Avengers: Emperor Doom

[Shiryu]

I've just managed to read this graphic novel, in which the Avengers played quite an important role.
Have you read it ? any opinion ?

[The Night Phantom]

It’s awesome. I find it nifty that the West Coasters are prominently featured.

I enjoy the irony that the world is a more peaceful, tolerant place under Doom’s iron fist.

Maybe I’ll comment more upon rereading it.

[dlw66]

Echo to the Night Phantom -- I have it but read it WAAAAYY back when it came out, probably 15 years ago by now. I'll try to skim it over in the next several days and give some feedback.

[Shiryu]

I didn't know it was so old. I had heard about if for a long time, but only managed to read it a few days ago.

[The Night Phantom]

dlw66 said:

I have it but read it WAAAAYY back when it came out, probably 15 years ago by now.

Try 19 years ago (1987). I also read it when it was new.

shiryu said:

I didn't know it was so old.

OK, now you’re making me feel old.

[The Night Phantom]

I still need to reread it, but I’ll mention something that’s bothered me ever since I read the graphic novel.

So, Doom bases his mind control on the Purple Man’s powers. Something about the Purple Man’s biochemistry compels most humans to obey the Purple Man and only him. So, how does Doom control people by wielding a strand of hair or other biomatter from the Purple Man? It seems like all Doom would be accomplishing would be making people receptive to the Purple Man (a useless accomplishment in PM’s absence), not to Doom!

[The Night Phantom]

OK, I’ve reread it now.

As the title Emperor Doom suggests, the graphic novel is really Doom’s show. Though the cover says “starring the mighty Avengers”, I feel like they’re really just guest stars.

That’s not to say the Avengers are shorted. Wonder Man is given some nice introspection during his time as the world’s lone dissenter, awakening to a scenario out of The Twilight Zone. And I enjoy Iron Man’s struggle to master his own will. And as he so often does, Hawkeye leads with his heart instead of his head—it’s infuriating, yet I have to wonder what I would do in his place.

But it’s Doom whose character is given the most examination. It turns out he does have a genuinely benevolent streak. Not that it excuses his means. But I do admire his quest for perfection and his respect for mindpower. Unfortunately he lets these things lead to unabashed egotism, but this combination of traits and the resulting frustration do lead to some humorous lines:

Please, there is so much that we must do.
You may applaud me later.

My greatest flaw.
I surround myself with idiots.

Why, he’s sort-of the Daffy Duck of the demoniacal-dictator set!

When Doom finds ennui in paradise, I empathize. The challenge is gone. His final choice for “defeat” is, in fact, his only hope.

It’s been nineteen years, and Doom still seeks to conquer. Is the character in a rut? or does the routine give him purpose? Does he seek domination well knowing he would give it up again and start anew? Is his ability to achieve his dream his tragic flaw?

[dlw66]

nightphantom said:

When Doom finds ennui in paradise, I empathize. The challenge is gone. His final choice for “defeat” is, in fact, his only hope.

It’s been nineteen years, and Doom still seeks to conquer. Is the character in a rut? or does the routine give him purpose? Does he seek domination well knowing he would give it up again and start anew? Is his ability to achieve his dream his tragic flaw?

And that's what puts him in the category of Galactus, the Joker...

[Shiryu]

nightphantom said:

I still need to reread it, but I’ll mention something that’s bothered me ever since I read the graphic novel.

So, Doom bases his mind control on the Purple Man’s powers. Something about the Purple Man’s biochemistry compels most humans to obey the Purple Man and only him. So, how does Doom control people by wielding a strand of hair or other biomatter from the Purple Man? It seems like all Doom would be accomplishing would be making people receptive to the Purple Man (a useless accomplishment in PM’s absence), not to Doom!

Nice question. Indeed the made the world obey to the Purple Man and not to himself. I wonder why the PM didn't make everybody attack Doom and get rid of him.

As for the novel, I enjoyed Doom's characterization, and especially the fact that he did make the world a better place. It's still unclear if he did that only to challenge himself or if he was honestly interested in the well being of the world, but he managed to end famine, war, racism and much more.
I also found it interesting that he basically allowed himself to be defeated (he could have stopped the Avengers twice).

However, despite being bored by the job, it's not that he wasn't happy about being world master, he wasn't happy about the way he had become master. He wanted to conquer it, not to become some kind of administrator.

[Shiryu]

nightphantom said:

dlw66 said:

I have it but read it WAAAAYY back when it came out, probably 15 years ago by now.

Try 19 years ago (1987). I also read it when it was new.

shiryu said:

I didn't know it was so old.

OK, now you’re making me feel old.

Sorry, 19 years old I was just about 5 ^^

[Yellowjacket]

I´ve got the Graphic Novel at home but haven´t read it yet. It says in the book, I think, it belongs in continuity terms before West Coast Avengers.

Is this so? Otherwise I would possibly read it in between (as I have not read WCA yet, too).

[Shiryu]

I'm pretty sure it's in the middle of WCA. You see the West Coast team and they refer to their East Coast counterparts as to a separate team.
You even get to see the WCA HQ.

[The Night Phantom]

dlw66 said:

nightphantom said:

When Doom finds ennui in paradise, I empathize. The challenge is gone. His final choice for “defeat” is, in fact, his only hope.

It’s been nineteen years, and Doom still seeks to conquer. Is the character in a rut? or does the routine give him purpose? Does he seek domination well knowing he would give it up again and start anew? Is his ability to achieve his dream his tragic flaw?

And that's what puts him in the category of Galactus, the Joker...

Doug, I’m not sure I follow. Could you elaborate?

yellowjacket said:

I´ve got the Graphic Novel at home but haven´t read it yet. It says in the book, I think, it belongs in continuity terms before West Coast Avengers.

Is this so? Otherwise I would possibly read it in between (as I have not read WCA yet, too).

The continuity note says, “This story takes place before WEST COAST AVENGERS #1.” I assume the WCA #1 in question is from the ongoing series, not the earlier four-issue limited series, because of the points Shiryu mentions—plus Tony Stark, not Jim Rhodes, is Iron Man here. But the GN was released in the same month as WCA #21, and so you should feel free to read it between #s 21 & 22 (right in the middle of a time-travel epic)!

Speaking of continuity markers, I love the costume the Wasp wears in this GN—one of my all-time favorites. It complements her body well, covering it while showing the curves—and it does bare a little cleavage. The colors—yellow and black (or dark, dark blue)—fit the Wasp name and also combine well with each other and her own skin and hair colors. And the flares on her collar, shoulders, gloves, and boots have a nice sci-fi sensibility—she’s ready for the salon or for outer space!

[Nutcase65]

I liked how when all was said and done the only one who could beat Doom was himself.

I just read this and I found it enjoyable. Written back in the day when they didn't feel they had to stick too close to reality.

I loved the way when Doom lost power the nations all started blaming each other and how fast the world de-volved to its more hateful state. That probably was too close to reality.