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Post by bobc on Jul 24, 2006 11:37:00 GMT -5
I will take my business elsewhere as well. It's pretty obvious Marvel doesn't give a d**n about us traditional fans despite the fact that many of us have spent tens of thousands of dollars on their comics. I'll still buy Miller's tuff but nothing else.
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Post by bobc on Aug 9, 2006 13:37:37 GMT -5
And since we're on a roll here, in the really early issues of the X-Men, Marvel Girl was always "teleporting" things--maybe Nightcrawler sued her for copyright infringement, because later she changed over to telekinesis.
Still in all, nobody comes even close to the Scarlet Witch for poorly defined abilities. You could never be sure, one issue to the next, what she'd be capable of. Remember when she "helped" the Avengers by hexing that dam that almost swept all of them to their doom? Or the time when she hexed that blind giant (Gaza, maybe?) and returned his sight, making him much more dangerous? I'm sure after those snafus, the other Avengers were helpfully suggesting she stay home next adventure. For the sake of their lives!!! Then there was the time she got the hots for Namor, and reached out to touch him like a big ol' ho, and she accidently unleashed her hex power--almost electrocuting him!
I liked her best when she had what looked like a giant baggie on her head with her little face sticking out.
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Post by bobc on Aug 9, 2006 11:46:45 GMT -5
yeah Iron Man needed to work on his defenses against rain and other mositure.
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Post by bobc on Aug 9, 2006 10:52:06 GMT -5
Remember when Thor beat Iron Man by making it rain so he rusted and couldn't move? So basically Iron Man was at the same power level as The Tin Man in the Wizard of Oz.
Those were the good old days!
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Post by bobc on Aug 9, 2006 9:24:16 GMT -5
Yeah he would be like "Hulk--hold that punch--I gotta stagger over to that socket over there for a recharge!"
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Post by bobc on Aug 8, 2006 16:56:24 GMT -5
Yeah I have noticed that. I liked Iron Man better when he looked like a tin can with eyes, and his power source went out every five minutes. Like when the Angel almost "defeated" him by flying so high that Iron Man ran out of power and fell outta the sky trying to catch him! I'm sorry, but if you can't beat the angel...
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Post by bobc on Aug 8, 2006 9:31:34 GMT -5
That was a good argument, Bored. You win! Clap clap clap
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Post by bobc on Aug 7, 2006 11:07:34 GMT -5
I loved when Moondragon was around. She was like New York on Flavor of Love. She existed for no other reason but to cause problems--and it could be quite entertaining.
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Post by bobc on Aug 4, 2006 13:49:02 GMT -5
I wonder why Thor's power level was/is considered a problem, but Hercules' never was? Iron Man is near Thor's level too. Wonderman too.
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Post by bobc on Aug 4, 2006 11:09:55 GMT -5
I don't think Thor's so hard to write in the Avengers--the team's always had some extremely powerful members on it, including hercules, Hulk, Wonder Man, Sub-Mariner etc. I think the power differential could make for some interesting plot twists, like back in the 80's when everyone thought Thor was arrogant and full of himself, which he kind of is. BUT after all, when you're the God of Thunder you can afford to shuck off a little attitude.
I say it's all about how you use the character's abilities. I always liked to see how various member's abilities mesh into the larger unit.
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Post by bobc on Jul 27, 2006 14:27:09 GMT -5
I don't have the issues in front of me, but I would say that the two runs that stand out in my mind were the Under Siege-Olympus storylines and the Perez issues years later. What came between and after are kind of a blur. I remember that sea serpent thing (Buscema drew the issues I think) with Marrina but thought the story was bad--I started to lose interest around that time. I recall also being shocked at how bad Heroes Reborn was (from every concievable angle--it was almost like they were trying to shake off readers) but I suppose that goes without saying. The stories after Perez left were just kind of okay, pretty forgettable.
That whole Red Skull storyarch was okay I guess but I thought the Black Panther breaking the Red Skull's lower face was too much. I don't like how writers these days make the Panther some sort of boxer--I liked when he was catlike and the best acrobat Marvel had in their stable. He was more exciting then IMO
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Post by bobc on Jul 26, 2006 15:23:35 GMT -5
I agree that the run got great once Buscema joined up--Milgrom's art is just terrible. I can't see any writer rising above that.
On the positive side--yeah the Olympus story was a great follow-up, for many reasons. It allowed the high powered Avengers to seriously show what they were capable of (that chance doesn't come along often), but at the same time the lesser powered characters like Black Knight and the Wasp never got lost in the shuffle. That alone showed Stern's skill as a writer IMO. The respectful relationship between arrogant Sub-mariner and Captain America was never better shown than in this story arch, particularly when Cap gave Namor his shield. That was a Big Deal.
Asgarian--you're right that Hercules really showed his immense power against the MOE. Stern, however, also showed his vulnerability to women and alcohol too, which ultimately brought him down. That whole trap showed Zemo as a most cunning enemy/planner. Zemo deserved to be running that show.
Man it makes me feel sad to see how shallow comics have become. A great woman once said "Americans can no longer create Great Art, they can only rip it down."
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Post by bobc on Jun 27, 2006 9:01:38 GMT -5
well, they might not have been on the roster, but they was there!!!!!
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Post by bobc on Jun 26, 2006 18:40:46 GMT -5
I loved the War with Olympus storyline too. Great art, great story. I think that was the first time I realized what a great character She Hulk was/is.
Man that had to be the strongest Avengers lineup ever--She Hulk, Thor, Sub-Mariner, and Hercules all at one time. I wouldn't mess with them!
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Post by bobc on Jun 26, 2006 13:24:22 GMT -5
I personally felt that showing the Vision's thoughts, ever, was a big faux pas. I liked the Vision when he was more mysterious, when you never knew what he was really thinking. I liked the vision when he was spooky.
I barely remember that whole Vision storyline when he merged with a computer. In fact, that era was when I almost lost interest in the Avengers, mainly because I thought the art was mediocre.
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Post by bobc on Jun 26, 2006 9:30:39 GMT -5
I liked the way Hercules was taken out too. I remember reading on some forum that some fan didn't like how Stern wrote Hercules--saying he made Hercules stupid. I didn't see it that way at all. I saw Hercules as stubborn, headstrong, sexist and rowdy. In fact, I would go so far as to say Stern's run was the first time Hercules ever had a clear, defined personality. Before that, Hercules was a run-of-the-mill powerhouse super hero, IMO. I liked the personality flaws.
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Post by bobc on Jun 25, 2006 11:39:34 GMT -5
I really never paid attention to who was writing the Avengers back in those days--I was always more focused on the artist. Looking back on it, I think Stern was one of the best writers ever. I recently bought the trade paperback of "Under Siege" and was pleasantly surprised at how good it was.
I hated the Al Milgrom issues though, entirely because of the art. John B is my favorite!!
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Post by bobc on Jun 20, 2006 9:09:34 GMT -5
I couldn't think of the right villains--there are too many choices. I was literally frozen in terror.
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Post by bobc on Jun 19, 2006 19:55:13 GMT -5
I'd pick:
Vision Black Panther Scarlet Witch Captain America Wasp Iron Man Sub Mariner
vs.
uhhhhh I'm not sure the whole group from the Under Siege thingee
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Post by bobc on Jul 28, 2006 19:47:47 GMT -5
Well if we must nitpick, I seem to recall that Black Widow used her bite on Thor in that same series and it had zero effect--so taking Wonder Man out with it is a bit ridiculous. He might feel it a little, it might annoy him or distract him, but taking him out? No way in hell.
And Wolverine taking out Hercules? No way. Uh uh.
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Post by bobc on Jul 13, 2006 12:33:32 GMT -5
Me too Shiryu. In general, I'd like to see more variety when heroes are pitted against each other. It seems like it's always like-powered vs like- powered in books like this, you know cap vs Panther, Aquaman vs Sub Mariner, Green Arrow vs Hawkeye, ect . I'd like to see them mix things up--like how would Captain America do against She Hulk, or how would Thor do vs Captain Marvel? Wasp vs Vision.
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Post by bobc on Jul 12, 2006 9:20:28 GMT -5
Gotcha. I found the Black Panther/Captain America fight really disappointing. It was over in like five panels. I don't have a problem with the Panther losing, but I think it shoulda been a better fight.
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Post by bobc on Jun 6, 2006 12:49:12 GMT -5
The Black Panther wasn't beaten in Contest of Champions.
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Post by bobc on Jun 2, 2006 16:03:20 GMT -5
God dang it--they replaced the B word for "pregnant dog again.
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Post by bobc on Jun 2, 2006 16:02:38 GMT -5
They are a bunch of wierd villains who formed a group to fight the Avengers, and ended up fighting each other more. Perez and Busiek created them. I like my villains nice and bitchy
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Post by bobc on Jun 2, 2006 13:20:26 GMT -5
I want to see the Exemplars again.
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Post by bobc on Jun 1, 2006 15:38:13 GMT -5
Hey--who was the artist on Heroes Reborn? Was that Liefield? I've blotted the whole thing out of my memory, except for the Wasp and her insect look which was just vile.
I do videogames for a living and one day, I swear to God, the entire art dept went into a Rob Liefield bashing craze! Artists were frantically on the internet, trying to find the most rancid examples of his most "creative" anatomy. One guy found a drawing of Captain America that was so deformed, it looked like he had breast implants! It was awesome--so he animated Cap's breasts so they bounced to and fro. It was sheer evil!
Poor Rob, he is synonymous with bad 90's comic art. The poor thing.
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Post by bobc on Jun 1, 2006 12:18:59 GMT -5
I'm curious--how old are you guys? I'm thinking this might be a generational thing. I'm 40. Seems like a lot of people's favorite eras were when they first started reading. I started reading in the mid 70's, but quickly collected the older stuff via Marvel Triple Action. I've seen the Avengers ebb and flow over the years, and have many favorite runs.
By the way I didn't mean to imply that the early-mid 200's were the absolute worst, I just didn't like them much. Heroes Reborn was infinitely worse. I can barely stand to even think of it. Good GOD.
I'd say Bendis' run is one of the worst--but I just can't bring myself to see his work as the Avengers. It's more like Marvel Team Up or something. Only more boring.
Bored--I don't remember that Ghost Rider stuff with Thor. I think I'll buy that CD rom thingee and refresh my meory.
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Post by bobc on May 31, 2006 10:30:13 GMT -5
Okay--I just looked at the covers gallery and Dlw66, you hit the nail on the head. That whole period of the early 200's through the time John Buscema came back was just dreadful. My GOD I'm suprised any of us stuck with the Avengers through that craptastic period. I actually bursted out laughing at some of those old covers--and a few I have no memory of whatsoever, which is probably even worse.
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Post by bobc on May 31, 2006 10:15:46 GMT -5
hmmmm I can't really answer this question because I tend to just forget the periods that were bad or lame or just plain boring. For instance, I barely remember the Yellowjacket trial because it seemed so histrionic and trashy--and just plain dumb. I kinda recall those Shadow Wraith thingees as being really stupid.
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