High points in Avengers history

[dlw66]

What's your take? Here's mine:

1. The Thomas/Buscema years in the 1960's
2. The Ant-Man/Ultron -- bride of Ultron story circa #161-162 and 169-170.
3. The Celestial Madonna saga
4. introduction of the Vision, #58-59
5. The Kree-Skrull War (Buscema, Adams, interstellar combat, Mar-Vell, the Inhumans -- what more could a Keeper of the Flame ask for???)

[Doctor Bong]

1. Kree-Skrull War.
2.The Korvac Saga.
3. Ultron Ulimited.
4. Avengers Return.
5. Avengers Forever.

[bobc]

I agree with all your choices except that Avengers Forever never really grabbed my attention. Not sure why.

I really liked Perez's Exemplars story arch as well.

[dlw66]

Avengers Forever (in tpb form, although I do have the individual issues) is just a pretty book to look at. Pacheco was at the top of his game. I really like the group dynamics of Goliath and YJ on the same team!

[redstatecap]

The Korvac Saga
Bride of Ultron
Under Siege
Kree-Skrull War
Kooky Quartet Era

RSC

[Bored Yesterday]

Haven't read some of the heralded greats yet, such as Kree-Skrull.

Of what I've read, the best are:
Avengers-Defenders War
Operation Galactic Storm -- at least the parts I read
Kooky Quartet -- all of it
Zodiac Gang, issues 120-122
Versus Dr. Doom and Attuma issues 154-156

Korvac and Under Siege are definately honorable mentions. Bride of Ultron was pretty cool, but not my personal favorite. The Celestial Madonna storyline had a lot of high points, but as a whole, not particularly special in my mind.

[Tana Nile]

This thread is an excellent idea. Before I get started, let me say I find it interesting that the 'Low points' thread is larger than this one! Oh well, I guess mankind loves to complain. In any case, my picks:

1. Kree-Skrull War - my introduction to reading comics (and almost to reading itself). This story ahd everything, Avengers, Inhumans, Capt. Marvel, epic space battles. I have worn those issues out and had to buy the trade.

2. Celestial Madonna - some of Englehart's finest work, with the history of the universe and Kang thrown in to boot.

3. Under Siege - it felt like a punch to the gut to see Jarvis hurt. But it felt so good to see the Avengers come back.

4. Ultron Unlimited - just flat out great action.

5. Busiek's Kang saga in volume 3 - there are many complaints about this storyline but gosh darn it, I like seeing Cap punching the crap out of Kang!

There are many individual issues I really love too, like #57 (Even an Android Can Cry), but I will not list them to keep this brief. A runner up for this list was the two-part Avengers Annual 7 - Marvel Two in One annual crossover with Thanos, Warlock, etc. Great Starlin work.

[curtisjamm]

I may not be qualified to comment on this thread, as I stopped reading comics circa issue #200 or so way back when. However, I am back, with a 10 year old son and some spending cash to catch up on all that has gone on in the last 25 years.

Really an issue that I always remembered was the Giant Size (or was it Annual ?) # 7 that was done by Jim (?) Starlin. What a cool story, and very original art.

[Shiryu]

This is tough, since I still have huge holes to fill in (slowly getting there with the DVD). Anyway, at the moment it would be

Under Siege storyline
Ultron Unlimited
War on the Olympus (the one by Stern and Buscema. No deep contents but great fights).
The bride of Ultron
Avengers V3 #4, when they make the new team. Nothing eventful but quintessential of the Avengers to me.

Two special mentions would be the Kang war in V#3 and the issue where Hank speaks in front of the other Avengers after his trial and before leaving (both the mansion and his YJ identity).

[bobc]

yeah--the War on Olympus was pretty good! I'd put that in the top ten fo' sho'.

[balok]

Hmmmm

Kree-Skrull War has to top the list, even though I didn't read it until much later (bought the back issues)
The Masters of Evil invade the Mansion storyline
Korvac
Busiek's early work - he slipped towards the end, but his Ultron tale was enjoyable.
Serpent Crown/Squadron Supreme

And honorable mention to:

Taskmaster's first appearance. This is around when I started buying the book, and ol' Tasky will always have a place in my heart for that.

[von Bek]

Kree Skrull War - many already stated why it´s great.
Avengers 98-100
The Korvac Saga
The Serpent Crown Saga
The 'Government messing with our heroes' issues
Avengers 200
The Stern/Buscema/Palmer run

There is more, but these are my picks now.

[Bored Yesterday]

It's just wrong that there are more posts under low points than high points, so I'm going to blabber on a bit more -- this is supposed be a site for Avengers fans right? Not hater.

I want to know what makes Avengers 200 so great. I found it an almost tedious reading experience.

It's interesting how most of the posts agree on what the highpoints are, with only a few exceptions. That says a lot about the quality of those stories, that they are so far above and beyond average comics, that fans can agree so widely about them.

[von Bek]

boredyesterday said:

It's just wrong that there are more posts under low points than high points, so I'm going to blabber on a bit more -- this is supposed be a site for Avengers fans right? Not hater.

Guess everybody wants to show how much they hate New Avengers before professing their love for the classic team.

boredyesterday said:

I want to know what makes Avengers 200 so great. I found it an almost tedious reading experience.

Tedious? Carol giving birth to her own lover/boyfriend, Immortus' fate revealed, dinossaurs, time displaced menaces, great Perez art, Hawkeye messing things up, to me that issue was great.

boredyesterday said:

It's interesting how most of the posts agree on what the highpoints are, with only a few exceptions. That says a lot about the quality of those stories, that they are so far above and beyond average comics, that fans can agree so widely about them.

Well, you can´t go wrong with the Kree Skrull War.

[dlw66]

Tananile and I seem to be the only two (so far) who have chosen The Celestial Madonna arc as one of our favorites. It doesn't show up in the negative poll, so I would appreciate some comments on perhaps where it lies outside of your top 5, and why you are cool/less warm to it than other stories?

Here's what I like about it:

Kang/Immortus/Rama-tut
the mystery of Mantis
the Swordsman avenging -- what a redemption!
the Legion of the Unliving
the story "A Quiet Half Hour in Saigon" -- great period piece!
the Wanda/Vision/Mantis love triangle
the origin of Mantis
the origin of the Vision
Very serviceable Sal Buscema art
a long, epic story in the days before everything was marketed to the tpb (although it has been packaged as such and is a must-purchase, as the DVD-ROM doesn't contain the three GS issues in the crossover)

How's that?

[Van Plexico]

My preferences have been pretty widely publicized on the AA.net site and other places, over the years, but here they are as of now:

1. Thanos/Warlock (Avengers Annual 7 / MTIO Annual #2). Easily my favorite comic book story of all time. But I'm a sucker for "big, important, cosmic stuff." And I love the fact that Spider-Man exists in the MU primarily to have knocked the globe holding Warlock's gem over. Just ask Lord Chaos and Master Order. ;D

2. The Bride of Ultron (Avengers 160-162, 170-171) Ultron is such a great villain because 1) he's indestructible, 2) he's nuts, and 3) he's family.

3. The Korvac Saga (Avengers 167-177) Good lord, as I was reading it, I thought they were all really dead. 'Nuff said.

4. The Kang Dynasty (Kurt B.) This one read much better for me the second time through, all at once, while I was writing the synopsis for it. I think it is underappreciated. The little things that bothered me at the time just went away this time.

5. Nefaria (164-166) The Avengers vs Superman!!

6. Avengers Forever A little too much "all over the map" for me to completely embrace. But astounding as an accomplishment.

7. Ultron Unlimited Very well conceived and brilliantly executed, but it lacked some little.... something... that would have made it for me.

8. The Kree-Skrull War I respect it now, but I wasn't reading comics when it came out, and so it doesn't have the same impact on me it would have. Hey, I was like six or something.

9. Graviton (158-159)

10. a whole lot of stories tied here

[Doctor Bong]

For me, the Celestial Madonna (by the way, I have the tbp...!) is a great story, which would be amongst the Avengers' Top 20.
Some commments about those things you mentioned liking:
As great and as important an enemy & part of the Avengers' mythos as Kang is, I must admit to get phenomenal headaches every time I stop to really think about his extremely convoluted history. Avengers Forever helped on that regard, but only so far.
I must confess, as well, that I never warmed up too much to either the Swordsman as an avenger (I think I prefered him as a villian) or Mantis at all.
Now, the Legion of the Unliving I always thought was pretty cool; unfortunately, some members turned out not to be dead at all & so it is questionable how they could have been employed in the 1st place... I hope this doesn't mean they were a bunch of Space Phantoms as well...!!! (Yes, I know this objection only applies retroactively, but it does diminishes its luster to me when I reread it today...).
I did enjoy greatly "A Quiet Half Hour in Saigon".
For me, again, perhaps because I never cared too much about Mantis, the Wanda/Vision/Mantis triangle was never as significant as the Wanda/Vision/Simon triangle.
Well, the same objection I raised regarding the Legion of the Unliving applies to the Vision's origin. With the benefit of hindsight, I think the Vision's origin would have benefited from a little "Wolverine treatment" (that is, to keep it a mystery for a very long period of time).
I did/do enjoy Sal Buscema's art a lot.

[dlw66]

Excellent post, ua2.

Van's list is very good as well. I think those who were perplexed at the larger "negative" list have some other stories to consider based on what our founder has written.

[Bored Yesterday]

I agree that the Celestial Madonna story was phenomenal. The Zodiac issues that made my list were partly tied up with Madonna storyline. For me, the Celestial madonna storyline was so drawn out and tied in with so many aspects of the Avengers, that I don't think of it as a "point" in the same way I think of some of the shorter more concise events that made my list. I don't dispute it's greatness though.

I really need to get it together and collect volume III. But I can never bring myself to do it when I haven't got all of volume I yet. Can't wait to read the Kang Dynasty and Ultron unlimited.

As far as the Count Nefaria story -- that's definately some good stuff. Didn't Nefaria get his power boost by the same method as the original Power Man? It's cloudy to me now, but it seems like he did -- and I liked that about it . I liked how the new menace was based so much on original silver age continuity.

I totally dig Graviton too. That story, and Nefaria were awesome to read. Those stories sort of pop out from the stories arounmd them. Jim Shooter's impact on the comic was to finally put the Avengers into straight ahead brawling action with nearly undefeatable opponents. I loved that in a big way. It's like Avengers turned up to 11.

[spiderwasp]

boredyesterday said:

It's just wrong that there are more posts under low points than high points, so I'm going to blabber on a bit more -- this is supposed be a site for Avengers fans right? Not hater.

I see where you're coming from but I totally disagree with your conclusion. For me, it's difficult to choose my favorite stories because there have been so many that I loved, and often, my favorite moments were small ones that might seem out of place on a list. Things like the East vs. West baseball games or the first Avengers Day parade or the time when Jarvis tackled a mugger on his own may seem trivial when looked at alongside the Celestial Madonna story, the Kree/Skrull war, or even the Serpent Crown, but they are a part of what makes their history great It's like choosing your favorite child.
Choosing a list of least favorites is much easier because the list is much shorter. I think that's why you see the Crossing, Heroes Reborn, Disassmbled, and New Avengers repeated so frequently. It's not that we fans hate more than we love, it's that it's easier to pinpoint the low points because they are the minority, not the majority.

[sharkar]

Well put, Spiderwasp. I was going to cite some favorite stand-alone issues as high points (such as the first Avengers day or the first time the roster changed so dramatically in #16) but alongside all the sagas everyone's listing, I felt my choices would seem puny in comparison.

I am enjoying reading the posts in both lists. Good topics and interesting responses.

[Bored Yesterday]

Good points by Spiderwasp and Sharkar. Those count as lists as far as I'm concerned. And I like reading them, because it reminds me of many of the things that I have liked that I didn't think to list.

My favorite part in issue 16 was when it was revealed Quicksilver had always wanted to be a circus acrobat, but his super abilities prevented it. ha ha ha! Does that strike anyone else as funny? Grouchy old Pietro wishing he could be in the circus. Stan would always find SOME way to make his heroes tragic. I want to read the What if that covers Quicksilver's circus career.

[dlw66]

Spiderwasp, it's interesting that you mentioned the old East/West baseball games. I was just thinking about those the other day and about how ridiculous it is often portrayed in the comics that when heroes have their "down time" they still wear their costumes!

[Doctor Bong]

Well, but if you remember, dlw66, at least some of those games were public events at actual stadiums, so it would make some kind of (comic book) sense, for the benefit of those with secret identities.

[dlw66]

I seem to recall one instance where it was more of a pick-up game -- I could be wrong...

My thoughts were along the lines of stories I've seen where there is no "heroing" going on and the guys and gals are in their costumes. I don't know about you folks, but I don't dress on the weekends like I do M-F. Whatever happened to wearing the suits under your civvies?

[spiderwasp]

dlw66 said:

I seem to recall one instance where it was more of a pick-up game -- I could be wrong...

My thoughts were along the lines of stories I've seen where there is no "heroing" going on and the guys and gals are in their costumes. I don't know about you folks, but I don't dress on the weekends like I do M-F. Whatever happened to wearing the suits under your civvies?

I agree with you and that has bugged me from time to time, however, my effort to explain it (At least some of the time) is that the Avengers are actually on duty when hanging around the mansion so they may prefer to stay ready to move on a moments notice. Okay, I know the reality is that the artist figure we'll recognize them better in uniform but I like my explanation better.

[Doctor Bong]

What do you think, guys...? Does spiderwasp win a no-prize...?

[jkemble]

The Celestial Madonna saga

Serpant Crown

Knights of Wundagorr (complete w/ "getting home again")

Under Seige

Operation: Galactic Storm (hate the name though)

[Bored Yesterday]

But not all of the Avengers know each other's identity. I loved the scene where they fought Miracle Man shortly after issue 200. When Iron Man, Thor, and Cap are taken out of their costumes by Miracleman and they find out each other's identity.

[Doctor Bong]

Not trying to be a knitpicker, but I seem to remember that Shellhead & Thor knew each other's identities some time before they shared this information with Cap (unless it has been retconned since, which of course wouldn't surprise me at all...).
Perhaps the Space Phantom or some of our other Avengers' scholars could deny or confirm this...?