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Post by goldenfist on Dec 4, 2008 9:15:35 GMT -5
Here's what Ign had to say about Secret Invasion #8.
There seem to be two basic types of Secret Invasion readers at this point in the series. Either you've been enjoying every issue since the beginning and you've been eagerly awaiting the final chapter, or you've grown disillusioned with the whole enterprise and are just following along to see what all the Dark Reign-related fuss is about. I've tried to keep a stiff upper lip and remain optimistic about Invasion, but I've found myself drifting farther and farther into the second category in recent months. This may be Marvel's big event comic of 2008, but after the resounding disappointment that was issue #7, I'm only following along now in hopes that the payoff was worth the arduous journey.
I've pointed out numerous times how Invasion seems to follow Brian Michael Bendis' approach to pacing for House of M. Last issue, for instance, was the big battle royale between opposing sides. It even culminated in a last minute cliffhanger that I assume was meant to leave readers biting their nails for the next six weeks. Unfortunately, the Wasp glowing purple and emitting black smoke isn't exactly a cliffhanger on the level of "No more mutants." It's not really a cliffhanger at all until you know what is actually going on. The answer is both predictable and not terribly interesting.
In any case, on the whole this issue finally breaks from the familiar sense of pacing, though that isn't necessarily a good thing. For a good long while this issue carries an almost aimless quality. The big battle is all but over within the first few pages, yet Bendis still has some two dozen pages left to fill. There are isolated moments in this issue that work well enough. A few lines of dialogue here and there, and a handful of action sequences. I'm thinking of one sequence in particular where Bendis actually shuts his characters up and allows the art to tell the story for several panels in a row. In these cases, where the responsibility falls squarely on the shoulders of Leinil Yu and the rest of the art team, Secret Invasion becomes the enjoyable experience I expected all along. I have to credit Yu and, especially, his colorist Laura Martin. This series has become an increasingly glaring disappointment but it could have been much worse without these gorgeous visuals.
Unfortunately, there's just so much that doesn't work here. The wrap-up to the invasion is succinct and unsatisfying. For a long time it seems as if there won't be any real consequence from this storyline. Bendis offers up the obligatory sacrificial lamb, but I'll be amazed if anyone bats an eye at the loss. Other questions are answered, particularly what happened to missing characters like Jarvis and Spider-Woman. But again, it all wraps up too easily and neatly. Until the very final pages, I would have sword even World War Hulk did a better job of offering lasting change to the Marvel Universe.
In the end, it's these final few pages that offer up the only real interesting story material to come out of the entire event. Bendis has set forth a chain of events that could easily revitalize a number of books. Or it could all go further south. It all depends where he and his fellow writers go from here. I'm genuinely interested in what Dark Reign holds in store for my favorite heroes. I just have to wonder - if Joe Quesada really approved Secret Invasion on the basis of this final reveal, what was the point of all this? The end result could have been accomplished in any number of ways without resorting to a drawn-out crossover that dominated many books for the better part of a year. Instead of being a legitimate threat with lasting implications on the heroes of Earth, the Skrulls were just a means to an end. I'm glad Marvel seems to be taking a break from line-wide event storylines for a while. If Secret Invasion is any indication, they need to fundamentally rethink their approach.
Review Score: 6.6 Passable
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Post by Shiryu on Dec 5, 2008 4:01:54 GMT -5
I wasn't too impressed with the book either. Jan's death doesn't carry any sense of drama at all, it's totally uneventful, almost as if Bendis didn't want to kill her, but had to to increase the impact of the story. She's there one panel, gone the other, and no one really seems to care besides Hank.
I'm also uncertain towards Mockingbird return. Are we supposed to believe that the one who died such a long time ago has been a Skrull all along?
On the bright side, Hank's reaction at seeing Thor, Thor's words with Iron Man and the ending. While I can't see Norman Osborn being the leader of a group having Loki and Dr.Doom (and the whole thing looks like Acts of Vengeance), I appreciate his increasing role in the Marvel Universe. For decades he has only been a Spider-Man villain, but over the last few years his role has considerably widened.
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Post by goldenfist on Dec 5, 2008 9:35:48 GMT -5
Well the Skrull Invasion is finally over now Marvel's next event
is War of Kings with the Inhumans.
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Post by Dr. Hank Pym on Dec 5, 2008 13:38:20 GMT -5
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Post by spiderwasp on Dec 5, 2008 14:09:56 GMT -5
There are so many flaws here it's not even funny. Every time I think Bendis' writing can't get any worse...
1. Jan's death served no purpose. I wasn't even clear on what the Skrulls were trying to do. I guess her growing big and spurting out energy was supposed to kill everyone but with one brief swing of Thor's hammer, it just fizzled. Once again, Bendis is the king of the anti-climax. Plus, I've already mentioned how ridiculous it was for her to fall for the growth potion anyway since she already had used growth powers right before Bendis took over the book. Not that he lets things like history get in the way.
2. In the midst of things, doors open on a ship and all the captured heroes emerge. This is expained with one quick sentence. "It says here that Stark was able to everride the tech with his tech, at least enough to get into the one ship and take control of it." No search for the missing - just one quick deus ex machina and they're back.
3. The ship's arrival was almost identical to the one in the first or second issue. Then everyone was afraid it was suspicious of everyone who came out because they could just be Skrulls. Now, even though they were in the heat of battle and couldn't have possibly known that Stark was responsible for bringing the ship there, everyone suddenly threw all suspicions aside and just accepted.
4. All it took was taking out the leader and suddenly the whole battle just ended. The rest of the Skrulls just stopped fighting. Kind of reminds me of the end of Civil War. When the current writers feel that it's time for an event to be over, everyone just stops fighting.
5. Just because Norman Osborne gets off the final shot, the stupid United States gov. decides he should be in charge of defense now. Oh brother.
I declared a while back that I would finish up Secret Invasion and then stop reading anything by Bendis. With the total mess he's made over the past few years, I guess it's only fitting that his last big act (For my reading purposes anyway) was to kill another of my favorite characters pointlessly. Goodbye Bendis! I won't miss you.
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Post by Dr. Hank Pym on Dec 5, 2008 15:01:21 GMT -5
spiderwasp: Don't fret just yet (But still...  ) because Mighty Avengers #20, according to the cover, just might provide good closure, in the sense that Jan is alive and well. Let's just not get our hopes up, though... Right when one of my favorites comes back (Hank) the other one dies (Jan). Bah!  |
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Post by Doctor Doom on Dec 5, 2008 18:30:27 GMT -5
While there are a lot of problems, there are actually quite a few reasons for Osborn to be picked. In the 'Thunderbolts' tie-ins he has been shown leadin g the Thunderbolts to save New York, making 'heroic' speeches, rallying the heroes etc. Then the battle comes, a Thunderbolt takes down the Hank-skrull as it was wreaking havoc and it's Osborn who takes down the Skrull Queen while Tony Stark runs away with his tail between his legs. So yeah, while there's a lot of problems, I think Osborn's ascension makes sense. (It makes even more sense when read in wider context, though this isn't necessary- Osborn is also attributed with having recently stopped the Spider Tracer Murders over in ASM, being very very chummy with the favoured candidate for next mayor of New York and is believed to have been staggeringly successful with the T-bolts.)
The Death of Wasp gets no reaction from me because I expected it since SI 7- but I agree, very poorly handled, very little reaction. Especially since she was so unimportant in 'Mighty Avengers' and Yu actually forgot to draw her in the first few issues of Secret Invasion.
While SI was underwhelming, I must admit to being excited about Dark Reign. The 'Dark Avengers' look to be VERY interesting now as Osborn's new 'evil' Avengers team, Thunderbolts is being rehauled, 'Mighty Avengers' gives us a real Avengers book again without losing the appeal of 'New Avengers' for those of us who enjoy it.... and our heroes are fighting villains again, just like everyone wanted. (And not just any villains- the elite of the elite.) I'm hopeful the days ahead will be a lot of fun.
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Post by Tana Nile on Dec 5, 2008 21:49:29 GMT -5
So the point of the whole Skrull invasion, which supposedly Bendis had in mind since disassembled was to....set up another event? This whole thing has been underwhelming, to say the least. The situation, with Osborn in charge, is even more contrived than anything from Civil War. And Shiryu got it right, feels like Acts of Vengeance part II is coming up. I can't even bring myself to care about Wasp's 'death', since that's such a meaningless concept any more. I guess the one good thing I can say about this is that at least I could understand what was going on. I have no idea what the hell Final Crisis is about.
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Post by starfoxxx on Dec 6, 2008 18:04:34 GMT -5
SI #8, what a mess.  I'm with spiderwasp. I think I'll give New Avengers till #50, then i'll drop it, but my New year's resolution is to stop wasting $$$ on Bendis books, and replace his titles with the books i've recently got hooked on, like Guardians of the Galaxy, FF, Wolverine, and Hulk. |
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Post by spiderwasp on Dec 7, 2008 0:07:22 GMT -5
I've just come up with my own theory regarding the deaths of Captain America and the Wasp. Before Spider-man 3 came out, Marvel made a point of returning Sandman to villain status and brought him to the forefront for a few issues, then made an even bigger deal out of reviving the black costume. I'll bet that shortly before Captain America: The First Avenger, we will see the return of Steve Rogers and the same will happen with the Wasp before she makes her film debut in the Avengers movie.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Dec 7, 2008 8:03:38 GMT -5
I've just come up with my own theory regarding the deaths of Captain America and the Wasp. Before Spider-man 3 came out, Marvel made a point of returning Sandman to villain status and brought him to the forefront for a few issues, then made an even bigger deal out of reviving the black costume. I'll bet that shortly before Captain America: The First Avenger, we will see the return of Steve Rogers and the same will happen with the Wasp before she makes her film debut in the Avengers movie. I've mentioned this before, but.... I'd be very sceptical of that. Several reasons, really. Firstly, to counter what you said- Sandman was returned to 'villain' status nearly a decade ago. He reappeared around the time of Spidey 3 in the minor side title 'Friendly Neighbourhood', but writer Peter David has admitted that it was his idea inspired by the movie, as opposed to an editorial mandate- though the black costume certainly was. However, for better or worse, the comics are increasingly ignoring the movies- probably because movies help TPB sales, not comic sales. So I wouldn't invest too much hope in your theory- not trying to be mean, just practical. In fact, other than Black Suit Spidey, the 616 very, very rarely has any reflection on the movies. (Except a miniseries or whatever on the side). For example Hulk, Iron Man, Fantastic Four 2, X-Men 3 etc... during all of those movies, the comics were involved in long running storylines with TOTALLY different status quos from anything seen in the movies- particularly Hulk. |
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Post by woodside on Dec 8, 2008 22:54:05 GMT -5
I'm back! I've been out of the loop for a while, since my comic budget is pretty much nothing these days. I did manage to pick up Secret Invasion # 8, though, while picking up some comics for my nephew (he's 10 and addicted to Essential Spider-Man).
I just finished reading all eight issues and here are my first impressions:
First and foremost, while the limited series holds together well, I can't help but feel that the issues of New Avengers and Mighty Avengers are completely necessary to reading this. They flesh out so many sub-plots -- including Captain Marvel, Marvel Boy, Skrulljacket, Wasp, Spider-Woman, etc. If I have the chance, I'll read it all together and see how well it works.
Secondly, while "Secret Invasion" was a pretty enjoyable read, I'm fairly disappointed by it. Wasp's death was mundane and pointless -- not a strong send-off for this character at all.
Osborne's usurping of Tony Stark just seemed to come out of nowhere. The man I voted for wouldn't put that loon in charge of the world's safety, I'll tell you that much. And as much I'm interested in seeing what will happen with all those bad guys (the "evil Illuminati"), I'm not nearly interested enough to stick around for "Dark Reign." And seriously -- why would a super-villian reformation program be put in charge of running a super-hero organization?
The ending is a disappointment. What's the fate of Luke and Jessica's baby? What about Tony Stark? And Mockingbird? Cliffhangers are one thing, but this one just has too many.
In the end, "Secret Invasion" is a far cry from the greatness that was "Civil War," but it's certainly better than the horrendous "Disassembled." It's biggest problem is lack of focus; there are too many plot threads going in and WAAAY too many coming out.
I'm really not sure if I'll be picking up New Avengers, Mighty Avengers, or really . . . any Avengers titles.
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Post by woodside on Dec 8, 2008 23:01:56 GMT -5
4. All it took was taking out the leader and suddenly the whole battle just ended. The rest of the Skrulls just stopped fighting. Kind of reminds me of the end of Civil War. When the current writers feel that it's time for an event to be over, everyone just stops fighting. I'll argue this a bit. In terms of "Civil War," Cap commanded everyone to stand down. It wasn't "Holy crap, Cap's been captured, let's stop fighting." He actually told them to pack it in. And, well, not everyone did -- Luke and co. certainly didn't listen. As far as Verenake being killed, it could be said that since she was their Supreme-Space-Pope-Lady and since the rest of the Skrulls were getting their butts handed to them, it does kinda make sense. No command = get the heck out! |
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Post by spiderwasp on Dec 8, 2008 23:26:08 GMT -5
I'll argue this a bit. In terms of "Civil War," Cap commanded everyone to stand down. It wasn't "Holy crap, Cap's been captured, let's stop fighting." He actually told them to pack it in. And, well, not everyone did -- Luke and co. certainly didn't listen. You are correct but my comparison wasn't intended to be about the motivations of the characters as much as the anti-climactic endings. Both "Big events" built up to supposedly climactic battles that both just fizzled. The reasons for the fizzling differed but the end result was the same. |
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Post by woodside on Dec 8, 2008 23:32:01 GMT -5
I'll argue this a bit. In terms of "Civil War," Cap commanded everyone to stand down. It wasn't "Holy crap, Cap's been captured, let's stop fighting." He actually told them to pack it in. And, well, not everyone did -- Luke and co. certainly didn't listen. You are correct but my comparison wasn't intended to be about the motivations of the characters as much as the anti-climactic endings. Both "Big events" built up to supposedly climactic battles that both just fizzled. The reasons for the fizzling differed but the end result was the same. Truth . . . Side-note: If you read all of the tie-ins in ye ole reading order and follow the final battle that way, you get a better sense as to why Cap surrendered. I don't mean to pick, spiderwasp.  I just loved Civil War. |
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Post by starfoxxx on Dec 9, 2008 16:01:24 GMT -5
Question. Why does Wolverine even wear a costume anymore, since he always appears without it anyway, or HIS costume gets ripped to shreds while the other heroes' don't?  Another Question. We know that Black Bolt was impersonated by a Skrull. Where was the real Black Bolt, and why wasn't this dealt with in Secret Invasion (to my knowledge) |
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Post by Doctor Doom on Dec 9, 2008 16:17:42 GMT -5
Question. Why does Wolverine even wear a costume anymore, since he always appears without it anyway, or HIS costume gets ripped to shreds while the other heroes' don't? Good question. As far as I can see, he tends to appear in-costume in the X-books and in his civvies outside them... Umm... he was where all the other 'real' heroes are. We clearly see him among the others emerging from the Skrull ship in SI 8. Black Bolt's situation was apparantly dealt with more in SI: Inhumans. |
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Post by spiderwasp on Dec 9, 2008 18:08:20 GMT -5
I don't mean to pick, spiderwasp. I just loved Civil War. And compared to Secret Invasion, so did I. |
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Post by spiderwasp on Dec 9, 2008 18:22:21 GMT -5
Umm... he was where all the other 'real' heroes are. We clearly see him among the others emerging from the Skrull ship in SI 8. Black Bolt's situation was apparantly dealt with more in SI: Inhumans. Uhmm, beg to differ. I think you may be looking at the guy on the far right of the panel when the heroes emerge but, if you look again, that isn't Black Bolt. There's no tuning fork on his head and there's at least one other guy back there in the same outfit (He must hate showing up late for a big event like that and there's someone else in the same outfit.) I'm not sure what kind of uniform it is. It's different from the SHIELD agents and the H makes it sort of look like Hydra but that wouldn't make much sense. Maybe someone else can identify. Anyway, Black Bolt was being held on a separate ship because the Skrulls were planning to use his voice as a weapon. He was rescued by the other Inhumans in Inhumans: Secret Invasion. |
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Post by woodside on Dec 9, 2008 19:04:08 GMT -5
Hydra was infiltrated by the Skrulls as well in "Secrets and Lies." Y'know, the um . . . ninja one.
The first ninja one.
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Post by Tana Nile on Dec 9, 2008 23:36:07 GMT -5
You might also notice in the far right of that spread, it appears that Elvis has re-entered the building...
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Post by freedomfighter on Dec 10, 2008 1:55:38 GMT -5
Oy did I have a lot of problems with this...
First, I don't read Thunderbolts so I had no idea how and why Norman Osborn has become such an influential figure that he would be standing right next to the heroes with no problem, like they wouldn't want a heavily medicated villain with a big gun standing right next to them...
And wasn't he killing Atlanteans during Civil war because of his imbalances? Bet that won't come up during Dark Reign ("hey Subby, I know I killed yo peeps, but hey it's all good, we all bad guys, right?").
I can go on and give examples about how choppy and scattered Bendis' storytelling is, how he doesn't seem to understanding basic storytelling, how to build suspense, how to have a good dramatic payoff (I mean the whole Thor vortex thing for example, is just so matter of factly done, it's absolutely mundane), but I'll only be preaching to the choir in most cases and others will not see it at all.
Not worth more than the mention at this point.
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Post by woodside on Dec 10, 2008 11:45:50 GMT -5
I was looking the issue over and there are some pluses here. Actually, the "smaller" scenes are the best ones. Thor/Iron Man/Cap breaking up again . . . the Young Avengers scene . . . the reunions were nice too. And wasn't he killing Atlanteans during Civil war because of his imbalances? Bet that won't come up during Dark Reign ("hey Subby, I know I killed yo peeps, but hey it's all good, we all bad guys, right?"). He was being controled by Tony Stark's nannties. And I think Namor might know that. Plus, c'mon, Namor plays dirty somtimes. |
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Post by freedomfighter on Dec 10, 2008 12:22:28 GMT -5
I was looking the issue over and there are some pluses here. Actually, the "smaller" scenes are the best ones. Thor/Iron Man/Cap breaking up again . . . the Young Avengers scene . . . the reunions were nice too. And wasn't he killing Atlanteans during Civil war because of his imbalances? Bet that won't come up during Dark Reign ("hey Subby, I know I killed yo peeps, but hey it's all good, we all bad guys, right?"). He was being controled by Tony Stark's nannties. And I think Namor might know that. Plus, c'mon, Namor plays dirty somtimes. Does Namor know that? And besides all that, the last thing Namor is know for is a reasonable and fair approach. He's the poster boy for flying off the handle and overreacting. This is the dude who ripped off Master Khan's head when he got angry... |
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Post by starfoxxx on Dec 10, 2008 17:40:57 GMT -5
Thanks for the answers to my questions, guys.
At least Civil War (kind of) clued the reader in on what was going on in the crossover titles (mostly because the crossovers I read were mainly rehashings of what went down in CIVIL WAR proper). SI was such a mess. You would think Black Bolt's fate would have been touched on in the main series, since it was such a big deal early on. I guess you really had to spend a fortune on all the crossover titles. I'm glad I didn't, and I wish I could get back the $32 I blew on this turd of a "mega-event".
Oh, and Bendis' characterization of Namor in that Dark Reign preview is atrocious, did he ever read a Marvel comic in his life???
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BigDuke
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 136
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Post by BigDuke on Dec 11, 2008 9:49:52 GMT -5
As much as I disliked how this played out, the end of the fight does make some sense (though a lot of other things didn't)
The queen set in motion the "doomsday device" implanted in Jan once she realized they had lost. The skrulls stopping the fight and trying to escape makes sense. Only a fool fights in a burning building.
No amount of hype will get me to try anything else by Bendis. Dark Reign and Dark Avengers hold no interest for me. I will continue to get NA because I like the characters (even if poorly written) and Bendis does seem to try to do a good job on Cage and Spiderwoman. Though I am looking forward to the day someone else takes this book over too.
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Post by sharkar on Dec 11, 2008 18:56:50 GMT -5
Right when one of my favorites comes back (Hank) the other one dies (Jan). Bah! Awww, don't worry, Doc Pym; Hank is now free to find a quantum of solace in the arms of...  ![]() |
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Post by Dr. Hank Pym on Dec 11, 2008 21:44:27 GMT -5
Har har har.  Verrrry funny. Rather be Jocasta than Tigra...  |
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I just loved Civil War.
