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Post by BoredYesterday on Mar 8, 2006 14:15:24 GMT -5
Just read the Avengers issue of this comic, and this definately qualifes as one of the greatest Avengers stories of all time. Not THE greatest, but notable for many reasons.
Near the climax of the story, the Dread Dormammu is using the power of a mystical artifact to merge his supermatural universe with our own. This is a reality-bending event to rival House of M, only much more exciting.
As the Avengers and Defenders confront him, he takes out all of the Defenders with one power blast, then he takes out most of the Avengers by creating a field of quicksand under their feet! Just like that -- Oh no -- quicksand. Thor and Iron Man are mystically robbed of their power-granting equipment, and it's finally up to lonely old Scarlet Witch. She's on her own against the Dread Dormammu himself.
So she zaps him with a hex bolt and the energy in his weapon releases itself, removes all his power and drives Loki utterly insane.
Telling you. It was great. Does anybody else love this storyline or care to comment?
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Post by bobc on Mar 8, 2006 14:28:02 GMT -5
Of course!! From an era when people actually knew how to write a coherent, fast-paced, interesting story. The writer also understood ALL the characters and it showed. Which is more than I can say for some writers whose initials start with BMB.
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Post by Shiryu on Mar 9, 2006 8:22:29 GMT -5
Which is more than I can say for some writers whose initials start with BMB. Wonder who you are talking about ;D I read the reprint of the Avengers/Defenders war and enjoyed it a lot. The art was a bit, don't know, rough in the Defenders issues, but all in all it was a solid story with some very nice battles (especially Thor vs Hulk and Silver Surfer vs Vision). Definitely worth a read !
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Post by Yellowjacket on Mar 21, 2006 9:16:42 GMT -5
I enjoyed it as well. And I was kind of surprised that the storyline worked so well, overall nice plot and even the battles between the individual Avengers and Defenders are felicitous, where I was worried they might be dull and boring, but they´re not at all.
But I think this was just some kind of warming up for Steve Englehart, thereafter it get´s even better, the whole Celestial Madonna/Kang/Vison/Torch arc is as twisted as brilliant. Okay, maybe a bit (too) much Kang, but hey, he is well handled and he is one hell of a villain, so he deserves it. ;D
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Post by Nutcase65 on May 6, 2007 16:08:05 GMT -5
Having just finished the collection, this story stand out as one of the most enjoyable for me. It had so many classic Avenger and classic comic book moments.
This is one of the stories that I actually singled out to go back and just soak up after the marathon ended.
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Post by dlw66 on Jun 20, 2007 8:53:27 GMT -5
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Post by von Bek on Jun 20, 2007 9:35:59 GMT -5
Thanks for the info, and happy birthday!
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Post by Engage on Jun 20, 2007 12:19:29 GMT -5
All TPBs should be made with bookstore friendly covers. They always rock.
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Jun 20, 2007 17:00:10 GMT -5
Nice! Some of those issues are hard to come by, and a little expensive. Defenders 10, especially, for some reason always costs way more than I think it should.
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Post by Shiryu on Jun 20, 2007 17:10:26 GMT -5
Is it me or the book in the picture looks a lot thicker than it should be ? It's almost the size of an essential, whereas the TPB is much thinner...
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Post by dlw66 on Jun 21, 2007 8:54:10 GMT -5
I thought so as well. When I looked it up on Amazon, there is a page difference between this version and the tpb; I think it was only a matter of 6-8 pages, however. My guess is that this is just a stock image of a book, and they've superimposed the cover image. Interestingly, there were two covers in the solicits that I saw -- neither of these have original artwork. Although this is certainly affordable at $20 cover (less than $14 on the Internet), new cover art is always appreciated!! Here is the alternate cover -- not sure if either of these images will end up being what the consumer sees in autumn...
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Post by Shiryu on Jun 21, 2007 17:21:09 GMT -5
Could be, I've seen many books with a similar picture that then turned out to be much thinner. I'm not sure it's very fair... buying one book expecting it to be 400 pages long and then receiving one half the size
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Post by sharkar on Jun 24, 2007 18:24:26 GMT -5
I have the tpb. For me, the only problem with it is that I've never read the issue(s) in which the Black Knight is turned to stone by the Enchantress so--guess I will pick up the Defenders Essentials Vol. 1... ... But this collection is a good example of how a good story can overcome pedestrian art. Not that the art is terrible- -it's serviceable and good in some places; but the writing is what's involving here. I think there have been polls on the board on which is much important, the writing or the art- -and my belated vote is the writing. In general, it's the dialogue, the pacing, the characterization, the plots and sub-plots, the theme(s), that draw me in...great artwork is the icing on the cake. The Avengers-Defenders War didn't have the benefit of a Neal Adams or a John Buscema--but it's still a great read. EDIT June 27: Wow-- harsh harsh harsh...my use of the word "pedestrian", that is. What I really mean here is artwork does not have to be stunningly beautiful (JB, Adams) to be effective...more straightforward art works too, as long as the artists have solid storytelling abilities...and Sal B and Bob Brown indeed possess such skills. Their work here moves the story along. That's one reason I love comics, I love the combo of words and pictures and love it when one enriches the other.
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Post by goldenfist on Aug 25, 2007 12:47:55 GMT -5
I'll buy the TPB when I get a chance I always wanted to read the story.
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Post by sharkar on Aug 27, 2007 18:55:00 GMT -5
You can also read it in Avengers Essentials vol. 5, though it's not in color. (I'm greedy, I have both the Essentials and the Avengers-Defenders tpb!) When you read it, let us know what you think.
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Post by goldenfist on Sept 14, 2007 11:29:00 GMT -5
I'll make a plan to buy it, I've always wanted to read Avengers/ Defenders War.
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Post by dlw66 on Oct 5, 2007 21:56:19 GMT -5
Has anyone picked this up yet? Are there any "extras" in the book?
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Post by goldenfist on Oct 12, 2007 13:49:41 GMT -5
I haven't been able to buy it yet I've been too busy reading Annihilation Book 1.
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Post by dlw66 on Oct 18, 2007 14:24:22 GMT -5
I ordered a copy of the harcover from Amazon.com on Monday and it arrived today -- pretty quick turnaround for the Super Saver shipping!!
This is a handsome volume, and well-priced at the discounted price on the web of $13.59. The retail version is black with an image of Thor and Hulk locked in battle. I understand the direct market cover reprints the cover of Defenders #9. I like this one better. EDIT: See cover images on the first page of this thread.
The only "extras" in the book are a new introduction by Steve Englehart (dated 2007), the covers to Avengers #115 and Defenders #8 (which are labeled as prologues and included for "completeness"), the Carlos Pacheco cover to the tpb edition from several years ago, a painted version of the Thor/Hulk picture I mentioned, and a dust jacket with creator bios (I did not realize that Bob Brown died way back in 1977!). Other than that, the stories are just reprinted.
But, I'm glad I now own it, since I didn't have the tpb and I don't think I have all of the Defenders issues. Again, at a little over $13 it was a steal!
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Oct 18, 2007 20:49:00 GMT -5
That is a steal. I think I need 2 more of the Defenders issues, and I'll probably spend more than that on each of them.
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Post by Tana Nile on Oct 18, 2007 23:26:30 GMT -5
I remember spending several days trying to convince a class-mate to trade comics so I could get Defenders 10, which I was certain had a fantastic Thor-Hulk battle. When he finally agreed, I was extremely disappointed when the big battle mainly consisted of the two titans locked in a grip with each other for hours... with hardly a blow thrown!
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Post by dlw66 on Oct 19, 2007 10:44:37 GMT -5
What did you trade for it? When I was young, older kids would take advantage of me and give me 30 current comics (then 25 cents) for 5-6 of my 12-centers! I thought it was a no-brainer, and then I found out it was true -- I had no brain !!
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Oct 19, 2007 11:28:30 GMT -5
Oh no! And I was looking forward to that battle too! Crap! Maybe I'll settle for a 5.0 copy after all.
I'm really anticipating another issue, I think it's Defenders number 9. When the teams split up, one group is sent to Ft. Wayne, Indiana, near where I grew up. Can't wait to read that to see if any landmarks show up. It's fun to see your home town included in the Marvel Universe.
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Post by Tana Nile on Oct 19, 2007 12:15:43 GMT -5
Oh no! And I was looking forward to that battle too! Crap! Maybe I'll settle for a 5.0 copy after all. I'm really anticipating another issue, I think it's Defenders number 9. When the teams split up, one group is sent to Ft. Wayne, Indiana, near where I grew up. Can't wait to read that to see if any landmarks show up. It's fun to see your home town included in the Marvel Universe. Oh BY, I am so sorry, I should have spoilered that. I guess I just made an assumption that everyone here had read it already....again, sorry.
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Post by Tana Nile on Oct 19, 2007 12:17:18 GMT -5
What did you trade for it? When I was young, older kids would take advantage of me and give me 30 current comics (then 25 cents) for 5-6 of my 12-centers! I thought it was a no-brainer, and then I found out it was true -- I had no brain !! I traded a magazine that Scholastic used to put out, I think it was called "Dynamite", but I could easily be mistaken. I believe I got the better end of that deal.
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Post by dlw66 on Oct 19, 2007 12:45:43 GMT -5
There was another magazine we got in school called "Smash". It regularly had comics articles/artwork featured. I used to look forward to that so much! Dynamite sometimes had comics stuff, too, IIRC.
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Oct 19, 2007 13:46:05 GMT -5
No spoilers warning required. It's been out for over 30 years, after all.
I remember Dynamite. You did get the upper hand on that trade, no matter what comics you traded for it.
There's one particular issue of Weekly Reader I'd like to track down. I could swear there was a cover story about a baby elephant being born from the trunk of its mother. I have a pretty clear memory about it, including the pictures -- and I'd just really like to read that story and figure out where I got it wrong. -- Or is my memory correct, and if it is ... my mind will really be blown. I mean, if babies really can be born through the nose -- then I've got lots of misunderstandings to clear up about how things work.
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Post by Shiryu on Oct 19, 2007 16:12:18 GMT -5
I remember spending several days trying to convince a class-mate to trade comics so I could get Defenders 10, which I was certain had a fantastic Thor-Hulk battle. When he finally agreed, I was extremely disappointed when the big battle mainly consisted of the two titans locked in a grip with each other for hours... with hardly a blow thrown! I was disappointed by that fight too, even though Thor was the only Avenger not losing to a Defender BUT there was one of my favourite scenes there: Hulk trying to pick up Mjolnir and failing. Hulk can do anything... but Hulk can't lift hammer ;D
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Post by sharkar on Oct 19, 2007 18:27:00 GMT -5
The only "extras" in the book are a new introduction by Steve Englehart (dated 2007), the covers to Avengers #115 and Defenders #8 (which are labeled as prologues and included for "completeness" But, I'm glad I now own it, since I didn't have the tpb and I don't think I have all of the Defenders issues. Again, at a little over $13 it was a steal! Great price! It sounds as if the story in which the Black Knight is turned into stone is not included (just as it is not included in the tpb), is that correct?
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Post by dlw66 on Oct 20, 2007 20:01:09 GMT -5
It's been so long since I've read the originals, and I haven't made the time to read the hardcover yet -- sorry!! Can't say!
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