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Post by The Night Phantom on Sept 12, 2006 4:11:43 GMT -5
Some bizarre crossover news from Joe Quesada on Newsarama: Too bad this comic (one-shot? limited series?) probably won’t delve into the extended Crystal–Pietro–Wanda–Vision–Simon family—now there is some classic soap-opera fodder! |
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Post by dlw66 on Sept 12, 2006 7:21:19 GMT -5
Wow. As bad as things were getting under Bill Jemas, it looks to be falling even further under Joe Q.
Anyone who says "This isn't your father's Marvel" would be correct.
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Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
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Post by Ultron on Sept 12, 2006 8:33:03 GMT -5
And here i was honestly thinking it couldn't get any worse. Stupid me!
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Post by redstatecap on Sept 12, 2006 12:18:05 GMT -5
Laugh...or cry? I'm undecided.
RSC
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Post by Doctor Doom on Sept 12, 2006 12:20:58 GMT -5
Radnom, pointless, a little amusing news, and some people take it as a death knell and how bad Marvel are gettring. Yawn, same old, same old.
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Post by dlw66 on Sept 12, 2006 12:51:16 GMT -5
You know what, Doom? It's because back in the day Stan and Jack would have done something like this in Not Brand Ecch! and it would all have been tongue-in-cheek. Or, Stan and Jazzy Johnny would have done this in a Spidey yarn and it would have come across as a nice dose of pop culture, yet still played for what it was. After putting up with Marvel's attempts to provide us with serious superhero stories over the past few years, which in the case of the Avengers have failed miserably, I would hope you'd allow us long-time fans a little cynicism. I did not cut my teeth on the crap that was the 1990's -- I grew up in the 70's when Marvel was top dog and cool. So you'll forgive me if I see what Marvel often does now as a mere extension of the alternate covers/crossovers/shock comics/bad anatomy art that was the past decade plus. I'm a little tired of it...
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Post by Doctor Doom on Sept 12, 2006 14:34:27 GMT -5
Aaah. So you may be suggesting that as I grew up into comics through the 90s, comics today are MUCH better by comparison, making me equate them with brilliance, whereas you grew up in earlier eras and comics today are WORSE in comparison. I gueess there's an argument for that.
Anyway, I'm at the stage where I believe that if Walt Simonson returned to writing Thor and Kurt Busiek and Geroge Perez began another Avengers run, Ultron would find some way to complain in depth.
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Post by dlw66 on Sept 12, 2006 15:04:10 GMT -5
I would not go so far as to say that comics are overall better than they were in the 90's. While the 90's was not a total loss, the influence of the Image movement did major damage to the industry in my opinion.
I would welcome the return of Kurt Busiek, but I know that isn't going to happen in the near future. What I'd prefer instead is that Marvel took its properties and fans seriously and provided entertainment of value.
I am not a big Walter Simonson fan; while I was not buying Thor during his run, I was buying his X-Factor and FF, and in my opinion he didn't take very good care of those books. And his art just stinks -- I might even like JR JR better...
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Post by Doctor Doom on Sept 12, 2006 15:21:52 GMT -5
Well- and obviously, as a 'child of the 90s', as it were, this is just my opinion, but on the spectrum of Marvel Comics. Spider-Man TODAY > Spider-Man in the 90s. Even despite abominations like Sins Past and The Other, none touch the Clone Saga. X-Men TODAY = X-Men in the 90s. The X-universe is and has been for some time a huge convuluted mess. The 90s had it worse than today, but whereas today has Brubaker's Uncanny and Whedon's Astonishing, the 90s had AoA. Avengers TODAY = Avengers in the 90s. And WHY, you may ask? Because while the core Avengers are undoubtedly worse, the solo Avengers- like Cap, are all MUCH better. balances off IMO. Whereas honestly, I can't name a single Marvel title which is WORSE than it was in the 90s. Except New Avengers, of course  |
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Post by The Night Phantom on Sept 12, 2006 18:18:59 GMT -5
I’m not surprised that this announcement has met with negativity, but I’m curious as to what the basis of the negativity is. (I am a little surprised at Doug, who recently called for reasons to be given with opinions.) I might as well begin. My opinion is that the probability of the Marvel– GL ( Guiding Light, not Green Lantern!) project being of good quality is low; furthermore, it’s unlikely that revelation of further details will pique my interest. Why? - I have no interest in and almost no knowledge of Guiding Light.
- Although my initial post hinted at some similarity between soap operas and Marvel comics, I suspect there will be a clash of genres that would be difficult to overcome.
- Although I’m open to experimentation, I am (based on experience) skeptical of the current Marvel régime’s talent for innovation, particularly in matters of story outside artwork—especially when the “innovation” is a crossover marketing stunt.
I grew up in the 70's when Marvel was top dog and cool. Ah, yes…the decade in which KISS battled Doom and the SNL cast teamed up with Spidey.  |
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Post by dlw66 on Sept 13, 2006 7:45:40 GMT -5
Phantom:
Ouch. And I don't know which one hurt more, the charge of hypocrisy or dredging up two of Marvel's lowpoints. Thank goodness the Avengers crossover with The David Letterman Show was in the 80's, or I'd have been nailed for that, too.
Point well taken on my original curt evaluation of this project. Might I humbly say that if I'd posted what you most recently did, I'd feel better about myself. Thanks for so eloquently stating what are also for the most part my reservations.
As for the whole old guys-young pups argument, we've had that before, and all kidding aside I know there are many of us who treasure "the good ol' days" quirkiness or not...
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Post by bobc on Sept 13, 2006 9:48:17 GMT -5
Have I died and gone to hell? Is that it? Have I died and gone STRAIGHT TO HELL?!!!!!
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Sept 13, 2006 12:39:49 GMT -5
I'm all for the crossover. Why not? Let that town in Guiding Light become part of Marvel Continuity. If it works for Godzilla and Dracula, why not? Where's the harm? It's not likely that this crossover will make the story any worse than Bendi's ordinary writing. If given the choice between a Marvel story that includes generic faceless civillians in a nameless town and a Marvel story that includes a bunch of goofballs from a soap opera. I'l ltake the goofballs. Goofy is good. It's in the spirit of making comics fun. And it might bring in some new fans.
Now, it's easy for me to takethis position, because I haven't bought a new comic book for several months, so I probably wont' buy this either.
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Post by Shiryu on Sept 13, 2006 14:23:35 GMT -5
Once again things seem to be running out of control here.
I have to say that sometimes we seem to approach news with a rather negative mind, but then again we have been taking a few blows recently so it's probably some kind of self defense mechanism.
Still, this doesn't have to become an user vs user forum and comments towards the person should be avoided.
As for the decade vs decade thing, I think pretty much everyone had its (very) low points, and possibly the lowest have been reached before the recent days. IMO, the problem is that the average quality nowadays seems to be lower than it was in past decades, and this makes it much harder to appreciate a lot of the stuff. This is not saying that everything published in the last 5 years is awful, for example I loved the Spider-Man / Human Torch miniseries, and the recent run on Spectacular SM (the Other aside) seems promising too.
As for the crossover, I have no idea who these GL are, so I can't comment really.
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Post by dlw66 on Sept 13, 2006 15:40:32 GMT -5
No, shiryu, my last post directed at the Phantom wasn't nasty in any way. It was deferrence to what I think is truth on his part. Maybe it didn't translate well electronically.
I liked your idea of "the average quality". Very insightful, and perhaps getting close to the root of the problem.
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Post by Shiryu on Sept 13, 2006 17:39:09 GMT -5
I wasn't referring much to your last post, it was more of a comment on the whole topic (even though "I don't know which one hurt more, the charge of hypocrisy or dredging up two of Marvel's lowpoints" could be a bit misunderstandable) On a general note for everyone: try to use the smilies ! Without seeing the face or hearing the voice of the writer, it's really hard to distinguish sarcastic ( ) from serious, and serious from aggressive (  ), so it's easy to not come across well. Smilies at least give some kind of facial expression to the posts. |
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Post by The Night Phantom on Sept 13, 2006 20:07:01 GMT -5
one-shot? limited series? , the Guiding Light crossover will not be a standalone comic, and it will not be a comics-only event: I’m not sure if that means we can expect to see any established Marvel characters cameoing on the show, but I suppose it’s possible. (Well…if we actually watch it. )
Ouch. And I don't know which one hurt more, the charge of hypocrisy or dredging up two of Marvel's lowpoints. No, shiryu, my last post directed at the Phantom wasn't nasty in any way. I wasn't referring much to your last post, it was more of a comment on the whole topic (even though "I don't know which one hurt more, the charge of hypocrisy or dredging up two of Marvel's lowpoints" could be a bit misunderstandable) Perhaps Doug and Shiryu will both be happy to know that, when I first read Doug’s response to me, I did not take it in any negative way—just as I did not consider his earlier post an act of hypocrisy (I did not give the discrepancy a name at the time…perhaps “a minor deviation from his norm” would do). When things heat up on this board, frequently Doug’s voice is the clarion call to reason; I gently offered my criticism in the same spirit, and I understood his response to be in kind.
Thank goodness the Avengers crossover with The David Letterman Show was in the 80's, or I'd have been nailed for that, too. If you had given so much as a hint of pining for the ’80s, you most certainly would have been. Indeed, when I was trying to think of past Marvel ventures of a similar nature, that was the first story that came to mind (perhaps because of the Avengers connection); you don’t know how much it hurt me to have to eschew its mention because of the timeframe.
As for the crossover, I have no idea who these GL are, so I can't comment really. is supposedly the longest-running series in broadcast history, having debuted on radio in 1937; it moved to television in 1952. It’s a daily daytime serial drama or “soap opera” (or just “soap”)—so nicknamed because of the sponsors (traditionally makers of detergents or other items marketed to housewives) and the convoluted, melodramatic storylines. So far as I know, soap operas, as Americans know them, are a primarily American phenomenon; other countries do have similar telecasts, such as the Hispanophone world’s telenovelas, but my understanding is that these are usually of a short, predetermined duration. American nighttime television also has been host to several famous soaps ( Peyton Place, Dallas, Desperate Housewives…), but these usually run on a weekly schedule like the majority of US network-TV fiction programming.
On a general note for everyone: try to use the smilies ! Without seeing the face or hearing the voice of the writer, it's really hard to distinguish sarcastic ( ) from serious, and serious from aggressive ( ), so it's easy to not come across well. Smilies don’t always help. Think of the Joker. |
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Post by The Night Phantom on Sept 22, 2006 17:37:07 GMT -5
Newsarama has posted an article giving more details about the Marvel– Guiding Light crossover. |
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Post by imperiusrex on Sept 22, 2006 20:45:58 GMT -5
Aaah. So you may be suggesting that as I grew up into comics through the 90s, comics today are MUCH better by comparison, making me equate them with brilliance, whereas you grew up in earlier eras and comics today are WORSE in comparison. I gueess there's an argument for that. Anyway, I'm at the stage where I believe that if Walt Simonson returned to writing Thor and Kurt Busiek and Geroge Perez began another Avengers run, Ultron would find some way to complain in depth. I think this is untrue. Remember when Mark Waid and Kurt Busiek came to take over Avengers, Iron Man, and Cap after Heroes Reborn, there was a pretty universal "hurrah" that went up. Not so much for Dan Jurgens' Thor. Nowhere near the same reaction. Jurgens' Thor was a very back to basics approach too, but it wasn't well written. I think old timers like myself enjoy writers who put together a good plot, enhance the legacy instead of ignoring it, and know how to tell a good story. This does sound dumb, but not painfully so, just sort of marvel looking for any exposure. I dunno, I personally don't see the hausfraus who watch guiding light picking up avengers after this pointless crossover and I think there's a better place for marvel to expend their energy in search of new readers... |
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Post by The Night Phantom on Sept 23, 2006 8:22:05 GMT -5
I personally don't see the hausfraus who watch guiding light picking up avengers after this pointless crossover Possibly most won’t (or won’t stick with it if they do try it out); but Newsarama’s article lists the October and November comics running the backup story, and many of them are skewed toward young readers and romance stories ( Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane, Amazing Spider-Girl, Spider-Man and Power Pack…)…these are comics that the hausfrau demographic might pick up for themselves and/or their children. |
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Post by The Night Phantom on Oct 12, 2006 17:29:13 GMT -5
Comic Book Resources has an interview with Jim McCann, writer of Marvel’s Guiding Light crossover story—he’s also Marvel’s Assistant Manager of Sales Communication and has written for One Life to Live. I enjoyed this quote comparing daytime soaps with superhero comics: |
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Post by fourcolorfigs on Oct 17, 2006 14:01:29 GMT -5
Uggh. This is just awful.
Oh well, SOP for "New" Marvel.
Thanks, Joe Q.
Scott
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Apr 13, 2007 16:30:22 GMT -5
So how did this thing turn out? Anybody read it?
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Post by The Night Phantom on Apr 14, 2007 16:05:43 GMT -5
So how did this thing turn out? Anybody read it? The comic portion was an eight-page backup that appeared in several different publications, including one I did get ( Franklin Richards: Happy Franksgiving). My hazy memory indicates it was unremarkable. In particular, I didn’t get the feeling of getting to know the Guiding Light characters or wanting to tune in to their program. |
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 14, 2007 23:15:49 GMT -5
My hazy memory indicates it was unremarkable. In particular, I didn’t get the feeling of getting to know the Guiding Light characters or wanting to tune in to their program. Yeah,... your more of a Days of Our Lives guy, right? |
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Post by Doctor Bong on Apr 15, 2007 5:35:30 GMT -5
My hazy memory indicates it was unremarkable. In particular, I didn’t get the feeling of getting to know the Guiding Light characters or wanting to tune in to their program. Yeah,... your more of a Days of Our Lives guy, right? Nah, I would bet he'd rather watch brazilian soaps... |
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Post by The Night Phantom on Apr 15, 2007 10:24:41 GMT -5
No, but I was gratified when Susan Lucci finally got an Emmy she so richly deserved.
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), so it's easy to not come across well. Smilies at least give some kind of facial expression to the posts.
