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Post by bobc on Nov 27, 2006 17:58:59 GMT -5
I don't remember that Oz. Was that in the Avengers? What issue? Which villains were in the Masters of Evil?
Hmmmm--I have zero recall of that. Sucks to be senile.
Ua2--yeah that was a great Pym moment. I remember thinking, after reading that issue, that Hank must be really, really embarrassed that he was the one who created Ultron in the first place.
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Post by Doctor Bong on Nov 27, 2006 18:52:52 GMT -5
Yeah, I know the feeling, bobc, I had forgotten as well about that... But don't be to hard on yourself, there have been other occasions when you have shown that at least some of your memories are still intact & pristine... The issue where Hank singlehandily beats the Masters of Evil (among them Egghead, Moonstone, Radioactive Man & Tiger Shark) must be #229... I went back to check on my collection; now, I don't have 229, but in 230 they are shown defeated at his feet.
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Post by sharkar on Nov 27, 2006 19:05:30 GMT -5
The battle against Dragon Man in #42, the battles against Whirlwind in #46 and #139, and the aforementioned #161. Those were all great!! Issues #42 and #46, along with #93 (no explanation needed for this one right? really showcased Hank's resourcefulness, intelligence and courage. Also, in #42, he reveals he was planning to sabotage Diablo's scheme, despite the danger he would've placed himself and the captured Jan in. This showed he possessed tactical skills and would place the greater good above personal concerns. To the above list I must add #68. Perhaps foreshadowing the later "Dr. Pym" persona, in this issue's climax Hank used his brain and not his powers to help the Avengers defeat--who else?--Ultron. This was Sal Buscema's first issue as penciler of the book and I must say he and Sam Grainger created a very visually attractive version of Hank sans mask...I always liked the way Grainger inked our pal Sal.
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Post by bobc on Nov 27, 2006 19:11:05 GMT -5
229? Okay that explains why I don't remember it. That was part of one of those runs that I found really unremarkable and unmemorable. Oh well.
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Post by spiderwasp on Nov 27, 2006 19:11:06 GMT -5
And let's not forget the time he ventured inside the Vision and fought off his android immune system to save the Vision's life.
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Post by sharkar on Nov 27, 2006 19:36:16 GMT -5
And let's not forget the time he ventured inside the Vision and fought off his android immune system to save the Vision's life. Spiderwasp, absolutely...that's #93...the issue I said needed no explanation but I guess it did... ...so thanks for spelling it out. I concur that it was an indisputably great Hank Pym adventure! It's funny, one of the best things about that sequence --for me-- is Hank's compassion for the ants who are making the expedition with him.
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Post by The Night Phantom on Nov 27, 2006 21:07:07 GMT -5
I voted for Dr. Pym, Scientific Adventurer. That was a time at which, after a long and checkered career, he came to terms with who he was as a man and as a scientist and managed to balance those aspects with his superhero persona too.
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Post by bobc on Nov 28, 2006 10:14:45 GMT -5
Oh yeah--the Vision thing--that was very cool. I loved that jet pack thingamabob that he flew around with. I thought it was cool. I miss the days when being a scientist/superhero was the thing to be! I never thought of it until now but the whole idea of a scientist/superhero seems dead. Back in the sixties, Hank, the Black Panther, Reed Richards and the Beast were always dreaming up some crackpot device that would solve every problem.
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Nov 28, 2006 13:17:51 GMT -5
I recall an interview years ago when Stan Lee said Henry Pym was a character that just never really caught on with readers. The character's due for a revival / rehabilitation, because being in his 30s or 40s now, having come through a failed marriage, lived through his identity crises of youth, and seen it all after a long and varied career -- he's the perfect iconic hero for today's adult comics fans. Give the man a limited series that restores dignity to his character and re-establishes him with his own voice, and we're off to a good start. I'd like to see his hair turned brown to further set him apart from Hawkeye and Steve Rogers. I'd like to see him in his garage tinkering with machinery. I'd like to see him working on a device that can somehow atone for Ultron (but would of course backfire) -- he's due to get some "air time" outside the Avengers.
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Post by dlw66 on Nov 28, 2006 13:19:19 GMT -5
In reading the 70's FF's, it often occurred when Reed would hightail it out of some perilous situation only to return from his lab moments later with a device that would kick butt on whichever baddie was causing the havoc!
Yeah, with the guys bob mentions, you'd think Bendis/Millar/and company could have done an Illuminati issue where those guys got together and cured AIDS, cancer, etc. Kind of a wonder they haven't done it yet.
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Post by bobc on Nov 28, 2006 14:25:37 GMT -5
No way, Dlw66. That idea isn't boring enough to make it into the New Avengers.
Okay. I'll be nice now. I can feel the hall monitor's beady eyes fixed upon me, and I am withering in the face of it. BACK TO HENRY PYM.
It does seem unfair that he was a founding member, and one of the most powerful Avengers, but these days he's only known for smacking his wife around--I mean who hasn't?
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Nov 28, 2006 16:32:07 GMT -5
bobc -- movin from low to lower, and funny to funnier.
How about if he stayed at his 15 foot height, out of a matter of principle. Constantly changing sizes was based on the philosophy that bigger size was needed for more power, thus more effectiveness in battle. If he were to master a single fighting style for a single size, his character could kind of mature a little bit that way. He could almost be a "Doc Samson" type hero. Enlarge his supporting cast. Whatever happened to that lab assistant he had for a couple issues around number 30 or so? The only way to rehabilitate Hank Pym is to give him his own book. In the Avengers, he'll always be "that guy who slapped Jan." After another 30 or 40 years of continuity, maybe that can be sort of forgotten about -- sort of like all the golden age chauvanism is glossed over nowadays.
You know, if you look at it that way ... I've got a post to make on another thread.
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Post by dlw66 on Nov 28, 2006 16:59:56 GMT -5
His lab assistant was a guy named Bill Foster, who in the groovy 70's became Black Goliath, and later Giant-Man. I understand he was recently offed in the Civil War. That is horrible, because I've felt for a long time like he would have brought some different dynamics to the Avengers as a fresh take on the resident giant/scientist... Guess that won't be happening now!
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Post by Yellowjacket on Nov 29, 2006 5:22:15 GMT -5
´course I voted for YJ. I don´t quite remember why I did choose him as my favorite character in the first place.
But one point I always liked was when YJ was shown as a lively - not to say a (little) bit crazy - guy. I think this happend the last time in Avengers Forever? But then, weren´t there two YJs in this story, a normal and a "crazy" one?
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Post by Doctor Bong on Nov 29, 2006 13:35:53 GMT -5
Well, there was a Yellowjacket & then there was a... was he referred to as Goliath or as Giant-Man...? Or perhaps neither...? Well, at any rate, it was a "normal", present-day (then) Hank Pym with growing powers.
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kingb
Force Works-er
Posts: 16
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Post by kingb on Nov 29, 2006 13:59:08 GMT -5
I voted Yellowjacket because - for me - it's all about the costume.
My hope is that EMH2 heralds the return of "The Hornet's Nest".
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Post by dlw66 on Nov 29, 2006 17:36:35 GMT -5
If we're going to venture into the costume aspect of Hank's tenure in our Avenging hearts, then I would still side with the blue and yellow Goliath costume, followed by the blue and red Giant-Man suit with the REALLY big cybernetic helmet. I believe he wore that get-up in #16 when they were announcing the new line-up.
But he can't touch the Wasp's many costumes, which we've addressed in another thread.
So, if we change gears a bit here, what is the feedback on this question: Wasp, or no Wasp? Some have already hinted at their opinons.
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Post by Doctor Bong on Nov 29, 2006 20:44:23 GMT -5
Hank & Jan are like fish & chips, like hot dogs & mustard, like meat & potatoes! One is just not the same without the other (must be hungry...)!!!
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Post by spiderwasp on Nov 29, 2006 21:41:28 GMT -5
I'm a fan of both Hank and Jan but I really think they're better apart than together. For one thing, in either the Ant man or Yellowjacket identities, the shrinking thing is duplicated. If they are put together, Hank should be Giant Man or Goliath to give a different dynamic. Secondly, when they are in a group together, it becomes all about their personal relationship. The Wasp had huge character growth in the days when she led the team without him. Maybe it's time for each of them to move on and become whole characters instead of half of a whole. This certainly doesn't mean I want either one to not get the attention they deserve though.
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Post by dlw66 on Nov 30, 2006 8:32:36 GMT -5
I get the impression (and I think I feel this way as well) that Jan has already "moved past" Hank in terms of strength of character (comics character, not personality). When I think of her these days, I think of her leadership role on the team. When I think of Hank, I just think he's screwed up in the head. Even with Earth's Mightiest giving him some strong face time, you just know where it's headed...
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Nov 30, 2006 9:52:50 GMT -5
As far as Hank and Jan go, Jan really is the better half. I loved her run as Chair. I don't get any special thrill from seeing the two on the team together though. One at a time works for me. If I had my pick, it would be to see Hank in a solo book for a couple years and Jan on the team. Both characters need to further establish their independent identities, but like dlw66 says, Jan right now is much better developed than Hank.
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Post by dlw66 on Nov 30, 2006 13:08:40 GMT -5
I think Hank should be the one who comes up with the new love interest first. Jan would be the obvious choice for "moving on", but for Hank to do that it would not only establish a new life for him, but some dynamics of Jan being jealous could also be delved into.
I agree that a solo book for Hank would be welcome. He is certainly deserving, not having had one in 30 years!
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Nov 30, 2006 13:48:01 GMT -5
Should Hank get involved with a superheroine type or a normal human? What about Dakota North?
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Post by dlw66 on Nov 30, 2006 13:57:06 GMT -5
I think an interesting dynamic would be for Hank to attempt to settle down in suburbia, just be a scientist/reservist Avenger, but constanty pulled into action. His wife would be "normal", but the pull to adventure would come from Hank. This would contrast with the past, where it was Jan who often talked him into action, staying on the Avengers team, etc. A new direction for Hank.
Unfortunately, that line of thinking doesn't sound too different from Peter Parker...
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Post by bobc on Nov 30, 2006 13:58:15 GMT -5
I always wanted to know why the Wasp didn't fry Hank with a sting when he slapped her.
I have to say I don't think HP could carry his own book. But then again I'd love to be proven wrong. I just find team books more 'interesting.
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Post by dlw66 on Nov 30, 2006 14:26:17 GMT -5
I've always been a team book reader, too. Teen Titans, Avengers, FF, Secret Society of Super-Villains, Defenders, Legion, Champions, Super-Team Family, Inhumans, JLA, All-Star Squadron... they were all on my list when I went to the convenience store each week when I was a small waif.
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Post by sharkar on Nov 30, 2006 15:55:03 GMT -5
I've always been a team book reader, too. Teen Titans, Avengers, FF, Secret Society of Super-Villains, Defenders, Legion, Champions, Super-Team Family, Inhumans, JLA, All-Star Squadron... they were all on my list when I went to the convenience store each week when I was a small waif. Man, that sounds just like me- -since childhood I have always preferred the team books...I like the broader canvas of characters, interactions, etc.
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Post by bobc on Nov 30, 2006 20:25:53 GMT -5
Same here. I get bored with just one person to follow. I'm just greedy by nature--nothing's ever quite good enough. I must have MORE at all times.
Just kidding. I like five, six or seven Avengers at a time, no more or they get lost in a sea of spandex.
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Post by dlw66 on Dec 4, 2006 8:42:19 GMT -5
Overall, which is more important to Hank's personality/usefulness to the Avengers (those are often tied together) -- to be a giant, or to be an "ant"?
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Post by bobc on Dec 4, 2006 10:36:36 GMT -5
Well being giant makes you the world's biggest target, and being ant-sized makes you perfect for espionage and sneak attacks, so I'd say ant size. HOWEVER--it's nice to have the ability to grow when raw strength is needed.
I just can't decide. I'm on the verge of a panic attack. Please stop cornering me with tricky questions.
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