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Post by bobc on Aug 4, 2006 13:49:02 GMT -5
I wonder why Thor's power level was/is considered a problem, but Hercules' never was? Iron Man is near Thor's level too. Wonderman too.
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Post by dlw66 on Aug 6, 2006 19:47:51 GMT -5
Is immortality the issue with Thor? Moondragon played on that heavily when she talked Thor into quitting the team circa the #140's. She really played up the "you're better than them" angle -- which was probably to stroke her own ego, as she referred to herself as a "goddess".
I would also add that the personalities of Hercules and Wonder Man make them easier to write because they don't lord it over their fellows the way Thor does at times. As for Namor, while he is certainly one of the strongest Avengers, in my opinion I see him in between Thor/Hercules and Iron Man/Wonder Man. Anyone want to agree or disagree with my assessment of the Atlantean?
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Post by bobc on Aug 7, 2006 11:07:34 GMT -5
I loved when Moondragon was around. She was like New York on Flavor of Love. She existed for no other reason but to cause problems--and it could be quite entertaining.
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Aug 7, 2006 12:58:15 GMT -5
Wonderman may have the physical strength of Thor, but he doesn't have the battle experience. He was usually portrayed in the 70s and 80s as being untrained, inexperienced, and just about clumsy. There was always a way for him to mess up and get taken out of the fight.
Iron Man is tough, but writers can always find a way to negate his power (couldn't close my eye slits in time, that last burst of energy drained all my power, he absorbed the energy of my repulsors ...).
Thor's persona makes it hard to portray him as making stupid mistakes like some of those other two. Used to be able to separate him from his hammer to turn him into Blake.
Hercule's weakness is his overconfidence. He will leap into a fray for the sheer joy of it. That gets him outclassed once in a while. He and Wonderman have no ranged attacks.
Thor's power, his skill, flight, and ranged attacks combine together to make him pretty tough.
Submariner can still fly into the side of a battleship and out the other side right? That's how the golden age covers showed him. I don't know how to compare him to Iron Man. IM's power always seems to change, and increase, with new armor models.
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Post by dlw66 on Aug 7, 2006 13:39:04 GMT -5
I sometimes now think of Tony's armor as being something akin to some of the fighting video games -- the user is denied the ability to use the same attack twice due to the fact that the computer devises a defense for that action. Updates on the IM armor seem to have given Tony a lot of bells and whistles in terms of analysis, memory, etc.
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Post by bobc on Aug 8, 2006 9:31:34 GMT -5
That was a good argument, Bored. You win! Clap clap clap
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Aug 8, 2006 12:24:59 GMT -5
Hey! I respond to applause. Let me ask you this --
You ever notice how Iron Man's armor is becoming more and more an information processor? I don't know when this started, because I quit reading comics from 1995 to 2003. But it seems like now, Tony's is as apt to be accessing a database as blowing something up. I think it says something about the role of technology in society. As technology is capable of more diverse things, so is his armor. Tony used to be an electrical/mechanical engineer. Now he's a software programmer too.
But another funny thing -- I've noticed the same trend with Green Lantern. Seems like the ring does a lot more information processing than it used to do: analyzes energy signatures for instance.
Kind of related, in issue 15, Iron Man takes a cap off his chest plate, and there's a phone dial there. Then, with the miracles of comic book science, he calls Jarvis on the phone -- WITHOUT THE USE OF PHONE LINES! Pretty cool, I thought, to read that in an age when any teenager has the same ability.
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Aug 8, 2006 12:26:01 GMT -5
But it was still a dial phone, no touch tones.
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Post by bobc on Aug 8, 2006 16:56:24 GMT -5
Yeah I have noticed that. I liked Iron Man better when he looked like a tin can with eyes, and his power source went out every five minutes. Like when the Angel almost "defeated" him by flying so high that Iron Man ran out of power and fell outta the sky trying to catch him! I'm sorry, but if you can't beat the angel...
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Post by dlw66 on Aug 8, 2006 18:53:22 GMT -5
In those early issues of the Avengers Tony spends more time on his butt with his chestplate plugged into a little AC/DC than he does fighting super baddies!!
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Post by bobc on Aug 9, 2006 9:24:16 GMT -5
Yeah he would be like "Hulk--hold that punch--I gotta stagger over to that socket over there for a recharge!"
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Post by dlw66 on Aug 9, 2006 9:46:08 GMT -5
Funny, isn't it how transistors were the thing that made IM go... I wonder what Stan Lee thinks about such small technology as iPods and flash drives??
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Post by bobc on Aug 9, 2006 10:52:06 GMT -5
Remember when Thor beat Iron Man by making it rain so he rusted and couldn't move? So basically Iron Man was at the same power level as The Tin Man in the Wizard of Oz.
Those were the good old days!
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Post by dlw66 on Aug 9, 2006 11:36:10 GMT -5
Yep, that was in the first several issues -- maybe #2 with the Space Phantom...
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Post by bobc on Aug 9, 2006 11:46:45 GMT -5
yeah Iron Man needed to work on his defenses against rain and other mositure.
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Aug 9, 2006 12:50:08 GMT -5
Good thing he perfected that. Also, his repulsors used to be "magnetic." When did they become the non-specific force blasts of today?
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Post by bobc on Aug 9, 2006 13:37:37 GMT -5
And since we're on a roll here, in the really early issues of the X-Men, Marvel Girl was always "teleporting" things--maybe Nightcrawler sued her for copyright infringement, because later she changed over to telekinesis.
Still in all, nobody comes even close to the Scarlet Witch for poorly defined abilities. You could never be sure, one issue to the next, what she'd be capable of. Remember when she "helped" the Avengers by hexing that dam that almost swept all of them to their doom? Or the time when she hexed that blind giant (Gaza, maybe?) and returned his sight, making him much more dangerous? I'm sure after those snafus, the other Avengers were helpfully suggesting she stay home next adventure. For the sake of their lives!!! Then there was the time she got the hots for Namor, and reached out to touch him like a big ol' ho, and she accidently unleashed her hex power--almost electrocuting him!
I liked her best when she had what looked like a giant baggie on her head with her little face sticking out.
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Post by asgardian on Aug 12, 2006 0:14:59 GMT -5
Thor is probably one of the toughest to handle, he is so strong he could defeat most enemies alone. I remember a very old issue where he defeated single handed an enemy that had previously defeated all the rest of the team (I think it was shortly after Moondragon joined for the first time). That would have been Avengers #149, Volume 1. Thor holds off Orka and finally gets fed up and KO's him with one punch. Captain America asks why Thor didn't just do that from the outset and Thor replies that he has become used to holding back against mortal foes.
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Post by Shiryu on Aug 25, 2006 7:59:35 GMT -5
Yep, that's exactly the story I was referring to.
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