many of them (Eternals, Mole Men, Lava Men, Deviants, Atlanteans, Inhumans, Lemurians and who knows how many more), and for another they just serve as convenient plot device when a random army / weapon / power source is needed. I do however like the complicated history of the Marvel's Earth, especially after having read this website: reocities.com/Athens/Olympus/7160/wicksint.html (anyone else knows it?) Funnily enough, issue #249 is my favourite of the whole lot. The combined forces of Avengers, FF and Asgard fighting the armies of Surtur adds weight to the Surtur Saga taking place in Thor's own book, and justifies both his departure from the group for the time being, and the merry return of Hercules (Hogun: "he is nearly as mighty as Thor"; Herc: "no, I'm mightier"). When they switch back, it will be under more tragic circumstances, after the Mansion Siege storyline, and moving on towards a darker, grittier set of stories (at least by those standards). I also liked the two Avengers teams united in #250, everyone with their own thought bubbles. It gave Tigra a nice little spotlight. As someone (Ultron? Starfoxxx?) said, Captain Marvel / Monica can be difficult to handle given her enormous powers, so I liked that it fell upon one of the weakest Avengers to shake her out of her fear. They are uneasy, but to me it was hard to tell whether it was because of the Eternals' self-righteousness, or of their power level. They certainly don't attempt to speak up in the Deviants defense or to have them morphed back to living beings.
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Post by Shiryu on Feb 24, 2014 20:58:43 GMT -5
Great choices! I actually do have that SVTU as well as all the Avengers issues, so I could send them over if needs be. Totally up to you, Ultron, which of the two to choose Once the choice is finalised, if anyone needs the books, just drop me a pm as usual. Thanks Shiryu! I think I'll go with Avengers #246-250 this time. If this thread has legs enough to last for a second go -round, then I'll go with the Attuma story. I'm hoping it has legs for 200 go-rounds! Avengers 246-250 it is. These were some of the very first issues I've ever read, and the source of my appreciation for Milgrom's art, it will be nice to read them again. Considering that it's about 100 pages, I'd say we extend the reading time by an extra week, so everyone has a chance to take part.
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Post by Shiryu on Feb 23, 2014 14:08:01 GMT -5
Sure, I can do that. I'd had in the back of my mind an Attuma story in Avengers #154-155 that I have fond memories of, but it crosses over into Super-Villain Team-Up #9 and also, I think, Avengers Annual #6 a bit (though one could make do without them) and probably not too many people have those issues, so I'll have to think of something else and get back to you. Great choices! I actually do have that SVTU as well as all the Avengers issues, so I could send them over if needs be. Totally up to you, Ultron, which of the two to choose Once the choice is finalised, if anyone needs the books, just drop me a pm as usual.
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Post by Shiryu on Feb 20, 2014 15:59:12 GMT -5
Hi,I've never actually been on a forum before so feeling a bit shy here.I've just turned 17 and am called the Avengers nerd in school.I'm preparing to go to college to study science so cool loads of teachers here. I'm from England and got into the Marvel stuff when the first Xmen movie came out.So was 13 but I used to watch the cartoons when I was little.I have been collecting the Xmen & Avengers graphic novels for a few years and love them.I hope on here to just meet people who are like minded.I'm looking forward to talking to everybody. I also hope I have posted this properly.Sorry if I haven't. Hello and welcome here, great to have someone new and so young joining. Whereabout in England are you from, if I can ask? Hope you'll have a good time here. It can get very quiet at times, but things always pick up again eventually.
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Post by Shiryu on Feb 20, 2014 15:53:35 GMT -5
Time to move on again. Wundagoreborn, whenever you want, the stage is yours AACK! I've been bombed by work and weather-related schedule disruptions. I haven't had a chance to read the last selection, much less think about the next one. Can I have a pass? With apologies, w Sure, we can swap you and Ultron if it works for both
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Post by Shiryu on Feb 17, 2014 17:28:12 GMT -5
Best Avengers stories 1) Avengers / JLA 2) The Mansion Siege 3) The Kang Dinasty 4) Korvac Saga Worst Avengers stories 1) The one with Hank and Jan having sex 2) The Crossing 3) Secret Invasion 4) Disassembled Best Writers 1) Busiek 2) Stern 3) DeMatteis 4) Gruenwald Best Artists 1) Perez 2) Romita Sr 3) John Buscema 4) Al Milg... no, just kidding King Kirby Dang! I had forgotten them or they would have been my 4th.
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Post by Shiryu on Feb 17, 2014 17:20:02 GMT -5
Time to move on again. Wundagoreborn, whenever you want, the stage is yours
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Post by Shiryu on Feb 11, 2014 16:40:13 GMT -5
Interesting! Let's see
Heroines: 4) Storm 3) Scarlet Witch 2) Black Cat 1) Wasp
Heroes: 4) Vision 3) Captain America 2) Thor 1) Spider-Man
Teams: 4) West Coast Avengers 3) Fantastic Four 2) X-Men 1) Avengers
Villains: 4) Red Skull 3) Loki 2) Baron Zemo 1) Doc Doom
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Post by Shiryu on Feb 11, 2014 6:47:11 GMT -5
For the record, I missed this latest club reading due to work being hectic lately and I could've sworn that I had these FF issues in my collection but my run started off with #245. Darn my poor memory...... Well, we still have some 4 or 5 days on this reading, and you do have them now BTW, next in the picking line is Wundagoreborn.
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Post by Shiryu on Feb 10, 2014 21:39:03 GMT -5
That's right, that's right-- I do remember now what bothered me so much about all of this. The whole "weed out the weaker races as a natural function of the universe" really didn't sit well with me at all back then, and as an older, more experienced (wiser?) individual now, I find it nothing short of repellant. . . and really have to take Mr. Byrne to task for it. The resolution of Byrne's plot hinges on the readers (and the entirety of sentient life in the story) accepting what he presents as a fundamental "truth" of the (Marvel) universe-- that it's okay and necessary for Galactus to go around eating planets and killing trillions of people, 'cause really, that's gonna be better for the universe in the long run. Gets rid of the deadwood, so to speak. This, quite frankly, is a point of view that is absolutely chilling in its callousness and arrogance, and reflects just horribly on John Byrne himself. My hope is that he simply didn't think through the ugly implications he was making-- as I'd prefer to chalk it up to carelessness, rather than to the workings of a mind that would see this as a viable justification for (there's no other word for it) serial genocide. The "Natural Force" defense is inane, because Galactus is a sentient, free-willed being-- he's not a tornado or comet or black hole that wreaks havoc on a purely local level. He's an extraordinarily powerful, god-like being that sustains himself on the life essence of those less-powerful than him. The only. . . ONLY. . . relevant factor in determining whether an entire race is "worthy" of survival is if they happen to have the physical might (or perhaps extreme cleverness) to fend him off. That's it. It has nothing to do with their potential or their spiritual life or whether they're good, bad, or in-between, or to what point their society has evolved. It's a completely arbitrary and definitely false justification. . . and to my mind is a particularly vile form of evil, as it justifies its actions w/ a false, self-serving premise that provides an inarguable excuse for these enormous crimes. Why does it bother me so much? Well, take it out of the macro setting of the "Universe", and shrink it down to the more manageable setting of "the Earth"-- and then use the identical (and some implied) phrases ("Weak races need to be weeded out", "It's for the greater good of the country/empire/planet", "Galactus (God) is beyond the concerns of such creatures", "The needs of the powerful One outweigh the needs of the less-powerful Many", "It's nothing personal", etc, etc, etc) and use them to explain the genocides and massacres and enslavements of black Africans, of Native Americans, of the indiginous peoples of South & Central America, of the European Jews during the Holocaust (and throughout history), of the Rwandans, and on and on. I mean, intended or not, this is a direct metaphor for those atrocities, and JB pretty much says in so many words: "It's okay, it's just the natural order of things." "HB, for heaven's sake, it's only a comic book." Nope-- nope, don't buy that argument at all. When presenting ideas an any literary format, the author has a responsibility to those he's speaking to. Especially when that writer is clearly nurturing aspirations for expanding the ideas being bandied about in his chosen format, and is looking to elevate them. The ideas being communicated are the meat of any format. . . of any method of artistic expression. Trying to hide behind an "Oh, I didn't mean nothin' by it. . . it's only a comic, anyhow. . . just kidding around" type of disclaimer is simply unacceptable. BOY! I did not realize until I started writing here how strong I truly felt! Golly. . . HB It does strongly sound like social Darwinism, doesn't it? As a "man of science" I have to admit Byrne's point - whilst certainly awful - isn't entirely wrong... one of the first things we were said in college was "take out war and disease, and humankind won't last a hundred years". However, the big but is that Galactus can't be considered under a Darwinian light, as neither does he "judge" races based on potential, culture, power, goodness or any other meter, nor can he be stopped by conventional means. Worlds can't evolve to avoid or overcome him anymore than men could evolve to overcome the sun going nova. Once it happens, that's it. Also, going back to more in-story reasons, the universe already has its appointed judges: don't the Celestials check, double-check, triple-check worlds and then decide on their destiny? It seems a far fairer method to keep life under control than simply letting Galactus loose.
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