|
Post by bobc on Sept 18, 2006 16:16:42 GMT -5
Funny you should mention Wolverine. Yeah that was a great moment for him, as far as his softer side goes. BUT--I was just re-reading the first few issues of the new X-Men, where they fight the Sentinels on that space shuttle (right before Jean Grey dies and becomes Phoenix)--and there were some GREAT Wolverine moments showing his obnoxious side! Like when Jean is trying to rip her evening gown so she could run and fight, and Wolverine just reaches over and rips the dress up to practicaly her uhhhhh, well you know! Jean says "Hey--Not so blasted short!!" and "Thank you very much--I think!" And another great moment was when the old X-Men were all talking about leaving, and everybody was all teary eyed and emotional, but Wolverine just blurts out something to the effect of "Well, if you're gonna go then SHOVE OFF--stop talking us to death!" It was so out of the blue, and so crankypants, that you had to laugh! Back then, it seemed like every other issue Jean Grey was telling him off! It was awesome!
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Sept 18, 2006 13:35:31 GMT -5
Good thread, DL.
The Black Panther's best characterization came right when he was introduced in FF 52.
I think the Scarlet Witch's best characterization was when she was learning witchcraft from Agatha Harkness, while also trying to scratch Mantis' eyes out.
The Vision's best characterization, BY FAR, was when the Grim Reaper offered him the chance to become human by taking Wonderman's body--in return for betraying the Avengers. Even today, I still think that storyarch was possibly the best in Avengers history. When the Reaper asks the Vision one last time if he'd betray the Avengers in that last panel, and the Vision just replies "Yes" with that scary illustration of him, I just about wet myself! I was like OMIGOD--THE VISION IS A TRAITOR!!!
Of course the next issue I found out he wasn't a traitor, thank GOD. AND I didn't wet myself either, if you must know.
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Sept 13, 2006 9:48:17 GMT -5
Have I died and gone to hell? Is that it? Have I died and gone STRAIGHT TO HELL?!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Sept 8, 2006 14:42:36 GMT -5
yeah and somebody needs to remind the Wasp that she's worked with these people, most of them, for thrity to forty years so what is this crap about training.
Sigh. The idiocy barely warrants a comment at this point.
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Sept 8, 2006 14:37:22 GMT -5
But Dl--she has HUGE BREASTS, and that is the important thing.
Ares' entire character schtick is that he is a God of War, in the bad sense of the term, and he brings chaos wherever he goes. Only idiot Bendis would bring him into the Avengers--in fact, I'm anything but surprised. I'm sure Red Skull will be on the roster next.
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Sept 8, 2006 14:52:34 GMT -5
Yeah I thought having those two in the Avengers diminished both titles, mainly because Reed and sue were so (obviously)identifiable as FF members. If you have a revolving door where membership is open to everyone and anyone, then membership means nothing.
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Sept 8, 2006 16:22:18 GMT -5
I really liked him too. I thought his grasp of anatomy was really good, particularly how he drew hands. How sad he only ever drew that one Avengers issue.
Did you all notice Bendis, in NA, ripped off that classic scene of Spiderwoman catching Ms. M with her legs?
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Aug 30, 2006 12:20:07 GMT -5
There was an interview with Bendis in Wizard and the new artist (I forget his name) and with his usual "grasp" of the characters, Bendis said the Avengers need a "stealth ninja" so he included the Black Widow. Someone needs to tell Bendis that she isn't a ninja, she is a former spy from the former Soviet Union
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Aug 27, 2006 21:45:46 GMT -5
Ua2--not sure if you ever saw the Liberators story from the sixties when the Wasp, Valkyrie, Wanda, Medusa and Black Widow teamed up together, but at the end of that issue the Wasp said they'd be back.
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Aug 27, 2006 21:03:37 GMT -5
Okay I'll bite. I thought Medusa, Crystal and She Hulk were all great replacements. I agree that Medusa's powers were too close to Reeds, and also agree she could certainly do more "heavy lifting." In fact a letter to the FF page once argued that if a human hair strand is stronger than steel, then Medusa should have been able to lift and throw a small car. Of course that never happened--as was always the case in the early 70's, Medusa was depowered and didn't really do much when she was on the team. All that being said, her history with the FF made her an ideal choice, if you could put aside the fact she tried to kill them all in the 60's! But why nit-pick?
Crystal was frustrating and I agree that her powers were very poorly portrayed or defined. With the exception of the time she beat the crap out of The Wizard (the whole issue was more or less a show-case for her powers since she was brand new to the team), Crystal never did much. This was a huge shame because she was/is mega powerful if you think about it. She has Storm's ability plus lots of others!! She could generate earth quakes, control fire, summon hurricane force winds strong enough to carry four people gently to the ground after a plane crash, she could summon lightning, all kinds of things. And yet she's never really been portrayed as powerful, whereas Storm has always been seen as powerful.
She-Hulk is a great character! One of the interesting things about her, other than her great sarcastic personality and tomboy attitude, is the fact that it's never been ascertained how strong she really is. Normally she is in the Thing's range, but what about when she gets angry? Is it possible that she could concievably get up to the real Hulk's level under certain conditions?
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Aug 12, 2006 21:56:47 GMT -5
Wait wait wait--I don't think I put my point across correctly--I DO want the characters in the real world! I just think that when you link a character directly to an event, like, say, the Vietnam War, within a few years that character will inevitably seem really dated. Iron Man, for example, never really dwelled on his Vietnam beginnings and rightly so--he'd be at least in his 60's now! Writers for him were right, IMO, to quietly distance IM from Vietnam. Reed and Ben, same thing with WW2.
This really is just a matter of opinion. I think Ultron Unlimited will stand the test of time because the war depicted in that storyline was made up, only existing in the Marvel world. Hence, it'll never seem dated.
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Aug 12, 2006 10:15:16 GMT -5
Dl--I'm the exact opposite. I was just reading a Fantastic Four comic from the early 70's and it had Richard Nixon in it and it kinda bothered me. I like it when comics exist in their own little world without too many real world refrences. I think it's fine to have Captain America and Namor connected to WW2, but everybody else should kin of be "timeless."
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Sept 19, 2006 17:14:56 GMT -5
Doctor Strange only wore that mask for a couple of issues. If I recall correctly Marvel was trying to make him look more mysterious but fans didn't like the new look.
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Sept 8, 2006 14:47:39 GMT -5
Yup. The term Black Leopard tag lasted exactly two issues of the FF, but T'Challa was never referred to as anything other than the Black Panther in the pages of the Avengers. In one issue--I think it was 112, Hawkeye asked BP if he'd changed his name, and BP said he decided to keep it Black Panther--since changing it made as much sense as Wanda not calling herself a witch because witches were generally thought of as ugly.
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Aug 11, 2006 14:41:38 GMT -5
hee hee!
Oh I "misspent" my youth in way worse ways than just obsessivley reading comics--but going into detail would probably get me banned. This is a family forum!
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Aug 10, 2006 18:06:58 GMT -5
And while we're on the subject-- fans today forget that the Scarlet Witch fought the Enchantress to a standstill within a few issues of Wanda being in the Avengers! She was able to cast hex after hex and it was an exciting, memorable battle. The next thing you knew, the poor thing could barely stand after casting one useless hex.
I just don't get it. It's like a mental illness male comic writers have periodically--they have to make the characters more boring and forgettable.
What caught your eye about Storm, intitially? Was it when she lost her powers and cut her hair into a craptastical mohawk? No. It was either when she fought Lorna Dayne over that airport and set the sky on fire, or when she called up a hellacious flood, sweeping all those guards away at Camp Valhalla (I think that was the name). Storm was FASCINATING because she was powerful but soft spoken and mysterious.
People want to see characters who can kick plenty of azz, and nobody wants to see a charcter either do nothing issue after issue, or get their tail kicked every issue. It's not just about power, it's about how you use your abilities to take somebody down.
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Aug 10, 2006 17:42:03 GMT -5
Hey I read through that era, Engage. About the most exciting thing I ever read in thirty years of buying comics was when Jean Grey mopped the floor with Firelord way back when Phoenix first appeared. Now THAT was exciting! Here we had this previously cancelled, useless Marvel Girl, who used to struggle to lift a bucket of nails telekinetically, easily knocking the crap out of Galactus' herald! EVERYBODY was like whoaaaa--what is going on here? And you can bet yo' azz every one of us was gonna be right there for the next issue!
Same with Electra when she appeared--she wasn't powerful but she was stunningly effective and brutal in an era when women were always goody goody! So it's not necessarilly about power, it's about making a fascinating character that makes you want to know more about her or him!
There is a reason why these ancient stories are being made into movies these days--it's because they were the storyarchs that blasted books like the X-Men and Daredevil into the stratosphere!! And every one of those writers deserved the props they have gotten over the years.
You can bet one thing--there isn't a d**n thing coming out these days that will warrant a successful movie--New Avengers, especially.
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Aug 10, 2006 9:53:49 GMT -5
OMIGOD--Dlw66 is cheating on us with The Fantastic Four!!!!!!!
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Aug 9, 2006 11:09:27 GMT -5
Remember when Jan "stung" the Sub Mariner, and her stinger (which was just a needle at the time) crumpled up when it hit his steely fish hide? I swear to God Hank Pym was always trying to get her killed by giving her crappy weapons. About all a pin could do is pee somebody like Namor off, making him even more violent!
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Aug 4, 2006 14:20:54 GMT -5
I loved that era!
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Aug 4, 2006 9:03:16 GMT -5
Remember when the Wasp was fighting Marvel Girl in their first clash with the X-Men, and the Wasp quipped that as long as no one gave Marvel Girl a fly swatter, she'd be okay? Can you imagine getting defeated with a FLY SWATTER?
The saddest thing is the "battle" between Jan and MG was a draw! I mean come on, that's just pathetic! If you can't beat a person who can be bested by a fly swatter, do you really have any business being a super hero? Hee Hee!
And remember Duo Damsel, from DC? Her power was she could change into two damsels, neither of whom could do chit--so what's the point? 2 X 0 is still 0!! And worse, the poor thing used to be Triplicate Lass, where she could become 3 useless lasses-- but apparently the writers found her too powerful, so they killed off one of her lasses. I could just see the writers panicing "SHE'S JUST TOO POWERFUL!! Imagine her running around with THREE FLY SWATTERS!!! WHAT THEN?!!!"
I recall one Avengers writer was actually told to his face, when he took over writing chores on the book, to never make Wanda very powerful. This was the one rule. It's kind of funny from todays POV.
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Aug 2, 2006 20:58:45 GMT -5
Hee hee!! I hope everyone knows I make these posts with great love! Reading these issues from when I wasn't even born helped me understand that era! Another thing I loved from those years was how you could put a cover on a comic that was a complete lie about what happened therein! It was awesome! I was discovering Marvel after Stan Lee and kirby were mostly gone--but even as a kiddo I missed their good-natured chutzpah!
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Aug 2, 2006 9:08:19 GMT -5
Hi Sharkar
Welcome! Yeah I remember Hank forcing Jan to grow using his cybernetic helmet--but to me that whole thing was a very early 60's attempt to make the male character totally in control, while making the female character borderline helpless. This happened all the time back then--Sue Richards would forget she could turn invisible until Reed reminded her, and Marvel Girl was so stupid she would have to have the Beast or Cyclops tell her to levitate herself rather than fall to her death. The sexism back then was shocking--hilarious at times. Like when the Hatemonger made the FF all hate each other, and suddenly the men started calling poor Sue "Useless," which, at the time, she was! Or when The Space Phantom informed The Wasp "BEGONE!! I have more important victims to slay!!!" hee hee! Not good for a girl's self-esteem!
Yes--I am remembering this crap off the top of my head.
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Jul 28, 2006 8:17:20 GMT -5
Right. Remember that the Wasp had actual wasp cells implanted into her to give her her powers, so this "wasp sense" is kind of like an instinct. Over the years various Avengers have remarked that Jan is "hyper sensitive to certain stimuli" as if to imply she has borderline psychic. After the 60's, to my recollection, no one ever mentioned this sixth sense again.
It's interesting that the Scarlet Witch was also shown to have a special sixth sense, particularly during the late sixties during the Arkon storyline. The Black Panther also had a sort of special "sense" where he could detect alien and supernatural presences before the others could.
My God I'm a full-scale nerd alert! I am actually remembering this stuff off the top of my head. I can't decide if I'm a tragic figure, or breathtakingly knowledgable.
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Jul 24, 2006 9:57:33 GMT -5
I liked when the Wasp had a little needle on her wrist as a stinger. My GOD she was useless back then. She seemed to serve no other purpose than to be a kidnap victim--it was awesome. And as far as Giant Man is concerned--his ability to grow has been all over the place.
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Aug 3, 2006 17:49:22 GMT -5
The version of the story I got, from someone who would certainly know, was that some people at Marvel felt that the creaters had gotten "a little too creative" around the turn of the millenium with titles like X-Static, Earth X, Alias, Runaways and other such titles. What's happening now is an attempt to reign things in. I happened to have loved that creative spurt a few years back and wish they were still on that bent.
I guess it's the age old struggle between art and making money that artists never win. It seems like these things go in waves. Right now Marvel seems to be at low tide.
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Jul 25, 2006 15:41:11 GMT -5
I don't know who that is.
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Jul 25, 2006 11:49:56 GMT -5
I'm disappointed that Black Knight isn't here to join the ranting and raving. He is really slipping...
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Jul 25, 2006 9:17:46 GMT -5
Ultron it seemed like Joe Q was a great editor in the late 90's and early 2000's, but it seems like about three years ago everything went straight to hell. I go to the comic store and can't find anything to buy these days. It's really frikkin sad.
I remember around 1999 or so bragging to friends that Marvel was in a renaissance with Perez's Avengers, the beginning of the Ultimates, Inhumans, the beginning of Priest's run on Black Panther, Alias and other books. But suddenly BOOM nothing but mediocre, half-baked nothingness
|
|
|
Post by bobc on Jul 24, 2006 13:49:20 GMT -5
I don't "have to do" anything. I am not going to put one more dime in Bendis' pocket. Giving that guy a license to murder the Avengers a second time is not something I want to be a part of.
|
|