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Post by Bored Yesterday on Apr 24, 2006 16:55:36 GMT -5
Why should classic Avengers readers be left out from discusisng issue-by-issue comic book goodness? I propose that somebody proposes a volume one book or two every month. We all read it, and discuss it like it was the hot new book off the Diamond truck.
I'll start with issues 141 through 143, which I just happend to read and enjoy. Written by Steve Englehart and pencilled by George Perez. This is notable because it's Perez's first Avengers story. It's also notable, because it's a kickass bronze age beauty of comic book excellence. One plotline actually carries on, but let's stay focused.
How'd you like the part where Thor just out-toughs everything Kang can throw at him. He just stares the dictator down, and takes it, blast for blast, and just punches him out. This humiliates Kang so much that Kang disperses his own molecules to avoid further rough treatment. That was just so cool to see Thor being so tough against one of Marvel's most feared villains.
How'd you like George Perez's first Avengers? His figures don't show the mastery he later developed, but his storytelling technique is rock solid, and he already has a knack for including lots of characters on panel. The perspective is always interesting. It's fun to look at, knowing the reputation and excellence Perez would later develop.
Other favorite parts: Moondragon and Thor dressed up like old west characters, Thor reverting to Don Blake in order to surprise Kang from behind, the fact that the monster that fights the team is a genetically altered coyote, the cowboy heroes ... and on and on and on.
Other thoughts --Bendis echoes Englehart on the following points
1. pet characters -- Beast was brought to the Avengers after Englehart's run in Amazing Adventures. After joining the Avengers, Beast totally outshines Thor, Iron Man, and Hawkeye. Other pet characters introduced who dominate the stories are Moondragon and Mantis.
2. Dialog -- Englehart uses a lot of character-defining dialog that does nothing to move the plot forward.
I think the difference in the two writers, is the way Englehart more skillfully inter-laces sublplots so there is always something interesting going on in one storyline, even while building tension for a big payoff half a year later in a major subplot.
Well, that ought to be enough to encourage responses of some type.
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Post by Yellowjacket on Apr 25, 2006 6:27:10 GMT -5
I remember Thor being quite angry (one could say pissed of) so yes, he really blew Kang (my favorite Avengers villain) away. But you know, this annoying time traveller never gives up.  Nevertheless I enjoyed their battle. About Perez´ art, I´m not that a fan of his drawings in general. This is especially the case with his art nowadays - I really do not like his Volume 3 stuff. But his older stuff is all right for me, not my favorite artist, but not nothing to complain about. |
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Post by dlw66 on Apr 25, 2006 7:40:34 GMT -5
Awesome topic! Kudos to boredyesterday!
This story reads great as the Serpent Crown tpb, which I bought and read this past autumn. I remember buying Avengers #141 off the newstand and asking -- who is this new Perez guy?? His art was certainly a change from the previous George Tuska issues. I liked that the characters were "softer", as opposed to Tuska's more angular look. However, I guess for me comparing Perez's current work to this body the noticeable difference is in the backgrounds. Sure, his character work (facial expressions, unique facial designs for each character) has evolved, but his penchant for "total panel" was simply not there in these first issues.
The story is a lot of fun, and gets even better (IMO) after the horrible Assassin fill-in in issues 145-146. The Old West heroes are a blast (and at the time, I tried out some of Marvel's reprint titles for those characters and just really couldn't get into them), and the Thor/Kang battle is one of the all-time greats. I agree about the "pet" characters -- Patsy Walker in #144 almost fell under that, except she left!!
Looking forward to the next litte arc for this topic!
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Apr 25, 2006 12:34:10 GMT -5
I can see what you mean about Perez's art. Sometimes it can take on an almost Sergio Arogones quality with so much detail and so much happening.
I just finished the "horrible assassin issue," and am looking forward to finishing the squadron sinister story. I have to say though, that I totally LOVED the assassin fill-ins. I kept telling myself that, as far as fill-ins go -- these were excellent comics. I thought the Assassin's costume was bad, and the big reveal at the end was uninteresting, but I really REALLY enjoyed the action sequences. He was a formidable villain, and I kept telling myself he should be revived today. But that's another topic, I suppose.
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Post by dlw66 on Apr 25, 2006 12:38:58 GMT -5
Maybe I should better explain my position on 145-146. After getting into Perez's art his first 3 issues, the contrast of Don Heck's fill-in was more than stark. Heck was declining at that point, his figures were very stiff and not-too-lifelike. That, coupled with the fact that WE WERE RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF SOMETHING and they shoot us a non-related story. And on top of all that, if memory serves it was around Christmas time when those issues came out, so that was a big time holiday damper!
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Apr 25, 2006 15:41:37 GMT -5
Ooh, I get it now. I have acquired these as back issues for the most part. Issue 141 is from the "old collection" picked off spinner racks before I could read, but the others I've only recently collected and read for the first time. After I read issue 144, I didn't have to wait 3 months for the Squadron Sinister story to continue, I had just as much time as it took me to read issues 145 and 146 (a good half hour each -- Blessed Bronze Age). And even then -- I was a little bit honked off about it. It was quite a momentous ending. The new Hellcat, Avengers and Squad. Sin. just about to get into a major brawl -- then POOF -- zapped into another world. Quite an ending with a lot of momentum taking me into the next issue. But then, you're right -- 145 and 146 are sort of momentum killers. I totally agree.
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 26, 2006 9:02:08 GMT -5
It's a great topic, but it makes me wish I knew the stories you are talking about. The issues pre 200 are nearly impossible to find in Italy and, as said elsewhere, reprints are too expensive. Still, it's a nice topic to read, so keep going !  |
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Post by dlw66 on Apr 26, 2006 9:07:53 GMT -5
Shiryu --
You'd better soften your opinion on those B&W Essentials reprints!!!!
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 26, 2006 9:23:53 GMT -5
I'm still hoping to get a good job as chiropractor and be able to afford the Masterworks, but it's good to know there is a backup (albeit in B&W) if that doesn't happen ^^
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Post by dlw66 on Apr 26, 2006 9:25:41 GMT -5
I know this next statement is on another thread, but I do think I am going to buy some of the Marvel cd-rom collections.
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Post by dlw66 on Apr 26, 2006 9:26:33 GMT -5
boredyesterday --
Since this is your topic -- shoot us another arc or mini-arc!!
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Apr 26, 2006 10:44:05 GMT -5
I was hoping somebody else would post another thread on issues or short runs that interest them most. In my own reading, I'm stuck in the mid 1970s for awhile, but if somebody wants to post about what they've read recently, I'll go ahead and read those so I can relate. Otherwise, it will turn into a sequential rehashing of the run from issues 147 (which I just finished last night) -- up through issue 189.
But speaking of issue 147 and 148 ... these are related to the 141-143 storyline. 141 through 143 actually had two distinct plotlines. On one side, you have Hawkeye, Thor and Moondragon going back in time to the old west. The other storlline had Captain America, Iron Man, Beast, Vision, Scarlet Witch, and Patsy Walker getting hoodwinked by the Squadron Supreme and taken to the "Other World." There, they find the Serpent Crown and are launched into another story line around issue 149 or so, I think. Haven't read that one yet.
But I would like to mention this one scene in issue 147. Scarlet Witch is under the hypnotic influence of the Serpent Crown, and wandering dazed down the street, returning the crown to President Rockefeller (long story). Vision is following her, and they literally bump into Hyperion, Golden Archer, and Lady Lark coming around the corner. In another thread, somebody recently posted about the powerhouse Vision used to be. And here he is in full glory. He nearly takes out all 3 of the Squadron members single handedly. Scarlet Witch ends up knocking Golden Archer over the head in a moment of clarity brought on by her love for the Vision and the danger he is in from such an uneven fight.
It's a cool fight, because of the diversity of the powers involved. Lady Lark, kind of a twerpy character usually, is actually a big threat to the Vision because her sound powers are effective no matter how dense or insubstantial his body is. Vision takes out Hyperion pretty easily with the hand to the heart trick. He does one cool move where he goes insubstantial and sinks into the ground, then comes up and socks it to somebody who wasnt' expecting it.
I miss those kind of tactical elements in comic book combat. Too often now, you just see people's faces groaning and shooting ray beams at each other. That's probably an unfair generalization, really. But before beginnig this mid-1970s run of reading, I read issues 189 through 402, and the 1990s fight scenes were all pretty generic.
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Post by dlw66 on Apr 26, 2006 11:34:07 GMT -5
Your reference to the split-up team takes me back to the classic team-ups of the JLA/JSA, as well as to the total-Avengers team-up in Annual #1 (reprinted in GS Avengers #5). The group dynamics that come out of stories like that are fun.
As others have spoken elsewhere of a live-action Avengers movie being on their wishlist, your description of the Vision scene immediately brought to mind scenes in X2 involving Shadowcat and Nightcrawler. Vision could be portrayed very capably on the big screen!
As an addendum to this story, isn't it in the Serpent Crown arc or shortly thereafter where Wanda exhibits the power of flight? I believe it was in the issues when the Whizzer returned (around Annual #6).
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Post by Yellowjacket on May 3, 2006 7:02:12 GMT -5
But speaking of issue 147 and 148 ... these are related to the 141-143 storyline. 141 through 143 actually had two distinct plotlines. On one side, you have Hawkeye, Thor and Moondragon going back in time to the old west. The other storlline had Captain America, Iron Man, Beast, Vision, Scarlet Witch, and Patsy Walker getting hoodwinked by the Squadron Supreme and taken to the "Other World." There, they find the Serpent Crown and are launched into another story line around issue 149 or so, I think. Haven't read that one yet. By the way, not only when reading this storyline I did learn that Busiek (in this case in Avengers Forever) wasn´t that innovative. Nevertheless, Avengers Forever was fun to read. But Englehart´s "original" is even better; that is still today.  |
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Post by asgardian on May 6, 2006 3:34:43 GMT -5
The best story for teamwork is still Shooter's Nefaria Trilogy.
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Nevertheless I enjoyed their battle.
