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Post by Shiryu on Nov 18, 2005 11:31:56 GMT -5
Not sure if this is the right place for this topic, but since it came out with volume 3...
What do you think of it ? I liked it very much. The story was illogical at times (Cap being edgy for a while, then teaming up with Batman and then being edgy again, or some super powered villains being beaten in one pannel or less), but all in all I enjoyed the interaction between the two teams, and the fact that there was just one real big enemy, instead of the usual "two bad guys team up". Art of course was great.
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Post by dlw66 on Nov 18, 2005 12:55:36 GMT -5
I would agree with your comments -- I liked the way Kurt played up the differences between the two universes.
Does anyone know if there has been or is any talk of a poster for the cover of issue #3?
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Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
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Post by Ultron on Nov 18, 2005 13:33:05 GMT -5
After 20 years, the hype was unbeatable, it left me slighly cold.
Suffered from the company crossover syndrome. Weak plot, contrived, forced, the weird fanboy meetings; all take precedence over plot & story, which lacked alot and seem to serve the event instead of the other way around.
The lack of quality villains and the Thor Vs Superman thing didn't help me enjoy it.
It wasn't bad at all.
But somehow, especially after 20 years, you just expect more.
It saddens me deeply it was never was done when Jim Shooter would've written a better story, and Pérez, imo, was in better shape as far as faces an anatomy goes. As it was, these days it sounded more like a tribute album.
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Post by Adrian J. Watts on Nov 18, 2005 17:49:20 GMT -5
I love the cross-company encounters, and JLA/Avengers was by far the best (and I'm no DC fan). Busiek pointed out exactly what my problems are with DC and really played up to them in a totally non Marvel-is-way-better-than-DC way.  And although I despise Superman and adore Thor, I loooooved the Superman/Thor fight, and Quicksilver's reaction to the Flash museum and the Flash himself. Cap being edgy when encountering the JLA seemed perfectly logical and in-character to me - even his temporary "okay-ness" with Batman. Just think from his point-of-view: you come to a world where the "heroes" practically run the world and oppress the freedom of, well, everyone... you've spent your life fighting such things. You're gonna be edgy. Then you meet someone very much like your long-time pal Iron Man. You relax a bit. Then you jump back in the neo-Nazi world of DC America, you're gonna be on edge again. And Darkseid (who, AFAIC, is DC's Thanos) not being able to use the Infinity Gauntlet was a laugh-and-a-half, even though I wasn't sure if the irony was deliberate. I dislike Cap immensely, but when I took the mindset of a Marvel denizen and read the series, I started to think he was awesome - and that means he was written exactly as he should be. I thought the whole darn thing kicked monkey-butt all over the place. (Well, the GotG could have had a little more screen-time, but no-one's perfect.) - Adrian |
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Post by Shiryu on Nov 19, 2005 8:04:38 GMT -5
After 20 years there are so many expectations that it's probably inevitable to not be a bit disappointed. Having said that, I think one could feel the "fan" spirit coming from that crossover. For example Superman beats Thor (who later says that a re-match may end differently), but then he's clobbered by the Avengers' strongest, and at the end of the 4th book is unable to lift Mjolnir. My favourites moments though were Quicksilver finally outrunning Flash (and esulting like a kid ;D), Batman saying to Cap "You are more resourcefull than you seem" and the two teams building the space ship together  |
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Post by asgardian on Nov 25, 2005 3:58:05 GMT -5
I was disappointed. There were too many logic holes. Doomsday, Black Adam, the Abomination, the Destroyer and SURTUR defeated in quick order??? I don't think so. Then Krona is beaten by an arrow, after NOT choosing to use ANY of the items?
Then of course there was the Thor/Superman fight. Neither was shown to be using all their powers and going all out. They've fought harder against their prime foes!
Galactus was also treated rather poorly - I would like to have seen a twist whereby he feigned defeat and actually instigated via the heroes the key to Krona's defeat so he could absorb his energies.
Humbug.
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curt
Great Lakes Avenger
Posts: 30
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Post by curt on Dec 3, 2005 21:32:49 GMT -5
I liked it. Maybe I'm just a diehard fan. Maybe after twenty plus years I was just happy as hell to see it happen. Whatever- I liked it. I loved Superman taking up M'Jolnir and Cap's shield... I loved that EVERYONE was in it. Granted there were a few I had to turn a blind eye to, but it was fantastic to see everyone included. I really enjoyed the Cap/Batman fight, and its conclusion, and their interaction afterwards... After the LOOOONNNNGGGG wait, I was not disappointed in the least. However, and being a pregnant dog, for those of you that WERE disappointed, allow me to offer up the Fanfic alternative... Different plot and villains. Different role calls on both teams but still the favorites. Different crisis. Check it out. It's VERY long, but maybe more satisfying... www.carnaj.com/JLU2001/JLAVindex.htmlSorry for the self promotion, Van. I don't want to start a bad habit here by being the first to shamelessly promote our personal sites- Fanfic or not. Delete this if necessary, though it is topic related... Otherwise, enjoy... curt |
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 26, 2006 9:09:28 GMT -5
I bring this old topic back to life just to say that Avengers/JLA is the only crossover in continuity, at least in the DC Universe.
In JLA 114 (or 116 ?), Batman refers to it, and examines the energies coming from the Cosmic Egg that contains Krona, fearing that he could free himself.
Apparently Marvel was going to do something similar, but then dropped the idea because the Avengers got involved in Disassembled.
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Post by dlw66 on Apr 26, 2006 9:14:14 GMT -5
DC is not opposed to "Infinite Earths" -- maybe that's why.
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Apr 26, 2006 11:53:48 GMT -5
I haven't read this yet -- but the image of Superman with Mjolnir and Cap's shield was part of the reason I got back into comics after skipping the 1990s.
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Post by Van Plexico on Apr 26, 2006 17:01:00 GMT -5
You didn't miss much (during the '90s).  Well, except maybe INFINITY GAUNTLET. And THUNDERBOLTS. And Kurt's run on AVENGERS and IRON MAN. Oh, and BONE. That's pretty much it. ;D |
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Post by The Night Phantom on Apr 26, 2006 21:39:25 GMT -5
I bring this old topic back to life just to say that Avengers/JLA is the only crossover in continuity, at least in the DC Universe. It’s in continuity in the Marvel Universe too, although, so far as I know, there haven’t been any stories referring to it. How do I know? I got it from an official source: The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe occasionally refers to the JLA–Avengers crossover, albeit obliquely (never naming the JLA or other DC properties). For example, here’s a snippet from the Avengers team entry in the Avengers 2005 issue: |
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Apr 26, 2006 22:05:21 GMT -5
I'm a loyal Marvelite most of the time, but I really can't believe that Quicksilver is faster than the Flash. I can't imagine Quicksilver vibrating his molecules through a wall, and I don't think I've seen him run up a wall. I also can't see Thor as being in the same class as Superman. Other than that though, it seems like Marvel heroes are generally more powerful than DC.
It was pretty ballsy for both companies to keep the crossover in continuity. Very cool. Kurt Busiek has definitely been a force for good in the comics world. If I ever finish my volume I collection, I'm going for volume III.
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Post by Shiryu on Apr 27, 2006 9:02:41 GMT -5
For Quicksilver and Flash, Kurt had a cool idea. The light force, which gives Flash his powers, doesn't exist in the Marvel MU. Therefore, Flash is much faster on his Earth, but Quicksilver can beat him on his Marvel Earth. Morale is: everybody stay home in your own world ;D
As for Thor, I was hoping he could beat Superman. I've always thought (and still think) that Superman is stronger but Thor is more powerful. Besides, his hammer powers are partially mystic in nature, and Superman has often been depicted as vulnerable to magic.
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Post by Yellowjacket on May 3, 2006 7:20:27 GMT -5
I also can't see Thor as being in the same class as Superman. Come on, after all he´s called the Mighty Thor whereas Supie´s just an(other) alien. ;D At least, Thor will ever be the more glorious one! |
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Post by Yellowjacket on May 3, 2006 7:24:08 GMT -5
You didn't miss much (during the '90s). Well, except maybe INFINITY GAUNTLET. And THUNDERBOLTS. And Kurt's run on AVENGERS and IRON MAN. Oh, and BONE. That's pretty much it. ;D And in case of Busiek´s Avengers his better stories (I should rather say excellent stories) are the ones in the 2000s. But then, even an author as good like Busiek needs some warming up time. |
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Post by Shiryu on May 3, 2006 8:25:38 GMT -5
He probably needed some time to adapt himself to the characters. I think he mentions it himself in his audio interview mentioned somewhere else in the forum.
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Post by von Bek on May 3, 2006 8:54:02 GMT -5
For me Busiek was very much adapted to the characters from issue 1/vol. III. That doesn´t mean I always agreed with the way he portraited the characters (his Thor was a little bit too unidimensional to me, and Cap a little too bossy), but he had a grasp on all of them most of the time, and let´s not forget his first arc included ALL heroes who have ever been Avengers since issue 1/vol. I.
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Post by Yellowjacket on May 5, 2006 8:05:04 GMT -5
and let´s not forget his first arc included ALL heroes who have ever been Avengers since issue 1/vol. I. Yes, but was it good? I don´t think so. Too many characters, much more than needed for the only sake of finding a new team. Add to that Perez´ art -- there are people who are not too impressed by both of that. Of course, it is a matter of taste, as always. |
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Post by von Bek on May 5, 2006 9:30:24 GMT -5
Maybe it wasn´t really necessary (I don´t think Starfox or the other New Warriors - except for Firestar and Justice - added much to the story), but it was more a tip of the hat for what went before.
And Busiek/Perez could handle that many heroes, that alone is noteworthy.
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Post by asgardian on May 6, 2006 3:31:08 GMT -5
I doubt it will be referenced again. The JLA follow-up story was pretty bad and with Infinite Crisis, quite a bit looks to have been swept under the carpet. I can't see Marvel sourcing it any time soon. Certainly not under Quesada's leadership.
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Post by Shiryu on May 6, 2006 10:15:59 GMT -5
I think the same as Asgardian, but hope we are wrong. Personally I would be very happy to see it referenced again, even just in future crossovers.
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Post by asgardian on May 6, 2006 23:24:05 GMT -5
Actually, I've always felt the best crossover was X-Men/Teen Titans. The plot was quite good and in fact so absorbing that you only realise at the end that the teams did not fight!
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Post by Yellowjacket on May 9, 2006 8:10:03 GMT -5
I don´t know this crossover but I think you mean fight not against each other?
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Post by Shiryu on May 9, 2006 8:41:20 GMT -5
It's the 4th Marvel / DC crossover (5th if you consider the Wizard of Oz they co-produced) and, yes, the two teams never fight against each other, except for a skirmish involving professor X.
It's recently been reprinted on the 1st Marvel/DC crossovers TPB (which is where I've read it).
Personally, I consider it a nice story but not as good as the others in the book (SpiderMan vs Superman 1 and 2, Batman vs Hulk). I think the art pulls it down, it's a bit chaotic IMO.
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Post by dlw66 on May 9, 2006 8:50:36 GMT -5
Walter Simonson, if I recall?
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Post by von Bek on May 9, 2006 9:12:24 GMT -5
Yes, Walter Simonson. I really liked the art, but I have to agree with Shiryu that it´s not for everyone´s taste, Simonson style can be somewhat caotic.
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