Avengers (who are) villains

[The Night Phantom]

The discussion of Quicksilver in the “Villains who could support their own series” thread got me to thinking about other Avengers who have had a foot in the villain camp. I’m not suggesting a series, but it could be interesting to see a team of Avengers such as Quicksilver, the Sub-Mariner, Doctor Druid, the first Swordsman, and Moondragon collectively straddling the line between hero and villain. (Yeah, I know some of the people I mentioned are dead, but why should that stop Marvel?) Thoughts?

[dlw66]

Somebody better keep their eyes on somebody!!

Kind of brings back the dynamics of the Kooky Quartet, when Hawkeye and Quicksilver were always thinking "I should be the leader, not Cap." I think it would bring about some great dynamics -- can you see Namor and/or Moondragon having to take orders from the other?? They have the same haughty personality. The Swordsman would provide a little smart aleck humor, Quicksilver and Druid would just be surly with each other and everyone else. Finding a challenge to unite them would be fun, and watching the group evolve through dealing with all of their personal and "professional" baggage would be a fun ride.

Good idea, Phantom!

[The Night Phantom]

Oh, pshaw!

There are several other Avengers we could add to the candidate list. Indeed, the three freshman Avengers in the Kooky Quartet were all ex-villains of a sort. One of the hallmarks of Marvel characterization is that virtually any hero can be viewed as a villain or (to put it less inflammatorily) an antagonist, beyond the clichés of mental manipulation and misunderstandings. From a certain point of view, right now even that lawbreaking Captain America could be considered a villain of sorts.

[imperiusrex]

nightphantom said:

The discussion of Quicksilver in the “Villains who could support their own series” thread got me to thinking about other Avengers who have had a foot in the villain camp. I’m not suggesting a series, but it could be interesting to see a team of Avengers such as Quicksilver, the Sub-Mariner, Doctor Druid, the first Swordsman, and Moondragon collectively straddling the line between hero and villain. (Yeah, I know some of the people I mentioned are dead, but why should that stop Marvel?) Thoughts?

actually I think it would be cool if swordsman petitioned for leader and had mantis as his muscle. can you imagine sub mariner's and quicksilver's fury if they got tossed around by a woman? fun topic!

[dlw66]

I'd like to nominate Druid to be the "sacrificial lamb" character that Thunderbird was way back in X-Men #95. Man, I just hate Dr. Druid! His membership in the Avengers was one of my low points, although the art was good and aside from him the rest of the run wasn't bad. But to me he just dominated that era because I disliked him so much.

[Bored Yesterday]

But the thing about Dr. Druid -- we weren't supposed to like him. He was a devious jerk, and in fact was the greatest threat ever faced by the Avengers. His evil plan, and his seduction by Nebula led to the dissolution of the Avengers. Has he ever returned from the inter-dimensional/trans-time/limbo realm where he was lost from the quinjet? I would love to see him come back as a major villain. If not a major villain, then make him Nebula's whipping boy.

He was a terrible Avenger, because he was a traitor and not actually an Avenger at all. He was a villain who infiltrated the Aveners. That's a cool story, and I loved it. It was actually sort of like the Avengers worst fears about the Swordsman -- but come true. Swordsman was distrusted by the Avengers, but he turned out to be a good guy. Dr. Druid was trusted by the team, but he was a bad guy.

So my vote is to pull Dr. Druid off the quasi-villain team. Put him wholeheartedly in the villain camp.

[The Night Phantom]

Poor Doctor Druid. I’m with Boredyesterday—you’re not supposed to like Druid as a great guy it might be fun to hang around; Druid was written (in Avengers) as a “love-to-hate” character. And apparently there was much success.

I’m not sure Druid was evil during his Avengers days. I remember some thought balloons of his indicating that he had plans that his Avengers association would help bring to fruition. But these were left a mystery, and it’s entirely possible his plans weren’t evil plans. He was a mystic, and you know how secretive and aloof even the most noble of mystics can be. He’s much despised for tearing the (East Coast) Avengers team apart from within, but he was a dupe of superhuman mental manipulation (or of a new writer with an editorial mandate). Quicksilver and Iron Man have been in similar positions, too.

Druid did return from the temporal anomaly into which he disappeared at the end of his Avengers membership. He assisted the Avengers and the Fantastic Four in the “Citizen Kang” storyline in Fantastic Four Annual #25 & Avengers Annual #21. Later he led the Secret Defenders. Apparently a demon that Druid attempted to vanquish ended up mystically corrupting Druid, and in this evil phase Druid ended up clashing with Hellstorm; Nekra, who was serving Hellstorm at this time, ended up slaying the not-so-good doctor. In Avengers vol. 3 #11, Druid was among the Avengers resurrected by the Grim Reaper; alongside his funeralworthy fellows, Druid resisted and defied the Reaper’s will, eventually returning to death’s embrace.

If he were to come back, I don’t think he would have to be evil, but I would enjoy a return to the nebulously shadowy personality that he exhibited before Simonson took the Avengers reins.

[Shiryu]

Once someone in here posted a link to an Avengers site with many interviews, and there was one by Stern in which he tried to explain what he wanted to do with Druid and how the character was misused after he left.
Anyone still has the link ? it would be interesting to post here that part of the interview.