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Post by bobc on Dec 7, 2010 18:48:51 GMT -5
Yeah I think that CA is just too newly thawed at this point--focusing more on being a man out of sync in time. If you think about it, having most everyone you knew dead would be extremely sad. I think he'll get over it in an episode or two, but like Shir said--they are already cramming so much cool stuff into each episode that there probably hasn't been time to develop CA as leader yet.
Hey--I have to ask this. Am I the only one who didn't 'get" the fact that the Black Panther threw CA's shield, saving CA from Zemo? Maybe I'm dense but I replayed that little part like five times before I got what happened. It was very cool, don't get me wrong, but for some reason it sorta lost me.
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Post by bobc on Dec 7, 2010 12:37:02 GMT -5
Hey HB--I thank GOD we actually have something to gush over after six years of Bendis! I agree with all your analysis! GUSH AWAY!!
Whoever is running this show obviously understands the Avengers! And Marvel in general! I must also add that this Avengers cartoon proves that the people on this forum are NOT opposed to change, as long as it makes sense and stays with the spirit of the original Avengers. I don't mind Captain America fighting Hydra instead of nazis at all--what I care about is Cap having nobility, providing leadership, etc.
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Post by bobc on Dec 6, 2010 18:08:18 GMT -5
I'm with you, Starry. As big a Marvel fan as I am, I couldn't even watch any of the earlier Marvel cartoons, they were so lame. But this one is so well done!
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Post by bobc on Dec 6, 2010 9:53:55 GMT -5
I don't know if those peripheral villains will show up--but good lord--already we've seen Modok, Enchantress, Zemo Executioner, Hydra, the Leader, Red Skull, Man Ape, and the list goes on and on. It's almost mind-boggling! In the older Marvel cartoons, they used to just repeat the same two or three stale villains--probably because they wanted to economize on the number of new animations they had to come up with.
I agree that Hank Pym has really benefited from this. The way they show him changing to Giant Man is usually very striking and impressive.
I also think the Wasp comes off as really funny. She has some great lines--so does Tony Stark.
Guys go on as many forums as you can and spread the word! We have to keep this on the air!
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Post by bobc on Dec 5, 2010 13:11:56 GMT -5
Since I'm already gushing, I'd also like to add that I love the weird little team-ups that go on in the series, like the hulk with Hawkeye, Wasp with Thor, that kinda thing. I always like it when a lower powered super hero is teamed with a bigger powered guy--especially when the writer has the chops to make the lower powered one hold his/her own.
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Post by bobc on Dec 5, 2010 11:31:58 GMT -5
Good LORD--you both read my mind! It's almost like a rule that if you make a Marvel animated series, you have to have the dumbest voice-overs imaginable. Remember that dreadful X-Men cartoon where Storm's voice sounded like a cheesy Victorian era white woman? The minute I heard that, I stopped watching it! She was an African Goddess for God's sake! And I seem to recall seeing some cartoon where the Scarlet Witch had the exact same voice as Storm, only saying dumber stuff like "Winds of Destiny, strike!!" Some crap like that!
But this new Avengers has none of that! God forbid they actually found a black person to do the Panther, one with an African accent! The only character I'm iffy on is Thor, but you know it's a small gripe. Overall--great
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Post by bobc on Dec 5, 2010 11:19:06 GMT -5
But...but I liked Jan.
sniff.
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Post by bobc on Dec 4, 2010 9:57:24 GMT -5
It should be moved! Here in Austin it's on on a Wednesday night! Seems like a strange night and time to attract a young audience.
As some of you know, I do video games for a living, so many of the people I work with are into comics, sci fi and that kinda thing. Yesterday I went around telling people about this great new cartoon--and only one person knew about it (and loved it)!
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Post by bobc on Dec 3, 2010 16:50:29 GMT -5
Yeah thanks, Shir! You are a lifesaver! I had my snout in those Youtube videos all last night!
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Post by bobc on Dec 2, 2010 17:21:18 GMT -5
I had no idea this series was even out until a few days ago. I really am enjoying it, too. It's actually pretty d**n funny at times too. Like when the Black Panther first appears and knocks them around--and the Panther tells them he has come there because he needs their help. The Wasp responds "Why? I mean you basically just mopped the floor with us! Why would you want us?" LOL!
I love the array of characters--just the variety of villains is really exciting! All classic characters!
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Post by bobc on Nov 30, 2010 9:22:44 GMT -5
I'm with you. How in the H do you form an emotional attachment to a character who changes identities like underwear? I was thinking the other day that the main reason I never read Thunderbolts (until recently) is because I didn't feel any ties to any of the main characters. That is really important to keep a fan reading.
Is Marvel just out of ideas? Are people losing that creative spark?
Now it is possible that this new book might work, but it sounds like a really, really bad idea.
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Post by bobc on Nov 29, 2010 12:29:12 GMT -5
Didn't you hear yet, HB? The Black Panther is now replacing Daredevil as "The Man Without Fear." I am not kidding. As if there wasn't enough identity confusion going on already. There is also a "Klaws of the Panther" featuring the female BP, and it's just mediocre.
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Post by bobc on Nov 21, 2010 11:24:38 GMT -5
God I hope so. The giant sized Tbolts vs The Avengers, which just came out, is really, really good. In fact I haven't seen characterization this good in years! The Ghost is creepy and freakish, Moonstone is manipulative and spoiled, Luke Cage has never been handled better--the whole book is just great and very imaginative. The only other comic out there, IMO, which is almost as good is Avengers Academy.
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Post by bobc on Nov 19, 2010 13:50:19 GMT -5
WHAT?!!!!! You have got to be kidding me. That is the best comic Marvel has on the shelves! In fact I was just about to start a thread about how good this new double sized issue is!!!
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Post by bobc on Oct 25, 2010 9:17:26 GMT -5
Starry and HB--I really enjoyed that issue, and the series in general, but I would have to agree that although the writing is really good, Secret Avengers just doesn't feel like an Avengers comic to me. It feels more like a Moon Knight or Daredevil title. Regardless, I'll keep buying it because it is a quality comic.
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Post by bobc on Oct 21, 2010 9:35:31 GMT -5
Waspie--I remember that!! I remember that exchange, and thinking, well duh!
Yeah definitely it was Sue and the Wasp who got the shaft in the early years. How can any of us forget when Hank Pym sent his poor wife into battle against the Sub-Mariner with a safety pin stuck to her wrist? And it bent when she stung him? Then Hank really upped the ante by giving her a compressed air gun as a stinger! You know, like the stuff you buy to clean the inside of your computer! Good GOD it's a wonder the Wasp wasn't dead by issue #1!!
Even my beloved Mark Millar made a reference to the Wasp's uselessness in the Ultimates. When the Liberators captured all of the world's super heroes except the Wasp, one of the soldiers made mention of that fact--and the other soldier replied "Who cares? Who cares about someone who can make herself smaller and weaker?" He had a point! And when they finally captured the Wasp, one of the thugs said "How did someone as pathetic as you even get a spot on this team? I mean is that what you do? Sneak around looking for a REAL super hero?"
Hee hee! Fortunately things got better for Jan over the years!
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Post by bobc on Oct 20, 2010 14:48:07 GMT -5
Georgia--I have always wanted to research how many times the Wasp was captured in the early days of the Avengers. Maybe I'll come up with a list for you this weekend. It really was virtually every issue. At one point it got so bad that she was kidnapped and they didn't even bother to show how it happened. Sue Richards was also captured a lot.
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Post by bobc on Oct 19, 2010 16:36:50 GMT -5
A friend once described Marvel as being like a giant slime mold--sometimes it grows and sometimes it contracts. We've been in a contraction period for a long time but I am seeing some hope. I really love Avengers Academy and Thunderbolts, and I like Secret Avengers and The Black Widow.
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Post by bobc on Oct 15, 2010 9:05:49 GMT -5
Hee hee! Spiderwaspie I love that stuff too! Remember when the Hate Monger turned his ray on the Fantastic Four and their real feelings about Sue came out? The Human Torch shoved her and said "Outta the way, USELESS!!" And then there was the time Doctor Doom set up some hologram showing Reed swapping spit with some other chick, and Sue shrieked "I thought you loved me?!!" and Reed replied "LOVE YOU?!! You're lucky I even TOLERATE YOU!!"
Hee hee!
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Post by bobc on Oct 12, 2010 12:37:56 GMT -5
Basically the female super-heroes were all kidnapped every other issue. This started to change in the late 70's, particularly in the X-men when females like Storm, Polaris and Phoenix were the most powerful people on the team.
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Post by bobc on Sept 12, 2010 17:34:54 GMT -5
Exactly. And then there was a period when BP was riding a motorcycle, and using hand-guns! I recently saw some of those issues at my comic store and I just groaned. Marvel has been flailing around looking for an identity for character for decades. They need to get back to the basics of the character as he first appeared in the FF, but update the technology he uses. This WAS starting to happen and now the book is canceled. I think so many bad story arcs have occurred over the years that even Panther fans stopped buying and paying attention. You can't blame them.
An Avenger, The King of a technologically advanced civilization who is almost on a level with Reed Richards, fighting the Klan and Wind Eagle? Come on...
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Post by bobc on Sept 8, 2010 16:50:25 GMT -5
I am loving Thunderbolts.
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Post by bobc on Sept 6, 2010 14:00:30 GMT -5
But HB--if the Wasp remembered she had full-sized human strength when someone captured her in a glass bottle, what kind of kidnap victim would she be? Growing and breaking the bottle would also be problematic for writers who saw her as kidnapping bait. Actually Jan now is strong enough to bend a metal pole with her bare hands, thanks to the changes John Byrne did to her in Marvel Team Up way back when. I recall one letter in the early 80's in the Avengers saying how tired people were of the Wasp and Yellowjacket constantly flitting around villains but never defeating them! RIGHT! Around that time when Hank and Jan came back to the team (during the first Perez period/with a few issues by John B), they were incredibly boring and added nothing to the team. Thank GOD things improved dramatically in a few years!
And yup--The Scarlet Witch's power level was all over the place in the early years. When she first joined she was easily the most powerful on the team--in fact, she fought the Enchantress to a standstill by herself, casting hex after hex. A few years later, her hexes were so lame she almost never made a difference on the team. She also passed out after one or two hexes, which really made her more of a liability than anything. No wonder no female was ever able to carry her own book.
The first two super powerful female characters were Thundra and Valkyrie in the early 70's, although writers quickly de-powered Valkyrie. Next up were She Hulk and Storm and the updated Jean Grey. Then Wanda got a power-up. Then the Wasp.
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Post by bobc on Sept 2, 2010 17:18:34 GMT -5
I wrote this a while back, but I'll repeat it--I distinctly recall one Marvel writer (can't remember which) saying that when he took over the Avengers, the previous writer told him that he should take great care in not making the Scarlet Witch "too powerful." I believe this was during the era when Wanda would basically pass out after one useless hex. I was shocked to read that! One of the reasons I found the New X-Men so fascinating for a while was the fact that all the women were very powerful, right up there with the guys. I mean what would a reader rather see, a Jean Grey struggling to telekinetically lift her own body weight, or a Jean Grey tearing Sentinels apart? The visual aspect of displaying her power in those mid seventies years was really exciting too--way better than the weak little dotted line that used to show her telekinetic ability! And remember when Storm fought Polaris and the entire Manhattan sky was filled with their powers clashing? now THAT was exciting!
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Post by bobc on Sept 2, 2010 15:33:45 GMT -5
Sorry to hear about your parent's divorce, my friend! That's always tough on a kid.
Yeah Sue Richards is one of the most unbeatable characters in Marvel. I was reading one of the more recent Essential FF volumes, and you could actually tell when a new writer came on board halfway through because Sue's abilities were going up and up and up--then suddenly she was straight back to cowering behind a fragile force field. It was really annoying. This was years before Byrne wrote the FF.
I will say one thing about Byrne's reign at Marvel--he was the guy who turned both the Wasp and Sue into FORMIDABLE characters. In fact, as much as I loved the 60's Marvel titles, the maniacal insistence of writers to keep female heroes weak was really annoying. I'm not sure whose idea it was that this would make them more popular--I guess maybe it was just the times.
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Post by bobc on Aug 30, 2010 17:14:30 GMT -5
You know HB, if someone asked me (off the top of my head) when the most exciting time for the FF was, I would say the period when Sue left Reed back in the mid 70's. I loved how the Frightful Four ambushed the Thing, loved how Medusa rescued him, loved the introduction of a powerful new female villain (Thundra--back when there were no super-strong females), loved how Sue fought the FRFR by herself, and loved the fight between her and Reed which resulted in her leaving him. Top notch art by John B and Tom P, and great writing.
I agree about the endless rebooting, the endless alternate realities (zzzzzzz), and the fact that too many Next Big Events get really tiresome. I also agree that the FF has become too isolated--they used to be the cornerstone of the Marvel Universe. I was really happy to see them fight alongside Namor and Black Panther in Doom War.
Sue became way more interesting when her powers improved dramatically. Nothing was more boring than watching her cowering behind an ever-fragile, about-to-shatter force field. When she began using her force field as an offensive weapon was when Sue really came into her own. Sue's ability to turn things invisible is a VERY powerful weapon, too, if you think about it. Why hasn't she ever made someone's weapon disappear, fooling them into thinking it was really gone? Why has she not caused any bad guys to slam into a wall she's made vanish (okay, she did this one time with Doc Doom)? Why hasn't she effected an ambush by turning her team-mates invisible for a surprise attack? Made someone's clothes vanish so that the embarrassment would render him ineffectual?
Writers also need to make the Torch's powers more interesting. He is capable of drawing heat OUT of the air, as Ice Man does, but this has only been shown once that I can recall. He should develop those abilities.
Howzabout Reed? A good writer could make his powers way more interesting. Why have they never evolved? If he can become super pliable, why can't he become super hard as well? The Sandman can!
But most of all, bring back the FRFR, Annilhus, Mole Man, Molecule Man, The Hulk, Sub Mariner, ect.
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Post by bobc on Aug 30, 2010 13:40:42 GMT -5
Hey guys--honestly Sharky and HB--I loved that job. We had several boys who totally got their lives together and that made it all worthwhile.
Thanks for the Gage background. I just re-read these first three AA books this weekend, and yeah, they were/are every bit as good as I said.
This book, if it is not lost in a sea of mediocre Avengers titles, and gets some promo, will be The Next Big Thang.
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Post by bobc on Aug 30, 2010 9:26:24 GMT -5
I haven't been reading FF these days--picked up a couple of issues over the past year or so and just never got interested. To me, the FF is at it's best when there are lots of guest stars. AND they have possibly the greatest array of super villains in comics, which was shown in considerable splendor in issue #100. For me to buy the FF, I'd wanna see She Hulk and Tigra stopping in for a few issues, Medusa, people like that.
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Post by bobc on Aug 28, 2010 11:00:40 GMT -5
HB--I don't think there are too many characters. For me, the mark of "too many characters" is when I stop caring about them--and after only three issues, I absolutely love these kids! I haven't cared about a superhero group like this since the New X-Men came out in '75. Make no mistake here--even though there are plenty of Avengers running in and out, the focus is always on the core kids.
Who is this Gage guy? He is AMAZING. Is he new? His ability to write moody, immature kid dialogue is just amazing to me. I'm not going to do a spoiler here, but what a couple of the kids plan at the end of the "Scared Straight" storyline in issue #3 is really, really brilliant! It's the first time I've been able to take Osbourne seriously in his recent ascension in the Marvel echelon.
I love that the Academy kids are kinda sneaky and think they are smarter than the grown ups. I also love how they fight with each other, too.
The scene with Valkyrie is HILARIOUS. Purists may complain that V is too "Asgardian" but I found the whole sequence very funny.
I think Gage is my favorite writer now!
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Post by bobc on Aug 27, 2010 12:38:53 GMT -5
I'm liking this comic and I especially like how the artist is drawing Ant Man. He always draws him from such an angle that really shows his diminutive size--that shot of him hanging upside down from a wire was especially cool!
I'm not sure Valkyrie, as much as I love her character, is right for this team. I suppose when I think of "Secret Avengers" I think more of more stealthy characters--those who can fly under the radar. I think Moon Knight will work out in time.
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