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Post by michidiers on Jun 15, 2011 11:30:14 GMT -5
HB and ultron: As you said. It is not the great issue. One problem would actually be, that the previous issues were very excellent. And this story is only common, apart from the aspects I wrote (the spionage flights and the discussion between the Avengers). ...is between the Avengers the right english spoken preposition? or: under, or among ?
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Post by michidiers on Jul 3, 2011 10:24:11 GMT -5
US Avengers # 189„Wings and Arrows“ Steven Grant/Byrne/Dan Green Hawkeye is still angry that the Government chose to replace him on the roster for Falcon. He leaves the mansion, applies for a new employment. He finds new business as a security officer at Cross Technological Enterprises. Just in the first night he has to avert a break-in by “Deathbird”. Meanwhile the Avengers are running into trouble. Scarlet Witch wants to break-up her membership because of a lot of personal affairs. Government-Agent Gyrich isn´t agree with it and threatens to dissolve the whole team… This is a typical fill-in story with a solo-adventure with our friend Hawkeye. The story is Ok and it is funny to read. Entertainment without pertinence! O.K.! I remember, that I ´ve already read something about Hawkeyes employment at "Cross Technological Enterprises". So far I know it could be in Marvel Fanfare #2+3. and Hawkeye #1+2. These storys were published here in Germany in the years 1984 and 1989 in the “Die Spinne Magazin” #102, 102 and #174-176:
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Post by humanbelly on Jul 4, 2011 5:48:18 GMT -5
Including that Die Spinne magazine cover was pretty cool, there, Mich. Am I correct that the title literally means "The Spider"-? I'm checkin' my wife's old English/Deutsch dictionary, here. . . Do you suppose "Spinne-Mensch" just takes up too much space on the page? Let's see, and "Amazing Spider-Man" comes out as. . . wow. . . "Erstaunlich Spinne-Mensch"--- okay, I daresay that's a bit of a mouthful for us American-types, at least! (We seem to like to verbally shorten everything that comes our way. . . ;D)
Hey, this is the issue (isn't it?) where Hawkeye gives Deathbird a big ol' Dip & Smooch before the cops haul her off? I know that this bit rankled some feathers (ironic phrase noted) among a contingent of fans for its overtones of unnecessary sexual harassment-- but I've always had a hard time buying into that.
a) Good grief, Deathbird was trying to KILL him for a goodly portion of the issue (although admittedly, I believe her initial goal was escape, wasn't it?). I think on the harassment scale, attempted murder trumps a kiss pretty much every time.
b) Well-- Hawkeye's an unrepentant sexist to some degree. Okay, a large degree. It's completely (and rather brilliantly) in character for him. Yes, he's historically objectified women based on physical beauty. Yes, he's tended to assume his attentions and affections were welcome when they really weren't. Yes, he's been prone to being overly-protective (particularly in earlier years). But he's always carried this off without malice and possibly while even maintaining a sense of professional respect (which is a tough balancing act). But the "Omigod, Hawkeye, you idiot-!" swashbuckling arrogance is a trait of his that we love even as we roll our eyes at it.
c) Given that indulging in a parting shot at a subdued prisoner like that is terribly immature in the first place-- I would think that a stolen kiss is MUCH to be preferred over a punch or a slap or (ugh) something more aggressively sexual. In her shoes, I too would have been FURIOUS--- but that was probably the goal, yes? Certainly not to do her physical or emotional harm.
Heh-- Hawkeye's my favorite Avenger. I could get to talking on about him forever. . .
HB
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Post by ultron69 on Jul 4, 2011 8:11:59 GMT -5
I love the way Hawkeye took down Deathbird, once again proving his remarkable resourcefulness, and I also love the kiss he plants on her. Classic stuff!
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Post by michidiers on Jul 5, 2011 10:23:04 GMT -5
The Kiss! Wow, this is the best panels of this issue. Deathbird wants to kill her rival. And what she earns after the fight? A cute kiss!! Wow, what extraordinary idea from writer Steven Grant. This little picture gave me a really pleasure. I personally hadn't got a problem here in the issue with any kind of sexual harassment. "The laught is always on the looser". Hawkeye, often the looser at women! But in this case he is the "shoo-in", the winner: Spider-Man / Die Spinne: Here is a Link www.comicguide.de/php/suche.php?search=spider-man to most of the Spider-Man series published here in Germany. As you can see, the titels are different, some in german language and some in english language.
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Post by sharkar on Jul 14, 2011 19:49:50 GMT -5
Including that Die Spinne magazine cover was pretty cool, there, Mich. I agree with HB-- very cool cover, Mich! Thanks for posting it. ...Yes, he's tended to assume his attentions and affections were welcome when they really weren't. Well, can you blame him? ;D After all, he's got looks and he's fun to talk to... But he's always carried this off without malice... Yes, absolutely! There's not a malevolent bone in his body. HB and ultron: As you said. It is not the great issue. One problem would actually be, that the previous issues were very excellent. And this story is only common, apart from the aspects I wrote (the spionage flights and the discussion between the Avengers). ...is between the Avengers the right english spoken preposition? or: under, or among ? Your sentence was perfectly understandable, Mich--but since you asked: for your sentence, "among" is probably the better word. The idea here is that the discussions are occurring within a single entity--the group (the Avengers). You're not singling out individuals within the group. "Between" is typically used when there are individuals (or individual entities) and where a relationship is contextually implied or stated. Also, usually the parties involved are specifically referred to. Examples: "the discussion between Cap and Hawkeye"..."the discussion between the Avengers and the X-Men"..."the discussion between the heroes and the villains."
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Post by michidiers on Jul 31, 2011 7:39:54 GMT -5
US Avengers #190Heart of Stone Steven Grant/John Byrne/Dan Green At the inducement of the commissary of the government Peter Gyrich the Avengers have to appear in person at an official board of inquiry. The reason is the scheduled liquidation of the team. Within the hearing a lot of arguments about PRO and CON are fiercely passed between Gyrich and the Avengers. In the dispute, supporters and opponents are equally divided until an emergency call breaks off the discussion. An alien is in crazed action and vandalized in the streets. Gnashing his teeths Gyrich is compelled to give his consent for the Avengers to interfere. Arriving at the localisation of the occurrence, the Avengers meet the alien. It is the GREEN GARGOYLE… This issue distinguished oneself by the excellent formulated dialogs by guest-writer Steven Grant. The masterfully and straight-line dialogs, especially while the hearing, shapes a tensioned and interesting plot and a smoothly flow of reading (especially for me as a native german speaking guy). Very well!!! Bye, I´m going in vacation to Poland ( Warzawa, Tatra-Mountains at the border to Slowakia and 3 days at the parents of my girl-friend in Silesia) I´ll come back in a few weeks.
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Post by humanbelly on Aug 7, 2011 6:06:40 GMT -5
US Avengers #190Heart of Stone Steven Grant/John Byrne/Dan Green At the inducement of the commissary of the government Peter Gyrich the Avengers have to appear in person at an official board of inquiry. The reason is the scheduled liquidation of the team. Within the hearing a lot of arguments about PRO and CON are fiercely passed between Gyrich and the Avengers. In the dispute, supporters and opponents are equally divided until an emergency call breaks off the discussion. An alien is in crazed action and vandalized in the streets. Gnashing his teeths Gyrich is compelled to give his consent for the Avengers to interfere. Arriving at the localisation of the occurrence, the Avengers meet the alien. It is the GREEN GARGOYLE… This issue distinguished oneself by the excellent formulated dialogs by guest-writer Steven Grant. The masterfully and straight-line dialogs, especially while the hearing, shapes a tensioned and interesting plot and a smoothly flow of reading (especially for me as a native german speaking guy). Very well!!! Bye, I´m going in vacation to Poland ( Warzawa, Tatra-Mountains at the border to Slowakia and 3 days at the parents of my girl-friend in Silesia) I´ll come back in a few weeks. Whoops! And now, Mich, you've run off on vacation! (We just returned from our own delightful trip ourselves-- a state park in the mountains of West Virginia.) LOVED this issue! Terrific visual story-telling on JB & Dan Green's part. Extremely snappy dialog on Mr. Grant's part-- does anyone with more knowledge know if he went further in comics? His name's kind of familiar, but I'm not immediately associating it with any title in particular. The only weakness, really, is the revelation that this HUGELY formidable creature is actually the hugely UN-formidable, fourth-stringer-- the Grey Gargoyle. He suddenly goes from being an Avengers-level threat to a Daredevil-on-his-way-Burger-King-level threat. (Although. . . does he then manage to defeat them long enough to escape in the next issue? Yeesh-- that would be embarrassing. . . ) HB
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Post by ultron69 on Aug 16, 2011 13:54:05 GMT -5
...is between the Avengers the right english spoken preposition? or: under, or among ? I think it's among.
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Post by ultron69 on Aug 16, 2011 13:58:02 GMT -5
US Avengers #190Heart of Stone Steven Grant/John Byrne/Dan Green At the inducement of the commissary of the government Peter Gyrich the Avengers have to appear in person at an official board of inquiry. The reason is the scheduled liquidation of the team. Within the hearing a lot of arguments about PRO and CON are fiercely passed between Gyrich and the Avengers. In the dispute, supporters and opponents are equally divided until an emergency call breaks off the discussion. An alien is in crazed action and vandalized in the streets. Gnashing his teeths Gyrich is compelled to give his consent for the Avengers to interfere. Arriving at the localisation of the occurrence, the Avengers meet the alien. It is the GREEN GARGOYLE… This issue distinguished oneself by the excellent formulated dialogs by guest-writer Steven Grant. The masterfully and straight-line dialogs, especially while the hearing, shapes a tensioned and interesting plot and a smoothly flow of reading (especially for me as a native german speaking guy). Very well!!! Bye, I´m going in vacation to Poland ( Warzawa, Tatra-Mountains at the border to Slowakia and 3 days at the parents of my girl-friend in Silesia) I´ll come back in a few weeks. I loved this issue, too. Besides the outstanding art, the writing is also very good. I loved the way the Avengers had to get permission to "go outside and play" (i.e., save the city).
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Post by scottharris on Aug 17, 2011 13:55:48 GMT -5
b) Well-- Hawkeye's an unrepentant sexist to some degree. Okay, a large degree. It's completely (and rather brilliantly) in character for him. Yes, he's historically objectified women based on physical beauty. Yes, he's tended to assume his attentions and affections were welcome when they really weren't. Yes, he's been prone to being overly-protective (particularly in earlier years). But he's always carried this off without malice and possibly while even maintaining a sense of professional respect (which is a tough balancing act). But the "Omigod, Hawkeye, you idiot-!" swashbuckling arrogance is a trait of his that we love even as we roll our eyes at it. You know, I have a slightly different take on Hawkeye. I think at heart he's actually a die hard romantic and that the periods where he is objectifying women or acting like a swinger are a result of him overcompensating to try and prove he hasn't been hurt by women who, in fact, have hurt him very deeply. If you look at his relationship history, he starts off in a serious, committed relationship with Black Widow, which lasts for several years. When she finally dumps him for good, though, he almost immediately swings over to this "hit on everything that moves" personality -- kissing Wanda, making wisecracks about the ladies, theatrically reading nudie mags. It's all very "look at me, I don't need women, I can love them and leave them" posturing. Then he meets Mockingbird and swings back 180 degrees. I know some people have had a problem with this abrupt change from swinger to married man, but I think it fits. he found true love, was happy; the act was done. Then she died and he was hurt even worse than before -- and he again immediately becomes this one-night stand guy. You know, going on motorcyle trips to find himself, sleeping with whoever is around -- including Wasp and Wanda -- it's all very indicative of a romantic who has had his heart broken and is wallowing in it, trying to prove to himself that he doesn't need "love." For me, it's all an act, a defense mechanism to protect himself from more heartbreak. Having said all that, one thing that has always bothered me is that during Operation: Galactic Storm he teams up with Deathbird and she never mentions this incident from #189. I even wrote a letter (which was published in #353) and they basically said, well, he was in his Goliath costume at the time so she didn't recognize him, which I guess is possible but also I think highly unlikely. It still bugs me, to be honest. She should have tried to kick his ass instead of teaming up with him.
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Post by humanbelly on Aug 21, 2011 5:52:02 GMT -5
b) Well-- Hawkeye's an unrepentant sexist to some degree. Okay, a large degree. It's completely (and rather brilliantly) in character for him. Yes, he's historically objectified women based on physical beauty. Yes, he's tended to assume his attentions and affections were welcome when they really weren't. Yes, he's been prone to being overly-protective (particularly in earlier years). But he's always carried this off without malice and possibly while even maintaining a sense of professional respect (which is a tough balancing act). But the "Omigod, Hawkeye, you idiot-!" swashbuckling arrogance is a trait of his that we love even as we roll our eyes at it. You know, I have a slightly different take on Hawkeye. I think at heart he's actually a die hard romantic and that the periods where he is objectifying women or acting like a swinger are a result of him overcompensating to try and prove he hasn't been hurt by women who, in fact, have hurt him very deeply. If you look at his relationship history, he starts off in a serious, committed relationship with Black Widow, which lasts for several years. When she finally dumps him for good, though, he almost immediately swings over to this "hit on everything that moves" personality -- kissing Wanda, making wisecracks about the ladies, theatrically reading nudie mags. It's all very "look at me, I don't need women, I can love them and leave them" posturing. Then he meets Mockingbird and swings back 180 degrees. I know some people have had a problem with this abrupt change from swinger to married man, but I think it fits. he found true love, was happy; the act was done. Then she died and he was hurt even worse than before -- and he again immediately becomes this one-night stand guy. You know, going on motorcyle trips to find himself, sleeping with whoever is around -- including Wasp and Wanda -- it's all very indicative of a romantic who has had his heart broken and is wallowing in it, trying to prove to himself that he doesn't need "love." For me, it's all an act, a defense mechanism to protect himself from more heartbreak. Having said all that, one thing that has always bothered me is that during Operation: Galactic Storm he teams up with Deathbird and she never mentions this incident from #189. I even wrote a letter (which was published in #353) and they basically said, well, he was in his Goliath costume at the time so she didn't recognize him, which I guess is possible but also I think highly unlikely. It still bugs me, to be honest. She should have tried to kick his ass instead of teaming up with him. Heck, I like your take a lot, Scott. This is good stuff, as it manages to craft a believable, cohesive, comprehensive character arc for Hawkeye that I seriously doubt was consciously intended by the multiple writers over multiple decades. Plus our takes aren't mutually exclusive at all-- I think mine simply fits comfortably inside of yours. Keep in mind that being a faithful, one-woman-guy doesn't preclude him from being chauvinistic-- nor does it speak to the depth of his feelings. It strikes me as more of a learned-behavior aspect of his personality. Also to his credit- and I'm having to force myself to try to clearly recall the repressed memory of his fling w/ Jan, here-- wasn't he rather a reluctant participant at first in that tryst? The unexpected kiss. . . and then a "we shouldn't be doing this" moment. . . and then they continued "doing this", as it were? Ugh-- I hated it so much, that I can't recall the specific details. . . Wow, completely forgot about the Deathbird reunion in Galactic Storm. "Didn't recognize him"-?? I dunno-- maybe for awhile. His Hawkeye headgear is a pretty effective concealment-- but I can't imagine it wouldn't dawn on her at some point if he was talking at all. Heh-- that little scenario could also be delightfully expanded with a bit of Joe Casey "between the scenes" treatment. . . HB
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Post by michidiers on Aug 26, 2011 11:49:59 GMT -5
Thank you for these lot of interesting words about our archer Hawkeye (in German: FALKENAUGE). My last reading was:US Avengers #191 „Back to the Stone Age!“ Michelinie/Byrne/Green Continued from #190: After a hunt through New York and a fierce fight the Avengers can stop the Grey Gargoyle in the apartment of his old identity as Paul Duval. Wandas witchcraft transforms his hard as stone body back to normal flesh and blood. In the following epilogue the avengers recovers their official priority. The government committee decided that The Avengers priority privileges and security clearance remain intact and that the restrictions on their autonomy be lessened. Iron Man ponders; the future will not be easy after the last incidents, especially for Wanda. This issue is dominated by action and fight. Even in the well written epilogue I read first interpersonal dialogs. This is only on tha last page and it is too little for a good story in my opinion. Admittedly the story-title is well chosen: "Back to the Stone Age". and could refer to the novel by E.R. Borrouhgs (Tarzan):
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Post by starfoxxx on Aug 26, 2011 16:24:49 GMT -5
Avengers #191 is one of my all-time favorite covers. Just fantastic.
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Post by michidiers on Aug 29, 2011 10:06:12 GMT -5
Avengers #191 is one of my all-time favorite covers. Just fantastic. Yes, right!! I forgot to mention the succeeded cover. Ten (!) persons are on the cover in a dynamic and dramatic pose while fighting each other. And look at the selection of the colours: Vision (green/yellow) tumbling by Gargoyles (grey) hard strike into an orange dusk. Like an ancient wall painting of a medieval battle.
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Post by ultron69 on Sept 14, 2011 7:54:46 GMT -5
This was a very good issue, though actually slightly subpar compared with the previous 9 issues. The Falcon gets to chip in (yay!) and Wanda's powers are a dues ex machina again. It was great when the court ruled in the Avengers' favor. More really good art, and yes, and excellent cover.
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Post by michidiers on Sept 21, 2011 10:20:21 GMT -5
Ah, my last reading:Avengers #192“Steel City Nightmare” Michelinie/A. Jones/R. Villamonte Tony Stark and his friend Wonder-Man are on business in Pittsburgh to add a steel foundry to Stark International. During the visit an accident happens. A steel worker falls into a furnace and transforms into a weird being of molten steel and slag: “Inferno!” Iron Man an Wondie are in big trouble and give an emergency call to the HQ for reinforcement. But in the HQ the remaining Avengers have got another sorrows. After the incidents of the recent issues Cap ponders about a new set up of the team-mates. He thinks about recruitment of new team-mates, for example Hawkeye and Yellowjacket. And Wanda is leaving the team again for personal matters she has to explore. Opinion: Jeez, what fantastic Pop-Art by the artist A. Jones/R. Villamonte. I love it: And interesting is something odd what happened in the recent issues: The Avengers got back their priority and the restrictions of the government were lessened. I become suspicious that this could be the first inception of the origin of the storyarc “Civil War”… Ok, I have to go near the baltic sea. I have to join there a polish language class for a few weeks for my buisness. Bye! I´ll come back in november.
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Post by ultron69 on Oct 7, 2011 14:54:10 GMT -5
I thought this issue was decent, but did not measure up to the previous issues, especially in the art department. I was glad that the Avengers were allowed to expand their roster - I'm a sucker for big teams.
I thought it was interesting that this was a rare mention of Wonder Man's previous career as an inventor and, for that matter, a failed business man, thanks to Tony Stark.
Wasn't the guy who was pushed into the molten metal, or maybe the guy who pushed him, black in this issue and white in the next issue, or something like that? I seem to recall some sort of color discrepancy.
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Post by michidiers on Nov 2, 2011 10:05:34 GMT -5
Wasn't the guy who was pushed into the molten metal, or maybe the guy who pushed him, black in this issue and white in the next issue, or something like that? I seem to recall some sort of color discrepancy. No, he wasn´t black, he was in the shadow while killing the worker. In #192 it seems, that the killer is a ordinary worker. And in #193 the chief confirmed, that he hired another worker named "Turkin" with the killing. US Avengers #193"Inferno Unleashed" Michelinie/S. Buscema/Dan Green Continued from #191: The being Inferno, a metamorphosis from man and steel, is furthermore stomping through Pittsburgh. After Wondermans emergency call the Avengers are heading to the steel-city an can stop the menace. The story is OK, but not more. The drawings Buscema/Green aren’t really fitting the story. And the inks are too fat! David Michelinies writing is well with a couple of nice wordplays. I’m a little baffled because of the credits. There I read by “Plot Assist”: The „Pittsburgh Comix Club“. What’s that?
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Post by ultron69 on Nov 2, 2011 15:21:22 GMT -5
I thought #193 was a bit lacking both in the writing and the art. Not bad, mind you, but a bit sub-par for the Avengers. For the most part, I did like Dave Micheline's run, but this was probably my seacond least favorite of his run, after the awful fill-in issue of #203. I like, but don't love, Sals' pencils in general, but I do agree that the inking probably wasn't the greatest.
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Post by humanbelly on Nov 2, 2011 20:04:37 GMT -5
Wasn't the guy who was pushed into the molten metal, or maybe the guy who pushed him, black in this issue and white in the next issue, or something like that? I seem to recall some sort of color discrepancy. No, he wasn´t black, he was in the shadow while killing the worker. In #192 it seems, that the killer is a ordinary worker. And in #193 the chief confirmed, that he hired another worker named "Turkin" with the killing. US Avengers #193"Inferno Unleashed" Michelinie/S. Buscema/Dan Green Continued from #191: The being Inferno, a metamorphosis from man and steel, is furthermore stomping through Pittsburgh. After Wondermans emergency call the Avengers are heading to the steel-city an can stop the menace. The story is OK, but not more. The drawings Buscema/Green aren’t really fitting the story. And the inks are too fat! David Michelinies writing is well with a couple of nice wordplays. I’m a little baffled because of the credits. There I read by “Plot Assist”: The „Pittsburgh Comix Club“. What’s that? Wait, wait- I distinctly remember this. It was discussed on the letters page a few issues later. The poor fellow who got pushed into the cauldron- and subsequently turned into Inferno- was "written" as a black character, with a moderately "black" manner of speech (which is a whole 'nother kettle of stereotyped fish, I might point out. . . with my eyebrows raised in an "oh really?" fashion. . . ). The writer- Michilinie?- specifically said so. But the colorist missed that note. . . and Sal's pencils were ambiguous enough that the character's race wasn't that obvious-- which may be kind of an odd credit to Sal, when you think about it. What made me very uncomfortable- and no one talked about it at all- is that when this Caucasian mill-worker is shown speaking with this writer's idea of a "black" manner of speech, he comes off sounding earnest and enthusiastic. . . and as just a bit of a simpleton. Just a touch. Where does stereotyped dialect end and true characterization begin? It made me very, VERY squirmy. But there's the inside story, anyhoo-- HB
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Post by ultron69 on Nov 7, 2011 8:31:28 GMT -5
No, he wasn´t black, he was in the shadow while killing the worker. In #192 it seems, that the killer is a ordinary worker. And in #193 the chief confirmed, that he hired another worker named "Turkin" with the killing. US Avengers #193"Inferno Unleashed" Michelinie/S. Buscema/Dan Green Continued from #191: The being Inferno, a metamorphosis from man and steel, is furthermore stomping through Pittsburgh. After Wondermans emergency call the Avengers are heading to the steel-city an can stop the menace. The story is OK, but not more. The drawings Buscema/Green aren’t really fitting the story. And the inks are too fat! David Michelinies writing is well with a couple of nice wordplays. I’m a little baffled because of the credits. There I read by “Plot Assist”: The „Pittsburgh Comix Club“. What’s that? Wait, wait- I distinctly remember this. It was discussed on the letters page a few issues later. The poor fellow who got pushed into the cauldron- and subsequently turned into Inferno- was "written" as a black character, with a moderately "black" manner of speech (which is a whole 'nother kettle of stereotyped fish, I might point out. . . with my eyebrows raised in an "oh really?" fashion. . . ). The writer- Michilinie?- specifically said so. But the colorist missed that note. . . and Sal's pencils were ambiguous enough that the character's race wasn't that obvious-- which may be kind of an odd credit to Sal, when you think about it. HB Thank you, HB, that's the way I remember it, too. I remember reading something in the letters column about it.
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Post by michidiers on Nov 14, 2011 10:50:33 GMT -5
Wasn't the guy who was pushed into the molten metal, or maybe the guy who pushed him, black in this issue and white in the next issue, or something like that? I seem to recall some sort of color discrepancy. No, he wasn´t black, he was in the shadow while killing the worker. In #192 it seems, that the killer is a ordinary worker. And in #193 the chief confirmed, that he hired another worker named "Turkin" with the killing. US Avengers #193"Inferno Unleashed" Michelinie/S. Buscema/Dan Green I’m a little baffled because of the credits. There I read by “Plot Assist”: The „Pittsburgh Comix Club“. What’s that? I found this very interesting article from an ancient member about the Pittsbourgh Comixclub. Very interesting marvel fan-history from the 70th: innocentbystander.typepad.com/innocent_bystander/2005/01/long_ago_and_fa.html
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Post by badgermaniac on Nov 20, 2011 13:22:25 GMT -5
bobc & HB: I´ve pondered about my readings of the last two or three years about the Avengers, the original US Avengers since the issue #100 until #158 (the others, #1 - #99 I read 30 years ago). I come to the conclusion that these last two issues #157/158 were the weakest of all 58 issues from #100 to #158! I am going to stick up for the 157/158 story with Graviton. I liked it specifically because there was a villain that was not defeated through guile or might, but rather due to a flaw with the villain. I think it is important to get the occasional arc where there isn't a clear solution but somehow, the team just gets lucky (for lack of a better word). Thematically, you might talk about the nature of good vs. evil in that even though evil might be stronger, there is something inherent in good that will allow it to find a way to prevail. I also have a soft spot for stories where the "weaker" characters like Panther (or Jarvis) play a key role in victory. Hawkeye defeating the Collector is another example from around that era. Is it as good as the Korvac/Ultron stuff coming up? No, but I still really enjoyed the Graviton/Nefaria stuff.
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Post by michidiers on Dec 11, 2011 4:39:54 GMT -5
bobc & HB: I think it is important to get the occasional arc where there isn't a clear solution but somehow, the team just gets lucky (for lack of a better word). Thematically, you might talk about the nature of good vs. evil in that even though evil might be stronger, there is something inherent in good that will allow it to find a way to prevail. Interesting opinion! I have read my recently this issue: US Avengers #194
„Interlude“Michelinie/Perez/Rubinstein As the title suggests, in this issue the Avengers private live is subject. In a sort of "Behind the scenes," the personal and human relationships are shown by the example of an afternoon in the Avengers Mansion: television, conversation, table tennis etc… The rest is disturbed, as an escaped patient called "Same" from the Dr. Solomon Institute of Criminal Insane stands at the entrance. And shortly thereafter he is picked up by two rude nurses with a court order again. The Avengers decide to visit Dr. Solomon ... Just this soap opera without spending a lot of action I prefer the Avengers. This "Behind the Scenes" has been set great by George Perez at scene. Wasp is wearing a new costume, which I do not like. A white full-body suit, without the right sleeve and the left leg. That looks pretty stupid!
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Post by ultron69 on Dec 12, 2011 8:23:25 GMT -5
I liked this issue a lot. I like "behind the scenes" stuff, and the ending really made me want to know what would happen next with Selbe and the Wasp. Also, you can never go wrong woth George Perez art! However, I do agree with Michidiers that the Wasp's costume is kinda stupid, but then Jan is always willing to take a fashion risk.
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Post by michidiers on Jan 8, 2012 8:29:42 GMT -5
However, I do agree with Michidiers that the Wasp's costume is kinda stupid, but then Jan is always willing to take a fashion risk. Here on the Cover you can see the lousy costume: US-Avengers #195„Assault on a mind cage2 Michelinie/Perez/Abel+Green Continued from #194: The Avengers follow the trail of the wasp to the dubious Solomon Institute, a mental hospital for insane criminals. In the absence of official authorization, sneak Yellow Jacket and Ant-Man (Scott Lang) into it and discover a terrible secret. It's a recruitment center for aspiring "Foot Soldiers" for supervillains. They can free the tiny Wasp. But suddenly appears the director of the Institute. And this is the Task Master… ... The story is OK. To see the "tiny" YJ, Ant-Man and Wasp in a joint action is a nice variety. Unfortunately, changes in the middle of the story the inker, resulting in a drop in graphic quality with it.
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 8, 2012 10:09:15 GMT -5
I loved this issue, actually. The art is obviously great, and I liked the writing as well. I liked seeing Yellowjacket, Ant-Man, and Wasp being featured as the stars here. And a training academy for supervillains? Why not. It seems like a reasonable enough concept, by comic book standards.
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Post by humanbelly on Jan 8, 2012 13:07:26 GMT -5
I loved this issue, actually. The art is obviously great, and I liked the writing as well. I liked seeing Yellowjacket, Ant-Man, and Wasp being featured as the stars here. And a training academy for supervillains? Why not. It seems like a reasonable enough concept, by comic book standards. The whole idea of an "academy" devoted to training up villainous minions and foot-soldiers was just a delightful one to me. It's a joke, of course-- but a dark, dark, and broadly, unapologetically cynical one. I mean, one of the CLASSIC questions that would pop up in our 12-to-14 year-old comic book bull-sessions was, "where do all of these super-villains get their armies from? Who ARE these guys??" I can only imagine that the germ of this concept had been floating around for years as an ongoing editorial gag ("Why, they hire them from Rent-a-Thug, of course-!"), until Shooter or Michilinie or someone said Heywaitaminnit-- why not?? Cynical aspect #1: That there would be SO FLIPPIN' MANY down-on-their-luck, amoral, mercenary, low-life semi-criminal thugs out there on the fringes of our society, that they could AMPLY keep such an academy perpetually in business & thriving. Cynical aspect #2: That the Taskmaster's business model is entirely dependent upon the assumption that the would-be world conquerors he does business with (supplying them with their necessary little armies) will not, in fact, be conquering the world anytime in the foreseeable future. Otherwise, why even bother setting up his academy system? If the Mad Thinker or The Mandrill or whomever would just be taking over everything anyhow? He has no expectation whatsoever that any of these megalobozoiacs are gonna succeed-- but is happy to profit handsomely from their endless attempts. Sheesh! Yep, enjoyed this little addition to the MU a whole lot, I did. HB (edit: cleaned up grammar & typos!)
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Post by starfoxxx on Jan 8, 2012 17:32:05 GMT -5
I always liked that costume for the Wasp. Definitely a memorable one.
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