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Post by spiderwasp on May 6, 2013 21:37:01 GMT -5
Thanks for the link and the updates Shiryu. Didn't really the whole Wizard nonsense was just a coverup for more nonsense. However, at least it does provide an out (Not that anyone will ever use it.) Since Sandy's evil tendencies were put there rather than just being a change of heart, someone could still find out what the Wizard did and undo it. I think it would actually make a good storyline to have Sandman hurt because he thought he had earned their trust but they were so quick to accept his return to villainy without question. Now, once in control of his own free will, he'd have to make a choice. Should he be more angry at the Wizard, who simply acted as expected or at the heroes who abandoned him? If I were able to write a story for Marvel, I think that's the one I'd write.
As for Julia Carpenter - the new Madame Web huh? Why does everyone have to be the new something? It sounds pretty bad to me but, as I said before, I haven't read an issue of Spider-man since "Brand New Day" so I can only offer my initial reactions, nothing more.
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Post by ultron69 on May 7, 2013 7:24:46 GMT -5
Hm, I read those issues with Machine Man but sadly, can't remember much about his membership with the team. He's one of those Marvel characters you know about but who seems to inhabit the fringes of the MU. I remember rediscovering Machine Man when re-reading Avengers #287-290, and thinking, "hey, I like this character". Unfortunatley, it hasn't been easy locating Machine Man back issues to follow up my interest.
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Post by ultron69 on May 7, 2013 7:26:35 GMT -5
Good updates, Shiryu.
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Post by sharkar on May 7, 2013 9:59:39 GMT -5
Yes, I agree; that was a fascinating read. Many thanks to Shiryu, and an exalt--number 100!
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Post by wundagoreborn on May 7, 2013 11:07:15 GMT -5
A late submission for Living Lightning. Not my favorite portrayal of him, but a cool, creepy image:
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Post by wundagoreborn on May 7, 2013 11:14:24 GMT -5
Really?? It was that blasted John Byrne AGAIN?? As much as we beef about this crop of modern writers taking unjustified liberties w/ the characters, I guess it's worth remembering that this particular artist/writer superstar really did set the precedent for it a decade or so earlier. "I don't like how other writers have grown this character, so I'm just going to arbitrarily change it on a whim. Because my perspective and personal taste clearly have the ascendant priority. . . " Gnargh! Here you have it. Scroll down the article (which is very good in its own right) and you see Byrne's pages with Sandman's return to being a bad guy. And the Thing is greatly out of character there too goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2013/03/28/abandoned-love-so-is-sandman-a-good-guy-or-a-bad-guy-or-what/The article says it's Mackie and Byrne. Marvel db only gives Byrne a penciler credit, no writing. ??
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Post by Shiryu on May 8, 2013 18:57:29 GMT -5
Yes, I agree; that was a fascinating read. Many thanks to Shiryu, and an exalt--number 100! Thank you! I don't have the issue at hands, but, knowing Byrne, I'd assume he would at the very least be co-plotter. I'll check it out ASAP.
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Post by humanbelly on May 8, 2013 19:02:22 GMT -5
A late submission for Living Lightning. Not my favorite portrayal of him, but a cool, creepy image: This was one of my favorite covers from AVENGERS FOREVER, and I loved this team. My only regret, really, was that we didn't get to see enough of them. But every one of them was a solid choice on Busiek's part, no question. It had the unusual effect of making me want to track down the back issues for this team that had really never existed before, so I could catch up on their history. (!!!) Ol' Miguel didn't really ever light up the Marvel Universe, did he? I certainly remember him in general in WCA, but don't have any particular memory of what sort of character he was. Part of the problem, of course, is that lightning/electrical powers aren't terribly unique, and that "pure" energy form he eventually adopted always tended to get visually lost as part of the usual background stuff (like blast effects, speed lines, things like that). It became an unintentional camoflage because it resembled the visual shorthand of other common effects. I liked the fact that his origin was linked with the old Legion of the Living Lightning that never made it out of its initial attempt at world-conquering in Tales to Astonish. I guess I liked that he was hispanic. . . but I don't remember if it felt like tokenism. And I think the fact that he's gay is very, very cool---although it still falls in the realm of having a "safe" (and not particularly popular) character come out. Mostly, I remember him as a solid, dependable utility superhero-- a fine guy to fill out the team, but not particularly interesting in the long run. HB
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Post by spiderwasp on May 8, 2013 21:48:03 GMT -5
Okay, here we go with one that I've seen show up on some "Least favorite Avenger" list. I actually liked Crystal but I do see some faults. Her powers were a little weakly defined and she always tended to have a little too much personal drama that she was the center of. I still mostly found her to be pretty interesting though (Well, maybe not the 1960s FFs when she was just a pretty face). Unfortunately for poor Crys, she showed up just in time for the bomber jacket phase which doesn't help to endure her to anyone. She was also there to interact with white Vision. Not to mention, it was an era of bad art and so many stories involving the Shiar that I never wanted to hear the words again. Finally, she was right in time to lead into the Crossing and Onslaught. The cards were not in her favor. I thnk this one really captures who Crystal is and her position within the MU. There are actually few characters with strong connections in so many ways. This cover makes me list just because it was so unusual.
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Post by ultron69 on May 9, 2013 7:39:47 GMT -5
My problem with Crystal is the era in which she showed up - bad writing and bad art, plus the awful bomber jacket you mentioned. I' m re-reading old Avengers and am up to this period (in fact, I just read the two issues you've posted last weekend) and to be honest, I'm having a hard time making it through these issues. It's more like work than pleasure. Besides the aforementioned bad art, some of the elements I have about the latter day X-Men and 90's Marvel in general are in force here; Everybody looks and acts militant and has an attitude (Cap even condones this new, ultra-violent Avengers team!), everybody has a scowl on every panel of every page, alternate future timeline characters (Magdelene, Swordsman) become regular members, I could go on, but I won't. I don't like Crystal's characterization in these issues, but what they did to Sersi is an absolute crime. She was a fun loving, Janet Van Dyne like character, and they turned he into a violent "tough broad" with a really bad attitude, like just about every other 90's Marvel character. Just what we needed. Sigh.
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Post by spiderwasp on May 11, 2013 15:28:53 GMT -5
Okay, this next entry could just as well be forgotten but here she is an anyway - Magdolene. Yep, that's her. There she is again Okay, I know usually only put 3 covers but how could I choose between this two images?
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Post by ultron69 on May 14, 2013 6:48:36 GMT -5
Ugh, magdelene. She reminds me too much of Biship, Cable, et. al. These covers are not bad, though (even though I disike the art from this period). They are at least dynamic.
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Post by spiderwasp on May 15, 2013 19:56:04 GMT -5
I know my last entry was Magdolene but if you thought it couldn't get worse, I have one word for you; Deathcry. Not only does the basic cover here not impress me but the Double Feature stuff on it really was tacky. I didn't mind the concept, just the layout. Don't have much good to say about this one either. This was a pretty rough period. Luckily, it didn't last that long. Went outside the box for this one. Surprisingly, this series wasn't that bad. I'm not raving or anything but for a series that featured Deathcry and Dr. Druid, it wasn't bad
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Post by Marvel Boy on May 15, 2013 23:52:16 GMT -5
Wow, I have never heard of Magdelene before now. She looks like Marvel's version of Big Barda.
Those are some 'busy' covers though. Take Cap's shield off of #364 and it could easily by a '90s X-Men cover.
Who are the others characters on the cover to #385? Deathcry, Thunderstrike and Quicksilver are all I recognize.
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Post by ultron69 on May 16, 2013 12:12:53 GMT -5
Those are some 'busy' covers though. Take Cap's shield off of #364 and it could easily by a '90s X-Men cover. That's probably the point. In the 90's, every Marvel team book was an X-Men rip-off, as if they hadn't milked the cash cow enough with all of the mutants an X-titles. Who are the others characters on the cover to #385? Deathcry, Thunderstrike and Quicksilver are all I recognize. Hercules and Crystal, in typically god-awful 90's costumes. Herk in a tank top and Crystal in a bomber jackwet, just what I buy comics for. sigh.
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Post by Crimson Cowl on May 16, 2013 14:24:29 GMT -5
As a self-professed fan of Byrne as a writer and artist (although he comes across as an unpleasant nutter in his various rantings and recriminations in real life) I would generally defend his characterizations. I've not read the Sandman retooling but I tend to agree that turning him into a full on hero was a mistake.
For me the point was, and should have remained, that Sandman was a 'heavy', a criminal who did jobs and liked to fight, but wasn't someone who was really evil and there were lines that he wouldn't cross. He was someone who could respect the Thing and that they had both taken their licks -that was just the kind of guy he was. He could be hroic in certain circumstances, but turning him into a sensitive do-gooder was just wrong for me. So whether Byrne or whoever is responsible I'd rather see him as a more morally ambiguous character, with parts both good and bad rather than as the cartoon villain or hero, both of which he's had the misfortune to be depicted as at various times. For me, he's a professional tough guy and there's things he'll do and things he won't -but he's certainly not warm and cuddly.
I've just been slagging off Bob Harrass's period in another thread, and I'm delighted to see the mauling of Magdalene and Deathcry here. I don't think either of them's powers were ever very clearly defined at all. The complete antithesis of what marvel Comics are about IMO. They just seemed to be there to make up the numbers as generic super people who looked the part for whatever the hell it was that they were going for at the time (as people have noted, probably something with an X in it). To reinforce this I don't think that either character ever did anything significant whatsoever. Does anyone know what their powers were? I know Magdalene had a shooty stick thing and Deathcry had some Sh'iar connection but that's about all I could safely say.
I've always loved Crystal but I don't think anyone's ever written her very well, she's always just been '60's blonde girl', like something from a Mary Quant ad. Pretty but pointless. Bob Harrass of course did worst of all with that grisly love triangle. Yech! As noted, the bomber jacket was indeed shameful.
Another problem with her is that she's always been rubbish. She can control earth, air fire and water -and each one of them badly. The result is that she can never do any effective harm to any supervillains in any fight ever. Crystal could (should?) be awesome with power over the four primal elements she could rival Black Bolt for raw power if actually portrayed as a decent character. Instead she continued to be used as a pushover who needed to be saved and as a likely hostage. In fairness this was consistent with prior portrayals, but I've always felt the character deserved better -especially when you consider that an already powerful (and forceful) character like Sersi was simultaneously being portrayed with a massive and utterly unecessary power hike up to omnipotent Molecule Man type levels.
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Post by ultron69 on May 17, 2013 7:29:50 GMT -5
Another problem with her is that she's always been rubbish. She can control earth, air fire and water -and each one of them badly. The result is that she can never do any effective harm to any supervillains in any fight ever. Crystal could (should?) be awesome with power over the four primal elements she could rival Black Bolt for raw power if actually portrayed as a decent character. Instead she continued to be used as a pushover who needed to be saved and as a likely hostage. In fairness this was consistent with prior portrayals, but I've always felt the character deserved better -especially when you consider that an already powerful (and forceful) character like Sersi was simultaneously being portrayed with a massive and utterly unecessary power hike up to omnipotent Molecule Man type levels. There were times with the Avengers where she pulled off some impressive feats (though unfortunately I don't specifically remember any) but this seemed inconsistent to the point where I didn't realy have a handle on her powers. She's a godess one issue and an idle bystander the next three issues.
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Post by spiderwasp on May 17, 2013 17:41:20 GMT -5
Okay, we're finally back to someone I liked even though we didn't see much of him; Darkhawk. I only bought Avengers Arena #1 but haven't picked one up. I know he's being featured heavily which isn't good. Doesn't that mean he's likely to die (If he hasn't already) This isn't a great cover but it's not bad. I certainly features DH This is definitely a War Machine cover but, as I said, we didn't see much of DH The best of the Darkhawk covers. Actually, I just plain like this one. Don't remember the story much, but the cover's good.
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Post by spiderwasp on May 19, 2013 21:32:34 GMT -5
Okay, this is a two-fer. I loved Justice and Firestar as Avengers. It just so happens that I picked the same three covers for each of them. What I really loved about them (Justice especially) was that, through him, you felt the excitement and the honor that went with being an Avenger. Notice I said went. Now that the honor is bestowed on everyone and his brother, I don't see that feeling returning. I miss it. Good cover that depicts a tough choice. The honor and dream of a lifeline or your friends who have been there for you through some very tough times? Not their best cover, but not bad. Just an overall nice image.
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Post by ultron69 on May 20, 2013 6:54:55 GMT -5
Darkhawk? Never heard of him. He's after my time (luckily). I know Justice, and of course Firestar from the New Warriors (coming about just as I was getting out of comics) but never knoew them as Avengers. I was always surprised how long it took Firestar to make it from the little screen to the four color magic.
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Post by Crimson Cowl on May 20, 2013 11:59:43 GMT -5
Darkhawk? Never heard of him. He's after my time (luckily). I know Justice, and of course Firestar from the New Warriors (coming about just as I was getting out of comics) but never knoew them as Avengers. I was always surprised how long it took Firestar to make it from the little screen to the four color magic. I just looked that up as I didn't think it had been that long. I guess the cartoons played a couple of years later over here so there was less of an apparent gap. I really liked Claremont's use of her in the X Men and I wish they'd continued to use her that way as it made her a much more interesting character. Unfortunately the demise of the Hellions in Marvel's first round of character slaughter put the kibosh on any chance of that. I was totally uninterested in her as an Avenger (or Justice for that matter).
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Post by wundagoreborn on May 20, 2013 15:27:55 GMT -5
Love me some Darkhawk. I'm closing in completing my set of his original solo book. I wish his tenure with the WCA had been longer and more active.
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Post by starfoxxx on May 20, 2013 15:48:46 GMT -5
Love me some Darkhawk. I'm closing in completing my set of his original solo book. I wish his tenure with the WCA had been longer and more active. Hey wundagoreborn, I'm not sure if you read current Marvel comics, but Darkhawk appears in the Avengers Arena series (at least the first few issues, I gave Av Arena a shot, but it lost my interest after the first few issues) I was never a Darkhawk fan, but for all the Darkhawk fans out there, I hope he survives Arcade's new Murderworld, .
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Post by wundagoreborn on May 21, 2013 15:25:30 GMT -5
Love me some Darkhawk. I'm closing in completing my set of his original solo book. I wish his tenure with the WCA had been longer and more active. Hey wundagoreborn, I'm not sure if you read current Marvel comics, but Darkhawk appears in the Avengers Arena series (at least the first few issues, I gave Av Arena a shot, but it lost my interest after the first few issues) I was never a Darkhawk fan, but for all the Darkhawk fans out there, I hope he survives Arcade's new Murderworld, . Thanks for the suggestion. My new comic budget is slim, but I was tempted toward Arena for this very reason. Then I heard some podcast chatter that suggested he'd been killed off. Not sure if that turned out to be real, but just hearing the possibility made me mad so I never bought the book.
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Post by sharkar on May 22, 2013 22:23:47 GMT -5
Who are the others characters on the cover to #385? Deathcry, Thunderstrike and Quicksilver are all I recognize. Hercules and Crystal, in typically god-awful 90's costumes. Herk in a tank top and Crystal in a bomber jacket, just what I buy comics for. sigh. And the big, floating (red)head in the middle of that mess is Natasha. Btw I love your old school avatar, Marvel Boy--now that's a great cover! ;D
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Post by ultron69 on May 23, 2013 11:37:01 GMT -5
Who are the others characters on the cover to #385? Deathcry, Thunderstrike and Quicksilver are all I recognize. Hercules and Crystal, in typically god-awful 90's costumes. Herk in a tank top and Crystal in a bomber jacket, just what I buy comics for. sigh. And the big, floating (red)head in the middle of that mess is Natasha. Btw I love your old school avatar, Marvel Boy--now that's a great cover! ;D For some reason, Marvel Boy's avatar (and my own!) doesn't show up for me. What issue is it?
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Post by Crimson Cowl on May 23, 2013 15:53:38 GMT -5
For some reason, Marvel Boy's avatar (and my own!) doesn't show up for me. What issue is it? It's thor 126, where goldilocks takes on Hercules.
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Post by Marvel Boy on May 23, 2013 21:35:09 GMT -5
Who are the others characters on the cover to #385? Deathcry, Thunderstrike and Quicksilver are all I recognize. Hercules and Crystal, in typically god-awful 90's costumes. Herk in a tank top and Crystal in a bomber jacket, just what I buy comics for. sigh. And the big, floating (red)head in the middle of that mess is Natasha. Btw I love your old school avatar, Marvel Boy--now that's a great cover! ;D Thank you. I find one can never go wrong with Kirby. But that's Hercules?! Geezus, that is so wrong and horrible on so many levels. Avengers #25 (vol. 3), I love that cover, simple, elegant, powerful. In fact, wasn't that image made into a t-shirt? I like Firestar better than Justice. Here in Avengers, I did like Justice but his history and timeline was always confusing to me. As for Firestar, I was surprised to see how long it took her to make it to the comics as well. Imagine my surprise when I saw this on the rack many moons ago: Ah, the good ol' days.
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Post by spiderwasp on May 23, 2013 22:51:52 GMT -5
I was always at odds with how I felt about Triathlon. I think the character had potential but just never really connected. For one thing, the whole "Strength of 3 men" didn't seem like a great power to me. I've seen pretty much every Avenger defeat more than 3 mean with ease so that doesn't seem like a big deal. There was also his association with the Triune Understanding which dragged him down as a character. I didn't hate him but I was just waiting for his big moment and it never came. Anyway, here's some of his covers. He certainly entered with a bang He strikes a decent pose in this one I suppose I picked this one because he appears pretty useful.
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Post by ultron69 on May 24, 2013 7:17:01 GMT -5
For some reason, Marvel Boy's avatar (and my own!) doesn't show up for me. What issue is it? It's thor 126, where goldilocks takes on Hercules. Thanks!
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