The Definitive Henry Pym

[dlw66]

I am going with Goliath. I thought his return to the team in Avengers #28 was a real high point in his career -- he was welcomed back as a revered founding member and provided muscle to a team that for the previous year had been based more on stealth. His reduction of size-changing abilities made him interesting, and his return to ant-size right before the restoration of growth powers (circa Avengers 46-51) made him the focal point of a few very good Thomas/Buscema collborations. These were good times for Hank, right before a lot of the psychological issues set in which would haunt him even down to the present.

For those of you not aware (what rock have you been under??), the currently running Earth's Mightiest Heroes II looks at this latter mentioned period in Pym's career.

[Bored Yesterday]

Gotta go with Giant Man. It's a real power. I didn't like it when he was all geared up to shrink or turn big, either one. I like when he has one or the other.

I am digging the Goliath era issues though.

[bobc]

But Hank can still grow as Yellowjacket, so all these identities are the same, really.

[dlw66]

bobc said:

But Hank can still grow as Yellowjacket, so all these identities are the same, really.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Hank is Yellowjacket from issues 59-138 (with a brief interlude as Ant-Man in the classic Kree-Skrull War issues) and never grows. To the best of my recollection, he doesn't grow until he does battle with the Whirlwind in #139, which is the first of a classic two-parter concluding with the Vision entering his body in #140.

Now, after, I'll give you that he grows (although I still think that's a pretty modern thing); but I always think he looks strange as a giant in the YJ outfit...

[Doctor Bong]

Are we talking here about which superhero identity we like better, or which one we think was more important or defining in his life...?
I voted for Giant-Man because that one's my favorite, but if we're talking about important or defining, I'm torn between Ant-Man, because it was the 1st & the one which got him started, and Yellowjacket, for it seems t me that's the one in which he has settled for longer periods of his superheroic career.

[dlw66]

Maybe look at it this way: If you'd known him and he died, how would you like to remember him? And why?

[redstatecap]

I'll go with Ant-Man. That was what he was during Bride of Ultron, which was just about the first comic I ever read. That's how I remember him.

RSC

[dlw66]

Truly one of the all-time great Avengers covers!!! And my favorite Wonder Man suit, too!

[spiderwasp]

If it's how I'd want him remembered, I'd go with Antman because that's when he emerged as a hero and had most of his great scientific developments (Pym particles, cybernetic helmet that communicates with ants, giving the Wasp her wings). This is also the identity he was using when he helped found the Avengers.
I realize he's been Yellowjacket longer, but the fact that it has been the identity through which he has gone through forgetting who he is in order to marry Jan, hitting her, getting divorced, being court martialed and facing the evil half of himself, it surprises me that this is the identity he is sticking with. His reputation in pretty much any other identity is far more stellar.

[Bored Yesterday]

I used to be all about Yellowjacket. That was his identity thorugh the bulk of my childhood. But now, it just doesn't seem iconic enough, as an identity. Then there's the Saturday Night Live skit that featured all the super-heroes at a party. I forget who, maybe Superman, was talking to Ant Man. Ant Man explained his powers, "you see, I can shrink to the size of an ant, and retain the strength of a normal man." Then the other superhero mocks him, "Hey Hulk -- this guy's got the strength of a NORMAL MAN! Har Har Har!"

After that, I was pretty well convinced that Giant Man was the best identity. Leave the bugs alone.

[Doctor Doom]

The first comic I ever read with Hank in it had him as Yellowjacket, so I think of that as the definitive version for some reason

[sharkar]

dlw66 said:

I am going with Goliath. I thought his return to the team in Avengers #28 was a real high point in his career -- he was welcomed back as a revered founding member and provided muscle to a team that for the previous year had been based more on stealth. His reduction of size-changing abilities made him interesting, and his return to ant-size right before the restoration of growth powers (circa Avengers 46-51) made him the focal point of a few very good Thomas/Buscema collborations. These were good times for Hank, right before a lot of the psychological issues set in which would haunt him even down to the present.

For those of you not aware (what rock have you been under??), the currently running Earth's Mightiest Heroes II looks at this latter mentioned period in Pym's career.

dlw says it all for me, too. I voted for Goliath. Hank's return in #28 was an Avengers milestone and represents Henry Pym at his finest. He added muscle to that team, stepped in as a leader when Cap started going off on his own adventures, and then after #47, when Cap announced he was leaving full-time duty as an Avenger (at that time, anyway), Hank became the de facto leader...even when the team dwindled to three members (or, as Hank himself put it in #50, "two-and-a-half", since he had recently lost his growing powers).

The later mental problems are interesting and have led to lots of storylines, but I prefer I prefer to remember Hank as he first appeared as Goliath: a team player, but also passionate (his fights with Hawkeye!), intelligent and a leader.

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

[Doctor Bong]

Uuummm... from what I'm gathering here, there seems to be pretty much a consensus that "Dr. Pym, the Scientific Adventurer", from Avengers West Coast, was his lamest identity...

[Bored Yesterday]

The scientific adventurer is in a tie for my second choice, tied with Goliath. I'm really only reading the Goliath issues right now, and so far am totallty digging it. The scientific adventurer though, was kind of neat as a concept for a character. But I think he would work better in a novel than a comic book. In a genre when super geniuses can come up with anything given a plot driven necessity, it was just a bit too convenient for him to carry those solutions in his pockets.

[Doctor Bong]

That, plus the fact that he could conceivably defeat almost any enemy facing him in a matter of mere seconds by shrinking him/her.
Having said that, I really dug the concept of the Big House, as it appeared in She-Hulk's book.

[BigDuke]

I have to say Goliath was my favorite. especially the Red & Blue costume with the yellow goggles & antenae. That was the first Goliath I ever saw. He was at his most heroic, before all the mental problems. He was large and in charge, and could solve problems with brawn and brains.

[ozbot]

Hey! I *liked* the Dr. Pym persona! Of course, as envisioned by Englehart, Dr. Pym wasn't as much of a front-line hero which you guys seem to prefer.

[Engage]

I voted for Yellowjacket because it combined the shrinking powers with a offensive weapon that eliminates the classic "Pym is the weakest link" problem. Plus I always liked the visual of a swarm of bees descending on a villain.

[Doctor Bong]

Yeah, but that Yellowjacket emblem on his chest's got to be one of the worst emblems in the whole history of comicdom...

[Engage]

My favourite part of that logo is that it looks better when Pym is 3-inches tall. I guess thats why it looks like a random smear of paint when he's at full size.

I'd say its better than nothing but I don't know if thats true. Also, how did those shoulder things count as wings?

[dlw66]

Didn't the big shoulder deals vibrate, and that's what enabled him to fly?

[Shiryu]

Yep, and also to build up energy for his blasts.

In the end I voted for Goliath, basically because I like name and powers, but I prefer Pym when he can combine all his skills, changing from giant to ant (in the early issues, Thor referred to him as "master of many sizes" ) and using ants in battle.

[bobc]

I think I liked Yellowjacket the best. But I also liked him as Giant Man in the early days of the Avengers when he changed costumes more than the Wasp ever did. I recall an interview years ago when Stan Lee said Henry Pym was a character that just never really caught on with readers. I always thought that was because he seemed old, married and boring to young pups like me (at the time I mean--I am now in my twilight years myself, so I know all about old and boring). I always kinda liked him though, especially in the Avengers.

[dlw66]

bob, great point. At the time, the mantra of the young was "don't trust anyone over 30" and Hank was definitely portrayed as an "old fogey"!

[bobc]

Overall, the list of married super heroes is almost nill. In fact, in pop culture in general, married =invisible. The number of TV shows featuring married situations are far outnumbered by shows featuring singles dating. Or cheating.

[bobc]

Okay guys--when you think of Hank Pym fighting somebody, what battle comes to mind? Has he ever had a standout battle? I'd have to say it was when he fought the Super Adaptoid, but other than that I am drawing a blank. Maybe I need mo' coffee.

[Bored Yesterday]

When he took out the entire team of Avengers in that issue that has Scarlet Witch on the cover, covered by ants.

[dlw66]

The battle against Dragon Man in #42, the battles against Whirlwind in #46 and #139, and the aforementioned #161. Those were all great!!

[Doctor Bong]

How about when he puts Ultron down (for a while, that is...) at the end of Ultron Unlimited...?

[ozbot]

Don't forget Pym turning the tables on Egghead's Masters of Evil and pretty darn near taking them all down at by himself.