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Post by Shiryu on Jun 5, 2006 7:12:52 GMT -5
What do you think of this limited series ?
I happened to re-read the PB just yesterday and the Avengers did quite well in the hero vs hero tournment. True some of them were defeated (Hercules, She-Hulk, Justice, Firestar, Beast, Hawkeye, Wonder Man (by the Black Widow !), Black Widow herself, Black Panther ecc) but still we managed to have 3 Avengers (Cap, Thor and Wanda) among the 7 winners, and that goes up to 5 if we include Hulk and Spidey too.
The Mutants didn't do so well, just Gambit and Phoenix made it to the end. The Fantastic Four went really bad.
I also appreciated the role of Iron Man in this book. I think that's the way he should be, pragmatical but also worried about his friends and capable of dealing with any situation relying on his technical skills as much as on his armor prowess.
On a minor point an intersting sentence. When Psylocke identifies the Brood, Tony asks for explanations, saying that he has almost nothing on them on file. Psylocke replies saying that the X-Men are outcasts, sometimes even outlaws, and therefore often don't share their information with the other heroes.
This made perfect sense in that scenario, but doesn't anymore in the aftermath of Illuminati, a group that has been formed to share info and compare notes (and it's unlikely that Xavier would have not mentioned something as deadly as the Brood).
Comments ?
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Post by bobc on Jun 6, 2006 12:49:12 GMT -5
The Black Panther wasn't beaten in Contest of Champions.
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Post by Shiryu on Jun 7, 2006 6:15:53 GMT -5
I'm referring to Contest of Champions II (by Claremont, Jimenez and Ryan).
Black Panther was beaten by / surrendered to Captain America.
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Post by Yellowjacket on Jun 7, 2006 6:42:38 GMT -5
This made perfect sense in that scenario, but doesn't anymore in the aftermath of Illuminati, a group that has been formed to share info and compare notes (and it's unlikely that Xavier would have not mentioned something as deadly as the Brood). Comments ? Sounds reasonable. But I think we have to assume that Xavier won´t talk about everything with his team. So, it would be possible he discussed this and other events within the Illuminati but not (for whatever reasons) with his team. |
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Post by Shiryu on Jun 7, 2006 8:10:48 GMT -5
I'm not sure I got what you meant.
I was meaning that Iron Man should know about the Brood thanks to Xavier and the Illuminati, instead of saying that he almost doesn't know anything about them.
Of course, in retrospect, he could be lying to cover the Illuminati, but it seems a weak explanation to me.
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Post by The Night Phantom on Jun 7, 2006 20:22:52 GMT -5
Maybe when Charles was discussing the Brood at the meeting, Tony had fallen asleep (super-heroing takes a lot out of a guy!), but no one else realized it because Tony was essentially in a big tin can.
Actually, there might be a more plausible retcon explanation. I’m not sure, but I think the original Brood storyline took place around the time that Tony fell off the wagon and was replaced by Rhodey as Iron Man. Presumably Tony stopped going to secret-cabal meetings at that time. And conspirators are often lousy at taking the minutes.
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Post by Shiryu on Jun 8, 2006 6:35:38 GMT -5
I don't know if the Brood storyline and the alcoholism storyline where at the same time, but in that case it would be a very good explanation. In an interview Bendis explained that Illuminati don't replace members, if one is not there, he is not there.
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Post by thew40 on Jul 12, 2006 0:05:55 GMT -5
The Brood/Alcholism theory is a good one. I'm not up on Avengers and Iron Man history, but it could be that by the time Tony was back in the armor, it was when Professor X was in space. By the time they would have met up next, the Brood were no longer a threat.
The next time the Brood were a problem, it was when Iron Man was in the Heroes Return universe and/or a teenager.
I think I'd like to see a thread discussing possible meetings of the Illumanti. Say what you will about Bendis, I love the idea of this group. It can certainly add a lot of creative potential to the Marvel Universe. I'd love to see Busiek, Nicieza, Casey, or Waid step in and expand upon it.
~W~
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Post by bobc on Jul 12, 2006 9:20:28 GMT -5
Gotcha. I found the Black Panther/Captain America fight really disappointing. It was over in like five panels. I don't have a problem with the Panther losing, but I think it shoulda been a better fight.
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Post by Shiryu on Jul 13, 2006 6:47:16 GMT -5
Agreed, it was way too short, as if they wanted to end up the fighting part to move on with the Brood plot.
Instead, I quite enjoyed the Thor / Storm battle earlier on. One way as it was, it was good fun.
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Post by bobc on Jul 13, 2006 12:33:32 GMT -5
Me too Shiryu. In general, I'd like to see more variety when heroes are pitted against each other. It seems like it's always like-powered vs like- powered in books like this, you know cap vs Panther, Aquaman vs Sub Mariner, Green Arrow vs Hawkeye, ect . I'd like to see them mix things up--like how would Captain America do against She Hulk, or how would Thor do vs Captain Marvel? Wasp vs Vision.
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Post by Shiryu on Jul 14, 2006 6:24:34 GMT -5
I think the same. Within some limits, I like to see "new" battles, just to see how characters adapt to their foes. Spidey vs Domino was nice too (but very short), and Hulk vs Mr. Fantastic was quite inventive. I just wish the bouts were a bit longer.
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Post by asgardian on Jul 25, 2006 23:42:00 GMT -5
Who beat Hercules? And HOW does the Black Widow get past Wonder Man?
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Post by Shiryu on Jul 28, 2006 6:33:58 GMT -5
Wolverine beats Hercules (the battle is unseen except for the final blow).
And Black Widow seems to hide under water, appear right behind Wonder Man and hit him at the back of the head with her Widow Sting. Quite disappointing that this is enough to beat Wondie though.
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Post by asgardian on Jul 28, 2006 17:39:26 GMT -5
I don't doubt your word, but how does Wolverine beat Hercules?
Also, the Black Widow's sting on it's strongest setting would still be nothing to Wonder Man - he wouldn't even feel it. The writer also seems to have forgotten that Wonder Man has super-fast reflexes. Natasha has NO chance.
Hercules should have got through, while Wonder Man would have eventually lost to Thor.
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Post by bobc on Jul 28, 2006 19:47:47 GMT -5
Well if we must nitpick, I seem to recall that Black Widow used her bite on Thor in that same series and it had zero effect--so taking Wonder Man out with it is a bit ridiculous. He might feel it a little, it might annoy him or distract him, but taking him out? No way in hell.
And Wolverine taking out Hercules? No way. Uh uh.
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Post by Shiryu on Aug 1, 2006 5:18:46 GMT -5
Yep, Natasha uses her "bite" on Thor, at maximum power, and it doesn't even scratch him. And I agree on Logan vs Hercules too, especially considering that Wolvie still had the bone claws at that time.
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Post by asgardian on Aug 4, 2006 2:32:09 GMT -5
Using the Infinity Gems, I will alter reality and shape that issue into what it should have been!  |
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