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Post by bobc on Jul 14, 2009 8:46:15 GMT -5
I think most of us are out of touch due to the thousands of desperate, flailing around plot-lines in recent years. When i read that there was actually a Dark Beast character, I knew the X-Men had jumped the shark and to this day I've only bought maybe five more issues of the X-Men. Nothing I read made me want to start collecting it again.
I agree with Bored Yesterday. Adding to what he said, I have noticed that both the Beast and the She-Hulk are big Avenger fan favorites--two characters who sort of came out of obscurity, making names for themselves in the Avengers. Why? In my opinion it is because both of them are--or were-- so funny. Both of them added levity and light-heartedness to the team. I am all for dark brooding characters, but if you have a team full of them it gets tedious (another reason I stopped reading the X-Men--their incessant self-pity made my stomach churn after a while).
One of the reasons I loved Busiek's runs on the Avengers is that he could actually write DIFFERENT personality types. If you closed your eyes and someone read you the dialogue in the Avengers, you could definitely tell who was speaking in most cases, which is the mark of a great writer.
I think the Beast became popular because the Avengers were the Big Time--very serious--and he just kind of appeared one day and completely changed the chemistry in a good way. I liked how he always felt a little inferior too--it made for interesting stories.
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Post by bobc on Jul 14, 2009 8:29:36 GMT -5
Hee hee! The Salt Lake Avengers!! I envision a sea of possibilities! Oh wait...Utah is landlocked.
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Post by bobc on Jul 13, 2009 15:16:24 GMT -5
See HB? Sharky and I had ingeniously woven complex threads of related information to the original topic, which dazzled you to the point where you were momentarily dizzied. Take a deep breath and simply review our incisive posts, and try to absorb rare insights into all things Marvel.
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Post by bobc on Jul 13, 2009 14:03:49 GMT -5
I'll take full responsibility for the incoherence of this thread. My brain is like a pop-corn popper. Remember there's a thin line between artistic genius and insanity and I am pretty sure I know which side of the fence I landed on.
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Post by bobc on Jul 13, 2009 13:17:04 GMT -5
I like it! That song is a Moody Blues hit that you never really hear anymore, so it's nice to hear it.
My two favorite MB songs are the spooky "Knights in White Satin" and "For My Lady." I'm really surprised the Dungeons and Dragons crowd hasn't discovered "For My Lady"--it really has that Midieval sound and lyrics:
"Oh I'd give my life so lightly
for my gentle lady
give it freely and completely
for my lady"
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Post by bobc on Jul 10, 2009 15:17:22 GMT -5
VERY GOOD!!! I should have known better than to challenge your encyclopedic knowledge of all pop culture! I stand B-slapped!
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Post by bobc on Jul 10, 2009 12:18:49 GMT -5
Yeah I think you're right on that Scott, but being the imaginative guy I am, I look at the "race" of Inhumans as fertile ground for some stellar stories. If everyone is genetically altered, lots of crazy chit could happen! You know, rivals, underground groups, back-stabbing. That kinda thang. I also might delve into a plotline where perhaps the Inhuman's powers might evolve and grow into other powers. Let's face it, Triton needs some serious re-working. I also think having Black Bolt unable to communicate verbally at this point is a real plot stunter. I mean if the Inhumans have technology that allows them to fly to different galaxies, you can't tell me they couldn't come up with some sort of voice decoder thingee that would allow him to communicate.
I can see lots of plots. Nobody's really done much with them
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Post by bobc on Jul 10, 2009 10:11:10 GMT -5
I'll have to check that out, Free. One good thing about Marvel these days is the fact that the Inhumans are getting the high profile treatment. I always like them.
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Post by bobc on Jul 10, 2009 8:26:34 GMT -5
Well Sharker--Queen of Comics Trivia--speaking of "inspired by," do you know the pop culture reference in the title "Days of Future Past?"
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Post by bobc on Jul 9, 2009 13:26:53 GMT -5
I honestly can't follow hardly anything Marvel is doing these days. With all the character dark versions, switched personas, sons of characters, alternate dimensions, ret-conning, Skrulls masquerading as heroes, villains masquerading as heroes--I've really lost interest. Reminds me of the X-Men in the late 80's.
You know I bought 8 comics yesterday and there was only one battle in one comic, and that only lasted a page or two. Did some edict come down that there can be no more battles?
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Post by bobc on Jul 9, 2009 11:10:44 GMT -5
He really said that? I own "Terror of Tiny Town!!" It is a cowboy musical from the thirties starring an all midget cast. It is just awful. I love it!
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Post by bobc on Jul 9, 2009 10:28:07 GMT -5
I've seen the movie "Terror of Tiny Town" --any relation?
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Post by bobc on Jul 9, 2009 8:41:40 GMT -5
Thanks Scott--I kind of lost track of Byrne in the 90's, after reading that Hidden Years stuff on the X-Men, which was pretty bad, and then Spiderman (only read one issue and that was more than enough).
I have had several friends who work in comics tell me that Byrne is a real jerk and that he yells at people on his website--and one friend thinks Byrne has basically lost his mind. Sad, really, for a guy who worked on some of Marvel's best comic runs (early New X-Men) in the 70's.
Is Chris Claremont still around? I heard he and Byrne hate each other--but a lot of artists do their best work while at each others' throats (Fleetwood Mac, Beatles, Labelle, ect). Artists tend to be temperamental
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Post by bobc on Jul 8, 2009 11:36:22 GMT -5
Thanks Scott.
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Post by bobc on Jul 8, 2009 9:57:41 GMT -5
Yeah I had no idea any of that stuff was going on--thanks Scott. I just went back and looked at the covers from that era--and honestly I thought the stuff Simonson wrote was okay up until Gilgamesh and Reed/Sue joined up--and after that I don't really remember many of the stories. You know back in those days I noticed artists waaaay more than writers. One thing that really just struck me was how mediocre a writer John Byrne was. I never really noticed that before. He should have stuck to drawing.
Hey Scott--since you seem to know way more than I do about behind the scenes stuff--what's the deal about Byrne becoming a writer? He never wrote that early X-Men stuff did he? He just drew it, correct? When did he make the jump to writing?
You know after looking at all those back covers and finally taking note of who wrote what, I think Stern is far and away the best writer for the "middle years" of the Avengers, along with Kurt Busiek. Those are the stories that were, to me, extremely memorable.
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Post by bobc on Jul 7, 2009 14:20:07 GMT -5
Yeah you are right--it's not all bad. I really liked the new issue of the resurrection of Captain American--mainly because of the beautiful Fitch artwork. Black Panther has been very good lately. FF is awesome.
Dark Wolverine makes me huffy puffy and I shouldn't project that onto everything Marvel is doing.
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Post by bobc on Jul 7, 2009 9:40:14 GMT -5
You listen to me, little Woodsie. What you describe as looking at something "blindly" is actually 35 years of reading tens of thousands of Marvel comics. I've watched the Wolverine character over-used, injected into every Marvel comic, and now we are getting ANOTHER Wolverine shoved down our throats? We needed TWO? Oh come on. It's not even Marvel Comics anymore, it's Wolverine Comics. I mean I love to eat snow crab legs but I don't want it every meal, day in day out.
What is occurring right now with Wolverine is crass commercilaism at its absolute lowest and if you think I'll spend one thin dime on a "Dark Son of Wolverine" you are out of your mind. As SW says, this whole Dark Mutant thing was STALE, played out, TIRED two decades ago. It is absolutely a perfect example of the creative inertia going on in Marvel Comics, the cheap exploitation of the Wolverine character. and just general suckage.
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Post by bobc on Jul 6, 2009 12:54:19 GMT -5
Okay I bursted out laughing today at the ad in one of my comics. Part of this "Dark Reign" snoozer, is the upcoming Dark Wolverine storyline. Is it just me, or was this "dark" character crap stale twenty five years ago? I stopped reading the X-Men when they started having Dark Prof X, Dark Beast, etc--basically ripping off the whole Dark Phoenix storyline until you were ready to hurl yourself off the nearest skyscraper.
Are writers today even capable of coming up with new ideas? Since when was Wolverine light, anyway? And isn't it true that this Dark Wolverine is Wolverine's son or some ridiculous thing like that--even though we hardly needed a second Wolverine, considering the fact that the original was/is in every Marvel Comic as is.
This is all so tacky. I am starting to feel ashamed to be a Marvel fan
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Post by bobc on Jul 6, 2009 12:43:20 GMT -5
WTF? what is that creature? Do NOT tell me that is seriously supposed to be Namor
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Post by bobc on Jul 6, 2009 9:19:04 GMT -5
I used to call Deathcry Birdbrain. She was such a cheap character.
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Post by bobc on Jul 6, 2009 8:44:32 GMT -5
I loved every issue. I particularly loved when the Rainbow Bridge appeared across Washington DC. Stunning.
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Post by bobc on Jul 2, 2009 16:05:31 GMT -5
uhg. Another good reason to keep dead characters dead!
By the way--I doubt all of those X-Men combined could take on Thor by himself! I agree that even the She-Hulk would give the group a big problem! Now if Jean had her telepathic powers it might be a different story.
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Post by bobc on Jul 2, 2009 15:47:32 GMT -5
Thanks, Scott. I hate when I buy a comic that has two groups squaring off on the cover--only to find they never actually fight. I just bought War of the Kings 5 and the cover makes it look like each Inhuman is going to fight an alien, but it never happens.
I agree that the Avengers would trounce X-Factor back then--but why did Jean Grey only have telekinetic abilities? What was teh deal then? I only vaguely recall that whole series, mainly because I was kinda bored with the X-Men at that point. This was way after the Dark Phoenix stuff, right?
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Post by bobc on Jul 2, 2009 12:15:10 GMT -5
Who won the fight between the Avengers and X-Factor?
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Post by bobc on Jun 29, 2009 13:14:37 GMT -5
Very good list. That Tomb of Dracula cover is the one I'm sure most TOD fans remember best from that time period.
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Post by bobc on Jun 25, 2009 16:51:15 GMT -5
Did you guys hear Michael Jackson just died?
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Post by bobc on Jun 25, 2009 16:36:18 GMT -5
Right Scott. I love that painting of Thor and Odin but the Avengers cover draws your eye expertly.
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Post by bobc on Jun 25, 2009 15:59:31 GMT -5
That's exactly right, HB! The actual story held within that Hawkeye/Ant-Man cover I barely even remember but the cover itself is classic. Another great cover, that is very recent, is the Wolverine vs Hulk cover at #68 on this list. It is simple, direct, but conveys the size difference between the two characters--as well as the attitude--perfectly.
You know what covers I absolutely hated? The Final Crisis DC covers. I go to Austin Books and those rows are just a blur of red ink. Talk about over-selling the cross-over!! I hated that I had no idea which was which without picking up the book and opening it. Good LORD.
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Post by bobc on Jun 25, 2009 15:22:34 GMT -5
When I first started in the art field, I did t-shirt art. And just because I could draw, I felt like I was obligated to draw really complex designs for every customer or I wasn't giving them their money's worth. Eventually I learned that a really good t-shirt design is one that is simple and direct--in fact, the real test was/is if you could "read" the design from a block away. A simple University of Texas t-shirt in Times Roman font will outsell a highly detailed drawing of all the wonders of UT 100 to one.
Why? Because it's simple and easy to read.
This is why the best remembered Avengers covers are the simple ones. The one that jumps into my mind is the cover of Hawkeye aiming an arrow with Ant-Man on the tip. The artist was not the best artist in Marvel's history, that's for sure, but that cover was a Hall of Famer. As much as I grew to hate New Avengers, I have to be honest and say that original cover with the lightning bolts was really, really good too.
Complex art is great for the story itself (George Perez is a great example--you always feel like you get your money's worth with him)--but when it comes to covers, K.I.S.S.
Keep It Simple, Stupid!
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Post by bobc on Jun 25, 2009 15:10:19 GMT -5
Wow--great visual comparison! I was gonna mention before about how the head and feet should tilt downwards as well, but didn't want to be a nit-picker (but notice JB got it exactly right)
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