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Post by Bored Yesterday on Oct 16, 2006 12:34:53 GMT -5
I'm talking about SHIELD versus Avengers
Soon after being revived by the Avengers and hanging out in their mansion for a few weeks, Cap wrote a letter to Nick Fury asking to join SHIELD (issue 15).
Fury never receives the letter. In issue 19, the Swordsman comes into possession of it and uses it to lure Cap into a trap. This leads to Cap being tied up and pushed off a building (cover issue 20). I'm thinking about half way down there, Cap decided "Screw Fury! If I survive, if the Avengers can get me out of this, I'm sticking with them."
Of course the Avengers save him and Cap sticks around.
Now, fast forward to Civil War -- Cap is consistent in his character as loyal to the Avengers over SHIELD.
I know I'm skipping a lot in the middle, and ignoring Cap's status as a SHIELD agent, but are there other examples when Cap is shown to take sides for the AVengers against SHIELD?
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Post by Doctor Bong on Oct 16, 2006 13:01:23 GMT -5
When Exodus, the mutant follower of Magneto, kidnapped Luna, Quicksilver & Crystal's daughter, & took her to Genosha during a '90's Avengers/X-Men crossover, the UN didn't want the Avengers to take the fight to the genoshans & ordered SHIELD to keep the Avengers grounded in the US. The Avengers (Cap included) refused to comply & had to battle SHIELD troops at their own Headquarters in order to take off on their quinjets for Genosha. On that occasion, the Black Knight even got the chance to utter this line to a fallen Nick Fury: "The days when the Avengers were ordered around are over!" Kinda unintentionally funny, in light of what's going on nowadays....
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Post by Doctor Bong on Oct 16, 2006 13:16:30 GMT -5
But, thinking further back, an even more interesting example can be found during the classic "Kree/Skrull War", when a skrull agent replaced Senator Craddock & conducted hearings intended to discredit the Avengers & tarnish their reputations. Eventually, he managed to receive extraordinary powers which allowed him to send SHIELD's mandroids to arrest the Avengers, who didn't comply (Cap was, once again, among their number) & an espectacular battle ensued. Uuummm... isn't it interesting how, again & again, we can find examples of the assemblers disregarding the government's orders when then knew in their guts they were the wrong thing to do...? I believe this is called in some circles "lack of patriotism", but in other, more enlightened ones, "critical thinking".
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Oct 17, 2006 7:04:19 GMT -5
That's what I didn't like about the Ultimates. The Avengers were just a bunch of government employees. What's so heroic about that? They should habe been called the Super Bureaucrats.
Now I remember that bit from the 90s. Both good examples.
I just read issue 25, where they first meet Dr. Doom. In that issue, the Avengers are captured by Doom in Latveria (Doom lures them by forging a letter from Wanda and Pietro's long lost aunt). The FF start to go to save them, but decide not to. The Fantastic Four are all geared up in their super jet mobile thing but somebody in the white house witholds their permission to take off. They refuse to allow the FF to go save the Avengers in order to prevent a major diplomatic incident. FF complies.
So, there you go -- we can see Reed's loyalties even then leaning toward goverment regualtion of super heroics. He was going to let the Avengers be killed by Doom rather than take off without permission.
Oh no! Civil War is starting to look like real piece of work that fits into continuity pretty well. Now the sun's bound to turn into blood and it's gonna start raining fish.
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Post by dlw66 on Oct 17, 2006 9:22:12 GMT -5
I wonder if it has anything to do with the FF book in the early '70's when Ben remarks on more than one occasion that he and Reed had fought in WWII?
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Tone-Loc
Reservist Avenger
R.I.P. (... for now)
Posts: 200
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Post by Tone-Loc on Oct 17, 2006 11:02:20 GMT -5
Well Cap has shown loyalty to Government authority on at least one occasion that I can recall.
Avegner's Annual #15 (?) the one that was part I to WCA Annual #1's part II, where they were being apprehended by "Freedom Force." Cap was questioning whether they should fight until someone started the festivities (I should have checked the issue before posting, but I want to say it was Herc... natch).
Cap fought Freedom Force once the melee had started, but then slipped off to make a phone call to verify if Freedom Force had the authority they claimed. Once he found out, he offered no more resistance and complied.
Of course, later in the same issue, Cap gave a big Star-Spangled speech to their "judges," and went along with the break out to go and try to find their false accusor and clear their name.
Cap's nature of having a clear sense of Right and Wrong, and how that "seemingly" conflicts at times with his great sense of Patriotic Duty, is one of the reasons he is my favorite comic book hero, and of course the primary reason the Avengers are my all-time favorite comic.
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Oct 18, 2006 13:13:39 GMT -5
I remember the fight with Freedom Force. That was a cool situation, making Cap decide whether or not to resist arrest. I guess once he was sure his arrest was illegal, he chose to resist and break out.
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