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Post by Shiryu on Sept 6, 2006 14:09:43 GMT -5
I just came across the issues where Mr. Fantastic and the Invisible Woman become Avengers (300 onwards for a short while), and I actually found them to be rather nice, with the auhority issues of Cap and Reed and the use of the FF powers for the team. Nothing I'd want to last for too long, but fun on the short run.
Anyone remembers what the reaction was at the time the issues where first published ? I've heard it was pretty negative.
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Post by Black Knight on Sept 6, 2006 15:49:53 GMT -5
I just came across the issues where Mr. Fantastic and the Invisible Woman become Avengers (300 onwards for a short while), and I actually found them to be rather nice, with the auhority issues of Cap and Reed and the use of the FF powers for the team. Nothing I'd want to last for too long, but fun on the short run. Anyone remembers what the reaction was at the time the issues where first published ? I've heard it was pretty negative. It was very negative, so negative that they scratched the idea and moved on. It is now looked on as the worst or second worst team in Avengers history, depending on how you view the NA team. |
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Post by The Night Phantom on Sept 6, 2006 21:18:03 GMT -5
When I read the stories, I was not aware of fan consensus and felt free to form my own opinion. I had no problem with that line-up, except that Gilgamesh was a nonentity—a question mark without intrigue. I was willing to give him a chance, but little was done with him. As for Sue and Reed as Avengers—well, it was a gimmick. I agree that the intrateam conflict was a nice story, and I think it more or less ran for the appropriate length. It was clear that their membership was to be short-lived—they were still wearing the 4’s, for goodness’ sake!
Incidentally, that line-up debuted during the early days of my long-past “career” as a letterhack. In fact, I wrote a letter about #300 that became my second comics fan letter (in a tie) to see print.
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Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
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Post by Ultron on Sept 8, 2006 9:47:26 GMT -5
Yeah those were horrible. And to think they sent Roger Stern out of the door for that crap... sweet lord.
That was pretty much the time i stopped reading Comics. Cold turkey.
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Post by dlw66 on Sept 8, 2006 9:52:19 GMT -5
Beginning of the end for the Avengers until Busiek and Perez arrived. I did not care for much in the next 100+ issues. And then we got Heroes Reborn... Jeez.
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Post by bobc on Sept 8, 2006 14:52:34 GMT -5
Yeah I thought having those two in the Avengers diminished both titles, mainly because Reed and sue were so (obviously)identifiable as FF members. If you have a revolving door where membership is open to everyone and anyone, then membership means nothing.
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Post by Doctor Bong on Sept 8, 2006 19:22:40 GMT -5
But, on the other hand, it gives weight to the name & the traditions of the Avengers, as EVERYONE wants to be one...!
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Post by The Night Phantom on Sept 9, 2006 4:53:29 GMT -5
Yeah I thought having those two in the Avengers diminished both titles, mainly because Reed and sue were so (obviously)identifiable as FF members. If you have a revolving door where membership is open to everyone and anyone, then membership means nothing. Well…Mister Fantastic and the Invisible Woman aren’t just anyone; they are top-tier superheroes with a long association with the Avengers. That said, I am reminded of a statement I made recently: I like the notion of different teams having different “spaces”. Having any character serving on any team erodes the differences between the teams and, in my opinion, makes them less interesting. However, I feel that the Cap–Reed authority issues that Shiryu mentioned did serve to point up differences between the FF and the Avengers, and this particular blending of teams did end after just a few issues. So, I view this short-lived “Fantastic” membership an instance of breaking the “rules” in order to illustrate and vindicate the rules. |
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Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
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Post by Ultron on Sept 9, 2006 5:26:25 GMT -5
Well i see you agree with yourself, and to be fully honest, i agree with you agreeing with yourself. Different teams should have different spaces. For the most part they did, for 30 or 40 years. Ocasionally they met and interfaced, such as the time of marriages and visits, wich, by the way, made for amazing issues that highlighted the different dynamics of teams a lot better than the aforimented frankenstein Avengers issues.
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Post by The Night Phantom on Sept 9, 2006 5:43:52 GMT -5
Well i see you agree with yourself, and to be fully honest, i agree with you agreeing with yourself. Agreed. |
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Post by dlw66 on Sept 9, 2006 9:20:36 GMT -5
Hmmm... "franskenstein Avengers issues". I assume you mean assembling a team from other parts. If that is true, and knowing Dr. Frankenstein used dead parts, then I firmly believe we could rename New Avengers "The Frankenstein Avengers", because Spider-Woman, Cage, and Sentry sure weren't registering on any of my meters before Bendis dug them up!
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Post by Shiryu on Sept 13, 2006 13:59:59 GMT -5
Don't know, I think I'm one of those who like the stories with mutual compliments, coming from people who are not used to work together and realise for the first time the power of their new teammates. So for example I like it when Reed is amazed at Thor's strenght, or when Sue compares the structure of the Avengers with that of the FF. That being said, I'm happy it didn't last too long, since those were not really the Avengers. Enjoyable for a few issues, but then that's it. PS, and yes, Gilgamesh was pretty useless. Best he could do was complaining because someone took his helmet away  |
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 20, 2007 13:09:46 GMT -5
I just today re-read these issues. Having Reed and Sue really felt like someone was just trying to slap a band-aid on the title to keep it alive until it could be fixed.
The story-line, mainly the Supernova saga was OK, but like someone else also posted Gilgamesh was such a non-entity it was like he was there just to take up space to make the panels seem less empty.
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Post by perceval on Apr 21, 2007 14:00:57 GMT -5
The Simonson run was a mess, all around. Notice he couldn't even be bothered to learn where Monica was from. He just wanted her out, period, as quickly as possible. You'd think the editor would have told him she was from New Orleans, not Atlanta, though, especially considering how much of her character was tied to New Orleans.
This right after Simonson had done the definitive run on Thor, too. Just goes to show that a writer can be amazing on one book, and horrible on another.
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