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Post by ultron69 on Feb 26, 2014 9:41:11 GMT -5
I’ll start of by saying that the cover logo they were using at this point was pretty boring. Also, Shiryu gave us an FF story with the Avengers guest starring, and I’ve given an Avenger story with the FF guest starring. Nice, huh? I know this isn’t the most popular group of Avengers, but I do like Cap Marvel-Monica, and I kinda like Starfox too. I like the Wasp a lot, and you can’t go wrong with Vizh and Wanda (unless you’re John Byrne). I like Sersi too. I guess I like fun loving superheroes. I don’t necessarily consider myself a Milgrom fan, but the art in this story arc was very good.
Avengers #246 – We get some origin recaps here, with Cap Marvel and the Eternals and the Deviants and the Titans. I love the facial expressions on the last panel of page 13.
Avengers #247 – Does anyone else find it funny that Quicksilver is in costume as he’s visiting that cabin in Transia? Do superheroes ever change clothes? The Eternals were shockingly permissive in allowing Vizh to record their Uni-Mind ceremony, considering that this is a group of people that have hidden themselves off from mankind for millennia. There have been difference depictions of the Uni-Mind, and I see that Migrom goes for the “giant brain” depiction. I have to say, the Eternals seem a bit lazy for resorting to the Uni-Mind. “We’ll let the Uni-Mind decide for us”. Well, I guess the Uni-Mind sorta agreed with me, since the conclusion was that they’d grown stagnant on the earth.
Avengers #248 – That’s quite an evil smile Vizh has when he hugs Wanda after they’ve made up! Yeesh! Maelstrom didn’t have too much trouble taking out Cap Marvel, which I think it key in any battle with the Avengers. I think that at times, she’s their most powerful member, and writers have to rack their brains to figure out how to get her out of the action. Good use of Wanda’s power in this issue freeing the Uni-Mind. Wanda is another toughie to write, I think. Boy, Maelstrom is pretty powerful! Why hasn’t this dude caused more trouble in the Marvel Universe? At least there were plenty of energy projection Avengers on hand to help battle him.
Avengers #249 – This issue seems to anticipate Inferno – with a bunch of demons attacking NYC, and a bunch of Marvel superheroes having to take them on.
Avengers #250 – I love Maelstrom’s lackeys (Phoebus, Helio, Gronk) – “Master!”. Those are some devoted lackeys! Magneto & Dr. Doom would be jealous. I’m glad to see Hercules back in the fold. Cap Marvel lost a pair of overalls leaving the professor’s lab. I like how they reference why somebody else can’t help out because of what’s going on in their current mag. Continuity, people! I like the way Tigra gives Cap Marvel a pep talk. Finally a use for Tigra! I love the panels in #250 where the Avenger are all flying to Maelstrom, an each Avenger on the Quinjet gets their own thought bubble, so that we know what’s going on inside their head. It’s a nice way to compare & contrast the various personalities of the Avengers. Interesting that Starfox came up with a bright idea. I didn’t know he had it in him. OK, this isn’t the first time the old “make the villain absorb more energy than he can handle” trick has been used, but then I guess most things have been done before. The West Coast Avengers Mansion does seem like a much better place for a victory partay than the East Coast Mansion. Wondy is right – it is weird to see Vizh grinning like that! Starfox’s pleasure center power is one of the more interesting superhero powers, but like Jan says, it could be a bit creepy. It’s odd to see his hair mused up in those closing panels where he’s talking to Cap Marvel, but it’s nice to not see those funny horns for once, plus it’s a nice artistic touch to give us a feel for the ocean breeze. That was a nice little closing scene with the two of them.
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Post by ultron69 on Feb 25, 2014 7:35:47 GMT -5
That works for me. I hadn't realized how long it was, I was thinking it was 4 issues, but it's actually 5 issues, plus the last issue is double size, which I'd also forgotten.
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Post by ultron69 on Feb 24, 2014 14:44:22 GMT -5
Artists: 4) Gene Colan 3) Ron Lim 2) Neal Adams 1) George Perez Writers: 4) Jim Starlin 3) Joe Casey 2) Peter David 1) Kurt Busiek Peter David-- daggone it, how could I have overlooked him? His long run on The Hulk was the only thing that made the loss of Greenskin's childlike persona bearable, 'cause Peter David was able to make the "Professor" Hulk an interesting fellow in his own right. The book did get bogged down in his pet Pantheon concept, though. He made Genis-vel an interesting guy (or at least made that short iteration of Captain Marvel a good read). X-FACTOR became an unexpectedly decent title in the midst of the egregious, over-blown X-plosion in the 90's. HB (Okay, yes. . . YES. . . I'm ensconced at the snack table at HBGirl's dance studio, selling snacks as part of the fund-raising efforts. And it's not terribly busy this evening. Hence the too-much-HB-contributioning. . . ) I actually preferred the amoral Mr. Fixit to the good ol' monster-child, though he could be interesting too if handled well.
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Post by ultron69 on Feb 24, 2014 14:42:41 GMT -5
Hi,I've never actually been on a forum before so feeling a bit shy here.I've just turned 17 and am called the Avengers nerd in school.I'm preparing to go to college to study science so cool loads of teachers here. I'm from England and got into the Marvel stuff when the first Xmen movie came out.So was 13 but I used to watch the cartoons when I was little.I have been collecting the Xmen & Avengers graphic novels for a few years and love them.I hope on here to just meet people who are like minded.I'm looking forward to talking to everybody. I also hope I have posted this properly.Sorry if I haven't. If you are called the Avengers nerd in school you will just fine here. Welcome aboard! It's always nice to have a conversation with like minded people, and since nobody I know collects comics (that I know of) let alone Avengers, well, that's why I'm here too.
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Post by ultron69 on Feb 24, 2014 14:39:01 GMT -5
Am I remembering right that this is the "Starfox & the Uni-Mind" story arc? HB Right on. You have a much better memory than I!
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Post by ultron69 on Feb 23, 2014 15:42:47 GMT -5
Sure, I can do that. I'd had in the back of my mind an Attuma story in Avengers #154-155 that I have fond memories of, but it crosses over into Super-Villain Team-Up #9 and also, I think, Avengers Annual #6 a bit (though one could make do without them) and probably not too many people have those issues, so I'll have to think of something else and get back to you. Great choices! I actually do have that SVTU as well as all the Avengers issues, so I could send them over if needs be. Totally up to you, Ultron, which of the two to choose Once the choice is finalised, if anyone needs the books, just drop me a pm as usual. Thanks Shiryu! I think I'll go with Avengers #246-250 this time. If this thread has legs enough to last for a second go -round, then I'll go with the Attuma story.
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Post by ultron69 on Feb 23, 2014 12:44:36 GMT -5
OK, how about this instead - Avengers #246-250. The Eternals and the West Coast Avengers are costars.
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Post by ultron69 on Feb 23, 2014 12:00:16 GMT -5
Sure, I can do that. I'd had in the back of my mind an Attuma story in Avengers #154-155 that I have fond memories of, but it crosses over into Super-Villain Team-Up #9 and also, I think, Avengers Annual #6 a bit (though one could make do without them) and probably not too many people have those issues, so I'll have to think of something else and get back to you.
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Post by ultron69 on Feb 18, 2014 10:19:25 GMT -5
Heroes> Teams > 1. Avengers (East and West ONLY!) 2. Defenders 3. Serpent Society 4. Wrecking Crew The X-men would be on my list, but most everything past Uncanny #200 has been such garbage, it tarnished the great old X-team. Wolverine would have been on my favorite heroes, but for the same reason he is not. I totally agree with you about the X-Men. I had them at #3 but I'd have had them ranked #1 if the series had ended by 1984.
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Post by ultron69 on Feb 16, 2014 13:07:30 GMT -5
This will be tough! Writers 1. Roy Thomas 2. Steve Englehart 3. Mark Gruenwald 4. Jim Shooter Ala HB, some bonuses: Claremont (up to about 1984), Levitz, Gerber
Artists 1. George Perez 2. Neal Adams 3. John Romita sr. Funny but I think the apple fell far from the tree here 4. John Byrne. Inker dependent Honorable mentions: John Buscema, Lim, Steranko, Starlin
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Post by ultron69 on Feb 13, 2014 13:51:18 GMT -5
To be honest, HB, I usually don't care for it in film, either. It did work well in Citizen Kane, less so in Lawrence of Arabia. I can think of a book where I did enjoy it though - Dracula. Yep, good call on that novel. Am I remembering that Frankenstein (the novel) also uses that device? That we open the book up in the Arctic? Or is that one of the many film versions? The more I think of films that use it, the more I come up with mysteries, or films that at least have a "mystery" structure. Even CITIZEN KANE was ostensibly about tracking down who exactly "Rosebud" was. What can goof it up is that, unless the film-maker is VERY careful, he can give his whole film away. USUAL SUSPECTS? The moment Kaiser Sose'(sp?) first appears on-screen "in disguise" (no spoilers), it's clear that it cannot be anyone else from specific details in that opening. Similarly with the Dennis Quaid re-make of DOA, an inexplicable, passing reaction from a supporting character early in the film gives away the whodunit, which may have contributed to the tedium of what seemed like an otherwise decent film. HB Good memory, HB. I believe Frankenstein is also told in the form of letters, and starts in the Arctic, or thereabouts. You're also right about those films, which is why I wish they'd generally stay away from it. That's sort of what I meant when I said that it kills the dramatic tension.
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Post by ultron69 on Feb 13, 2014 7:35:17 GMT -5
To be honest, HB, I usually don't care for it in film, either. It did work well in Citizen Kane, less so in Lawrence of Arabia. I can think of a book where I did enjoy it though - Dracula.
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Post by ultron69 on Feb 12, 2014 11:03:45 GMT -5
Heroines 1. Wasp 2. She-Hulk 3. Kitty Pryde 4. Monica Rambeau (two of my favorite females change names so often I can't keep track!)
Heroes (really, really tough, and changes on a daily basis) 1. Silver Surfer 2. Black Panther 3. Beast 4. Hawkeye Apologies to Nightcrawler, Wolverine (he used to be cool), Spidey, Hercules, and Thor.
Teams 1. Avengers 2. Legion of Super-Heroes (like HB, I'm exercising my non-Marvel option 3. X-Men (they used to be my favorite back in the day but, well...) 4. JLA (I almost went with the Teen Titans, but 70's nostalgia makes me give my final vote to the senior members)
Villains 1. Magneto 2. Ultron 3. Dr. Doom 4. Thanos Dishonorable mention to Juggernaut
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Post by ultron69 on Feb 12, 2014 10:50:27 GMT -5
I wasn't crazy about Byrne using the device of having #244's story presented as a fait accompli (Reed and Sue relating the events after the fact to Frankie's roommate). But that's Byrne for you; he tries things out, takes creative chances, experiments, etc. I'm generally not fond of this literary device, as you basically know what's going to happen ahead of time, and it removes much of the dramatic tension.
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Post by ultron69 on Feb 11, 2014 7:43:07 GMT -5
So, I guess any planet that Galactus happens upon that hasn't yet developed advanced technology doesn't deserve to survive? I'm glad he didn't find earth in, say, 1935 or thereabouts.
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Post by ultron69 on Feb 11, 2014 7:38:34 GMT -5
From what I recall of the Trial, for the overall 'grand destiny' of the Universe, Galactus is a needed aspect for that destiny to be achieved. I guess in a 'only-the-strong-survive' type role by weeding out the weaker races. (That's what, 4, 5 times that Earth has repelled Galactus?) That explanation sounds like a bit of a cop-out by Byrne, but then, how else could one justify saving the life of Galactus?
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Post by ultron69 on Feb 10, 2014 8:47:11 GMT -5
Very interesting link, Shir!
I also have a problem that virtually nobody question's Reed about saving Galactus. Regardless of whether it was right or wrong, I'd expect a much lengthier and more heated debate. That could almost be a full issue itself.
I remember the Trial of Reed Richards, and I never did understand how saving Galactus was good for the universe, regardless of whether or not he's a force of nature". I guess we're just supposed to take Reed's/Byrne's word for it.
Still, an entertaining pair of stories.
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Post by ultron69 on Feb 10, 2014 8:26:10 GMT -5
This is one of the many reasons I don't buy new comics. I absolutely despise the constant renumbering of titles. What a ridiculous, cheap, cheesy, insulting ploy to (temporarily) raise sales. I can't believe this actually still works. I guess it must, though, since they keep doing it.
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Post by ultron69 on Feb 7, 2014 10:57:28 GMT -5
Hey, HB, now that you mention it, you're right. Of course, that's not the only Dark Phoenix ripoff. Claremont did an issue with "Dark Storm" a couple of years after Byrne left the X-Men, and then there is Sue's Malice personality, which Byrne also created. No sense in reinventing the wheel, I guess.
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Post by ultron69 on Feb 6, 2014 9:51:36 GMT -5
Although it's kind of not fashionable to say so anymore, I LOVED Byrne's run on FF. It had it's flaws, sure-- some of which were brought to mind with this reading-- but it never, ever failed to keep me engaged and looking forward to the next issue. Byrne is a great, great visual story-teller-- adhering to the oldsters' rule of thumb that you should be able to follow a comic clearly even if the words aren't there. I'm also very, very fond of his clean, expressive style-- even with it's quirky flaws (like the inability to draw more than one kind of woman's face-- a long-standing, justified criticism). As a writer, he generally did a terrific job of balancing the long arc(s) against the short one(s), which gave his run a nice, cohesive, saga-like sweep. His dialog was at times uneven-- but he generally had a strong feel for characterization even when the words themselves might be a bit suspect (Reed using the word "whilst" in a pressure situation??). And finally, he's also one heck of a good cover artist. I'm on the fence on Byrne's run on the FF. Up until a couple of months ago, I had very good memories of it as he was there when I started reading the FFs and the X-Men. Then over Christmas I purchased the X-Men and FF by John Byrne Omnibuses, and found the second rather disappointing. There are some really great stories there, but they all revolve around Doc Doom - of whom Byrne had an excellent grasp - and Galactus or related characters. Thrown in the mix there were a lot of rather meaningless filler issues (anyone remembers the native "shadow creatures" that made people die of fear?). What I do like about him is that he is great at conveying the sense of someone's power. Iron Man easily carries two cars by the side windows (kind of impossible, but who cares), Wasp gets inside Galactus' eye slits, Terrax lifts an entire portion of the city and so on. He doesn't need to describe it, he just shows it. IIRC it was from Thor. The Thunderer did meet Galactus twice in his early years, during the search for Ego the Living Planet (there was a time when Thor went into space almost as often as the FF) and learned his origin. Byrne then reworked it in the aforementioned special and in the Galactus/Darkseid crossover "The Hunger", showing Big G's attack on Apokolips (has anyone read that? One of the best crossovers IMO). Wow, thanks for the research, HB (Shiryu too)!
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Post by ultron69 on Feb 5, 2014 13:00:51 GMT -5
HB, do you know where that Galactus origin comes from? I do remember reading, somewhere, that Galactus had survived the previous universe, but I didn't remember that he was just a man in that universe, and I don't recall if that story came before or after this story.
For what it's worth, I enjoyed Byrne's run, too. I'd probably give the writing a B and the art a B+, though more like an A- when Gordon, Sinnott, and Ordway took over the inking chores. I still say too many of his stories have a great buildup but an ending which was too abrupt and perhaps a bit too easy, for lack of a better word.
As far as Byrne getting the FF back to its roots, I actually got that feel during his brief run-before-the-run, that is, issues #220-221, which occurred about 10 issues before his real run started. In that story, they return to being explorers, exploring just for the sake of exploring. Byrne also makes it clear how respected the FF are around the world. And yes, you're sorta right, this story did have a bit of that late 60's Annual feel to it, now that you mention it.
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Post by ultron69 on Feb 3, 2014 14:57:39 GMT -5
IIRC that hadn't happened yet. Spidey fights Firelord wearing his (homemade) black costume and Hercules and Starfox are Avengers, so it was after the Secret Wars, during Stern's stint as Avengers writer. This story takes place be a few years earlier (readers time). Yes, I know, but still, my point being that Spidey is not the lightweight that both he and DD make him out to be. That seemed to be a cheap way to keep him out of the action. I have to second (or third, I guess) the criticism of Spiderwasp & Shiryu that the ending was too quick and pat. However, I think that this was a recurring issue during Byrne's FF run. The multi-issue stories were great for the first 75% or so, but the endings were often too convenient and too quick.
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Post by ultron69 on Feb 3, 2014 8:09:23 GMT -5
I've read my FF's now. So...
Though the art was very good, I have to say, I liked the art on Byrne’s FF run better after he stopped doing the inking himself.
The scene with Reed’s mechanical Christmas tree was funny, and reminded me of my dad vs. my step-mom.
I can’t believe that anybody in NYC wouldn’t recognize the Thing (even a lumpy Thing) after all these years. That must be a pretty big rock all of these people are living under! I’ve always found it odd that Ben is afraid that if Alicia could see him, she’d dump him. She can obviously “see” him well enough to create an incredibly realistic sculpture of him, so she must have a pretty good idea of what he looks like, other than maybe now knowing what the color orange looks like. But hey, this is Marvel, and our heroes must be self pitying Hamlets.
Nice touch with Johnny recognizing the homeless shelter that he found Namor in.
Impressive displays of power by Terrax, tearing off the top two stories of the Baxter Building, not to mention putting Manhattan into orbit! So why does Terrax need the FF to kill Galactus instead of doing it himself, then? By the way, I would NOT want to live in NYC in the Marvel Universe. More dangerous than Beirut.
Also, an impressive punch by Ben. I’ve always loved those scenes of somebody being knocked through several buildings. It’s still a bit weird seeing the World Trade Center in old comics and movies. It’s stated here, just 30 years ago, that the population of the world is 4 billion. Now it’s over 7.1 billion. Exponential population growth, anyone?
You’ think Galacty would have given up on heralds by now. Interesting that Byrne has Galactus reveal that he was once a mortal man. Has that been retconned? Was this ever mentioned before? I seem to recall reading somewhere that Galactus was basically a force of nature, or something. Also that he’d been around in the previous universe. Byrne also humanizes Galactus, as he did to many of the FF’s foes during his run.
I like the way Frankie, who’s been charged with the safekeeping of Sue, leaves her laying unconscious atop the Baxter Building.
Why did Thor need a ride aboard the Quinjet? I love the fatuousness of Iron Man, stating something to the effect that Galactus had better beware the Avengers. I find it odd that DD groups Spidey in the low power level class along with himself, stating that they had better stay out of this fight because it’s out of their league, and Spidey agrees. Isn’t this the same Spider-Man that singlehandedly defeated Firelord?
It was shocking to see Galactus fall. Reed’s liberality got him into trouble, obviously, with the Trial of Reed Richards story to be born out of this conclusion. I like that Cap (in agreement) and Iron Man (in disagreement) are in character with their reactions. Reed friends with Galactus? Shudder. The epilogues see up two other future stories, with the “other” Dr. Doom and with Franklin’s powers.
The Thing must be a fan of really old movies to make the C.B. DeMille reference! I do love the 80’s fads appearing in this scene though, with the Rubik’s Cube, the Muppets, and Herbie.
Johny, is his typical hothead self, burning Reed in his desire to chase after Frankie. He’s also a bit of a drama queen at the end (“I don’t want to live” “I’ll always be alone”). Snap out of it. Man!
All in all, excellent art, good pacing and dialogue. An important story, not just for the fall of Galactus, but the future stories it sets up.
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 30, 2014 8:11:38 GMT -5
I pulled those FF's out of box #3. I'll read through them over the weekend.
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 30, 2014 8:10:21 GMT -5
Thanks, gang! For flesh creatures, y'all aren't half bad. And HB, Ultron prefers carrot cake.
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 29, 2014 8:13:11 GMT -5
I'll have to get that LS one of these days. An investment you won't regret. Do it sooner than later and then let us know what you think. Hey, here is one good thing about this new board. I got a notification that you quoted me.
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 28, 2014 7:44:54 GMT -5
HB, I think the S-Sinister issue you're thinking of is Avengers Annual #8 which was one of the first Avengers comics I ever owned, and has been forever imprinted on my brain (especially the cover) because of the wonderful George Perez art. Also, as far as Nebulon looking like he was designed by Cockrum, perhaps that is because he's got Star Boy's starfield costume, more or less.
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 27, 2014 8:31:17 GMT -5
So a quick question: which group do you find more interesting or compelling: the Squadron Sinister or the Squadron Supreme? I guess my previous comment about the LS being my favorite comic book story ever makes this an obvious answer for me. I thought the Squadron Sinister was just another ordinary group of villains - nothing special except for their similarity to the JLA. The Squadron Supreme was sort of that way too until the LS when Gruenwald gave them each their own personalities and turned them into something much greater. I think it's because he could go anywhere with the story that he was able to write something really great. Nothing would make me happier than to see someone else be able to take this group and bring them back to that kind of quality but I doubt it will ever happen. I'll have to get that LS one of these days.
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 27, 2014 8:27:02 GMT -5
Gnnnargh! Oh, this just makes me crazy. As a member who is a touch. . . older. . . than the mainstream, this kind of change-for-the-sake-of-change only serves as a nuissance. Our email is through Verizon via Yahoomail-- and they've radically changed their interface twice in the last couple of years (and now they no longer give the option of maintaining the "look" of the previous, familiar profile)-- and they somehow make it less intuitive and less clear with each revision. Do I assume correctly that there must be a permanent department whose sole function is to keep upgrading the email interface perpetually-- never letting the users EVER get comfortable with it?? Anyhoo-- this looks okay, though it seems a touch clunkier as far as directly responding to a post goes. I was fond of the Karma system, but I recognize that it was used graciously here in our well-mannered community, and can TOTALLY see how it could be wildly abused and misused by a more bloody-minded crowd. Heh-- can't imagine you'd ever find folks like that on the internet. . . I do believe we had our own logo on the masthead up there, Shir-- you're right. "Mercurytheatre", eh, pym? Ha-- there's a very cool oldtime radio reference! HB HB, I gave you my first "thumbs up" (at least I think that's what I did) for this. Change just for the sake of change drives me crazier than Matter-Eater Lad after eating the Miracle Machine! I'm still trying to find things Microsoft moved around when they came out with Office 2007! I also agree this is a bit clunkier, but not too bad. I'm not a fan of change, anyway, but this, I can get used to.
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Post by ultron69 on Jan 24, 2014 15:22:40 GMT -5
Doc Bong, I find the Squadron Sinister more compelling. Maybe it's because there are so few super-villain groups out there, or maybe it's because I find an anti-JLA (as the Squadron are analogs of the JLA) very interesting, sort of like that Star Trek episode "Mirror, Mirror". Then again, I was always a sucker for earth 3 in the DC universe.
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