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Post by dlw66 on Oct 11, 2006 13:00:06 GMT -5
How many of our posters/readers like to read comics history? That is, not just old books/stories themselves, but anecdotes about the nuts and bolts of certain stories/characters/personalities/company history?
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Post by Doctor Doom on Oct 11, 2006 15:22:50 GMT -5
I must confess I do, though it's rare to find a good book, far more often one finds a dull read indeed, without true insight into the inner workings of the companies or the major players.
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rui
Force Works-er
Posts: 15
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Post by rui on Oct 11, 2006 15:23:03 GMT -5
I'm definetely one of those people! I'm specially fond of those DVD extras where Stan Lee expalins how he created Spider-Man or Daredevilm, etc. I also remeber a documentary on the History Channel about the History of Comics...
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Post by Tana Nile on Oct 11, 2006 15:37:55 GMT -5
I do like to read about how particular characters or storylines were generated and developed. There have been a few magazines I've enjoyed in this regard; TwoMorrows publishes a few, especially Back Issues and Alter Ego, that are pretty good. It's interesting to see how an initial idea can go through so many changes that it's something completely different when it finally winds up in print.
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Post by dlw66 on Oct 11, 2006 20:02:39 GMT -5
Ah, a fellow Back Issue aficionado (or aficionada in your case  )! I started with TwoMorrows when Comic Book Artist was there and picked up the occasional Alter Ego. I didn't always care for the more esoteric material CBA covered, and I did not follow the mag when it changed publishers. I have been extremely happy with BI's devotion to 70's-80's Marvel and DC, which is my stuff! I have recommended this magazine repeatedly, and will continue to do so! One of the things I find interesting in some of the interviews is the way different creators will have "selective memories" about how characters were created, plots devised, etc. Contradictions are numerous, and while it sometimes leaves the reader asking, "Hey, what really happened??"  , it nonetheless provides an insight into the inner workings of the industry in a time when often the writer, artist, and editor worked in the same building, but at least in the same town. Books I can recommend are the coffee-table format Marvel: Five Fabulous Decades of the World's Greatest Comics and DC Comics: Sixty Years of the World's Favorite Comic Book Heroes. Both books are by Les Daniels. Also of merit is The Comic Book Heroes: From the Silver Age to the Present by Will Jacobs and Gerard Jones. On another thread I posted a cover image to Amazing Marvel Universe by Roy Thomas and Stan Lee, with a soundtrack by Lee. I do not own this (yet) but am intrigued by Lee's narration of some of Marvel's great Silver Age moments. Also of note is Julius Schwartz's autobiography Man of Two Worlds, and (while perhaps a skewed version of the truth) Bob Kane's Batman and Me. Good stuff -- and if anyone has access to the Origins of Marvel Comics series from the mid-70's, each story was prefaced by Lee with some worthwhile anecdotes as well!! |
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Post by sharkar on Oct 11, 2006 22:30:22 GMT -5
dlw, I remember your recent post about Back Issue and the link you provided to the interview with Romita and Conway. As I probably mentioned back then, that was a great interview; one detail I especially liked was how Romita was so impressed with a technique of Caniff's (killing off a lead female character every 3 years or so) that it became the impetus to kill off Gwen Stacy. I love to read stuff like that; it's always fascinating to know who or what influences artists/writers and how stories and characters are developed.
I have most of the books dlw mentions, and several issues of Alter Ego, the Jack Kirby Collector and Comic Book Artist. Another good book is Craig Shutt's Baby Boomer Comics, since it covers my favorite period (the Silver Age). I also have books about specific artists and writers such as Gene Colan, Kirby (of course), Neal Adams, Tuska, Dick Giordano, etc. I hate to say it, but I almost prefer reading about comics to actually reading them...well, that's not exactly true when it comes to Marvel, but reading about DC comics makes them seem more interesting than they actually were.
In terms of trivia/anecdotes, on another website someone recently posted about the split mags (Astonish, Suspense and Strange Tales) and how, in late 1966, Marvel was considering switching the features between these books, to balance the popular characters (Cap, the Hulk and Iron Man, I believe) with the less popular characters (Nick Fury, Dr. Strange and Subby). For some reason this never happened, not sure why...but this is the sort of "behind the scenes" tidbit that I find absolutely fascinating!
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Post by sharkar on Oct 11, 2006 22:35:17 GMT -5
I'm definetely one of those people! I'm specially fond of those DVD extras where Stan Lee expalins how he created Spider-Man or Daredevilm, etc. I also remeber a documentary on the History Channel about the History of Comics... There's also a pretty good Stan Lee biography that is shown on the Biography show (on A&E) every so often and is available on DVD. |
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Post by dlw66 on Oct 14, 2006 10:42:59 GMT -5
From a marketing perspective, it's a wonder Marvel never did that switcheroo. Shoot, today you could just put Dr. Druid with Wolverine or Ghost Rider and you'd sell a 100K! I would recommend the sketchbook series from Vanguard. I own the John Buscema (like that should surprise anyone  and John Romita ones. I also own a Marvel-published Romita sketchbook. I actually bought that from the Jazzy one himself when he did a signing at a Chicago art gallery. It was one of two times I've met John, and he is such a nice, grandfatherly (because he is one??) man. I always wish at cons and the like when some of the Silver Age guys are there that there would be the time to just take them out to lunch and let them talk old stories for a couple of hours. If I had idols, it would be those guys... |
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Post by dlw66 on Oct 14, 2006 17:30:52 GMT -5
I also have books about specific artists and writers such as Gene Colan, Kirby (of course), Neal Adams, Tuska, Dick Giordano, etc. Sharkar: Are these the books that TwoMorrows publishes? Do you like them? Each year at WizardWorld Chicago I leaf through these and say, "hey, I should buy some of these!" but I never do. Which one(s) do you like the best? I've also admired the Modern Masters series from TwoMorrows. I am an Alan Davis fan (although I've often read that he's a hard man to work with...), as well as Perez and Byrne of course. Simonson, NO! |
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Post by sharkar on Oct 15, 2006 10:17:49 GMT -5
dlw,
yes, you're correct, the Gene Colan, George Tuska and Dick Giordano books are published by Two Morrows and I recommend all three. Especially the Colan book! I have always loved his distinctive style. In all three books there's plenty of art work and the interviews are fascinating, you really get a sense of what was involved when creating a character or a storyline. Also, there's plenty of "background" info about both the artistic and business reasons for certain decisions. And you get to see the same events told from different viewpoints. I was never a fan of Tuska's work, but for some reason I bought the Tuska book and I'm glad I did: I enjoyed reading about his background, influences, etc. These are books I read and refer to over and over again, because there's always something new to discover about the creative process, personalities, comics history, etc.
I have books about Kurt Schaffenberger and Murphy Anderson, also published by Two Morrows. The Anderson book is compelling and informative, the Schaffenberger a little less so unless you're an avid fan of the Silver Age Lois Lane.
The "Companion" series from Two Morrows also contains extensive interviews with creators. I have the JLA, Teen Titans and Legion Companion books. The JLA book has an interview with Roy Thomas about Avengers-related subjects such as the Vision and Red Tornado, the Squadron Supreme, etc.
Apart from Two Morrows, I have some Vanguard books. I have the Vanguard Buscema and Adams sketchbooks (don't have the Romita one yet, but soon...) and I believe I also bought these on-line from Amazon or B&N. These are great, filled with sketches and commentary. (I think you also posted recently about Adams' ego; well that comes through loud and clear in the sketchbook as it contains "full commentary by the artist" while the Buscema book contains characteristically modest interviews with Big John. )
I also own, and recommend, the Vanguard books about Carmine Infantino and Nick Cardy.
The Modern Masters books are great, I have the ones for Perez, Garcia-Lopez and Timm.
My main Kirby reference book (apart from the Jack Kirby Collector) is volume one of the Comics Journal Library, a volume devoted to Kirby. I think I bought it from Amazon or B&N.
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Post by redstatecap on Oct 15, 2006 11:52:05 GMT -5
I like the behind-the-scenes history, but I wish it was more accessible. So much of it seems to be buried in obscure fanzines that you only hear about third-hand.
RSC
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Post by dlw66 on Oct 15, 2006 13:23:19 GMT -5
Wow, Sharkar -- you and I should compare libraries! I thought mine was good, but I think you've outdone it! I have the Infantino book but have not read it. I think I bought it as sign-up one time when I did the Science Fiction Book Club. You have persuaded me to look into the TwoMorrows books you mention. There is a fantastic comic shop about 25 miles up the road from me. They have a sale each year in December. Hmmm.... |
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Post by dlw66 on Oct 15, 2006 15:50:57 GMT -5
Here you go -- I finally made my way down to the Batcave (aka the Sanctum Sanctorum) and wrote down a list of some of my reference books:
Comic Books and America: 1945-1954 by William W. Savage Jr.
Superheroes: A Modern Mythology by Richard Reynolds
Over 50 Years of American Comic Books by Ron Goulart
Superhero Comics of the Silver Age: The Illustrated History by Mike Benton
The Silver Age of Comic Art by Arlen Schumer
Mythology by Alex Ross and Chip Kidd
Wonder Woman: The Complete History by Les Daniels
Superman: The Complete History by Les Daniels
Batman: The Complete History by Les Daniels
Peanuts: A Golden Celebration
Batman: Cover to Cover
Tales of the Dark Knight: Batman’s First Fifty Years, 1939-1989 by Mark Cota Vaz
Batman Collected by Chip Kidd
Batman Animated by Paul Dini and Chip Kidd
Superman at Fifty: Persistence of a Legend by Dennis Dooley and Gary Engle, eds
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Post by sharkar on Oct 15, 2006 19:46:46 GMT -5
dlw, you have listed several books there I'm not familiar with--and will look for in Amazon or at my local Borders! Thanks very much...I just love this stuff (and am very glad I stumbled upon this website a year or so ago). I have the Les Daniels books and like them. I have a book by Ron Goulart, maybe it's the same one you have (the title is slightly different, mine is called "Great American Comic Books"), and also his Comic Book Encyclopedia. I like the Schumer Silver Age Comic Art book but find the layout distracting (the text in the balloons). Coincidentally, I just looked up the Alex Ross book online a couple of days ago and thought about purchasing it (I probably will later this week). I'm not familiar with Ross' DC work, but I liked "Marvels", so I think I'd like to read about his creative process.
I also have 100 Greatest Comic Books by Jerry Wiest (Action Comics is crowned #1), Silver Age: The Second Generation of Comic Book Artists by Daniel Herman (not very illuminating, but contains art by almost everyone from that era) and Trina Robbins' The Great Women Cartoonists (unfortunately, does not contain a lot of info about Ramona Fradon or Marie Severin).
I have a very old, ragged copy (from the early seventies) of "All in Color for a Dime." I think I bought it at a book sale at school. I remember being very disappointed back then because it was about the the Golden Age heroes (some of whom I hadn't heard of) , and not the FF, Avengers, etc. I'm glad I still have the book- -I think it is out of print- - and now it's considered a seminal work.
You'll enjoy the Infantino book, it gives a great overview of the industry starting from the early days through the dawn of the Silver Age (he designed the new Flash), and also covers the marketing craze and movie tie-ins of the seventies. Also, I was intrigued by whom he cited as influences... not only the usual suspects--Caniff, Foster, Toth--but also Degas, Maugham and Twain.
Thanks again for the list!
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Post by dlw66 on Oct 15, 2006 22:15:49 GMT -5
Excuse me for picking up my jaw from the floor -- YOU'RE NOT FAMILIAR WITH ROSS' DC WORK? Wow, you need to get out more  . You must get your hands on copies of his Treasury-sized books (Superman: Peace on Earth, Batman: War on Crime, et. al), the 4-part graphic novel Kingdom Come, and his recent (still ongoing) 12-issue limited series Justice. Also of note from DC is his graphic novel Uncle Sam, which is an excellent political satire of the United States these days. |
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Post by dlw66 on Oct 16, 2006 9:13:34 GMT -5
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Post by sharkar on Oct 16, 2006 11:33:18 GMT -5
Excuse me for picking up my jaw from the floor -- YOU'RE NOT FAMILIAR WITH ROSS' DC WORK? Wow, you need to get out more . You must get your hands on copies of his Treasury-sized books (Superman: Peace on Earth, Batman: War on Crime, et. al), the 4-part graphic novel Kingdom Come, and his recent (still ongoing) 12-issue limited series Justice. Also of note from DC is his graphic novel Uncle Sam, which is an excellent political satire of the United States these days. Thanks for the recommendations, dlw. And thanks for the link in your other post. Yeah, I just recently got back into comics (last couple of years or so), so while I've heard of Ross and seen some of his work, I have an awful lot of catching up to do! That's one reason why I find this website so valuable...you guys are filling in the gaps in my comics education. I really like reading everyone's analyses of Bendis, Millar, etc. |
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Post by dlw66 on Oct 16, 2006 12:06:32 GMT -5
You are most certainly welcome. I hope you have a little DC background before you read Kingdom Come -- it will make more sense if you do. Look for the bar scene where Marvin from SuperFriends is getting loaded!!
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Post by Shiryu on Oct 23, 2006 2:25:33 GMT -5
Mythology by Alex Ross and Chip Kidd I have heard a lot about this one, and always with positive comments. What is it exactly ? a painted "summary" of the DCU or something else ? |
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Post by dlw66 on Oct 23, 2006 7:40:15 GMT -5
It is basically a history of all of Ross' DC work. Crammed full of his published work as well as preliminary sketches, partially finished paintings, and his thoughts on plot evolution as well as the evolution of a concept in his mind. If I recall, there is at least one gatefold, maybe two. There is a Batman story not available elsewhere in this book as well. I believe this is now available in a paperback edition.
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Post by Shiryu on Oct 24, 2006 8:14:26 GMT -5
Thanks, I'll look it up on amazon or Forbidden Planet |
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daned
Probationary Avenger
Posts: 87
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Post by daned on Jan 8, 2007 2:27:12 GMT -5
A great work of fiction you should read if you're interested in the history of comics, the Adventures of Kavalier and Clay by Michael Chabon. Don't let the big as two house bricks size, or the fact it won a "real" literary award put you off. It rocks. Seriously.
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Post by Shiryu on Jan 8, 2007 4:45:55 GMT -5
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Post by sharkar on Jan 8, 2007 19:12:48 GMT -5
I love this book! It's a great read...especially if you're interested in comics history. The early days of the comics industry are used to depict the American dream.
As with any good novel, it contains many points of interest and explores several themes, but I love that there's a lot on inking techniques (some of the main characters are inkers). It even touches on the age-old question (for comics-lovers, anyway) whether inkers are merely "tracers" or legitimate artists in their own right.
The author, Michael Chabon is a well-known comics fan--he even appears in the "Comic Book Superheroes Unmasked" documentary that appears on the History Channel from time to time (it's available on DVD in the History Channel website). Also, while the characters seem to be amalgams of Siegel, Shuster, Jack Kirby and others, it is said that Chabon was inspired (in part) by Jim Steranko (you'll know why if you read it...and, in fact, the result of this inspiration was spun off into a limited series comic book, published by Dark Horse).
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Post by iastagehand on Jan 10, 2007 19:12:23 GMT -5
That book is so good. I read it a few years ago and recently picked up the 6 issue mini series THE ESCAPISTS. It's a pretty good read. Also I have a copy of MUTANTS MONSTERS AND MARVELS It's a DVD of an interview of Stan the man with noneother than Kevin Smith. Some of the interview is at Stan's home and even has a clip with his wife!
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)! I started with TwoMorrows when Comic Book Artist was there and picked up the occasional Alter Ego. I didn't always care for the more esoteric material CBA covered, and I did not follow the mag when it changed publishers. I have been extremely happy with BI's devotion to 70's-80's Marvel and DC, which is my stuff! I have recommended this magazine repeatedly, and will continue to do so!
, it nonetheless provides an insight into the inner workings of the industry in a time when often the writer, artist, and editor worked in the same building, but at least in the same town.
and John Romita ones. I also own a Marvel-published Romita sketchbook. I actually bought that from the Jazzy one himself when he did a signing at a Chicago art gallery. It was one of two times I've met John, and he is such a nice, grandfatherly (because he is one??) man. I always wish at cons and the like when some of the Silver Age guys are there that there would be the time to just take them out to lunch and let them talk old stories for a couple of hours. If I had idols, it would be those guys...
. You must get your hands on copies of his Treasury-sized books (Superman: Peace on Earth, Batman: War on Crime, et. al), the 4-part graphic novel Kingdom Come, and his recent (still ongoing) 12-issue limited series Justice. Also of note from DC is his graphic novel Uncle Sam, which is an excellent political satire of the United States these days.