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Post by dlw66 on Nov 16, 2005 12:13:13 GMT -5
How about this -- use this thread to post any particular rant you have about the Avengers and related titles. As we've covered artwork, different eras, etc., let's use this for bad stories, costumes, members or guest-stars that were out of place, etc.
I'll start: who the heck came up with the idea for everyone to wear the bomber jackets in the Steve Epting period?? I just hung the Perez 30th Anniversary poster last night, and while I love it, a lot of the characters are wearing those stupid jackets!!
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Post by Adrian J. Watts on Nov 16, 2005 15:56:49 GMT -5
Hey! I luuuurve those jackets! IIRC, they were created by Sersi for herself and Crystal when they travelled to Hala during Galactic Storm and then they just sort of caught on. I actually think they're pretty darn snazzy - they wouldn't be appropriate today (unless Finch is drawing the Avengers, in which case they could do with even more identical features), but for the time they were neat. I think it goes without saying that my rant is BENDIS!/Finch. And I'm not limiting that to their writing/art.  - Adrian |
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Post by Van Plexico on Nov 16, 2005 23:02:24 GMT -5
Adrian, you mentioned the 30th Anniversary poster-- at our panel with George Perez a few years back, someone asked him about it, and he said he wishes now that he'd drawn all the characters in their "classic" appearances, rather than trying to make them all current (many of which ended up being current for pretty much the week he drew the poster).
The other one that bugs me is the Perez insert early in Volume 3. I love it because it has Ms. Marvel, the Big 3, etc.-- but Cap has the triangular shield he was carrying for only a handful of issues of his own book, back then. Once again-- gaaah!
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Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
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Post by Ultron on Nov 17, 2005 6:06:45 GMT -5
Pretty much everything that happened post Firing-of-Roger-Stern apocalypse beyond the 300's.
Mullets, jackets, FF as avengers, senseless crossovers, constant costume changes and writers that never wrote the avengers claiming they love the avengers since kids then killing them all and substituting them with Squirrel Girl, Black Goliath, Webbie McWebbie, Bruce Lee Wo? & Ginsuwerine.
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Post by dlw66 on Nov 17, 2005 19:54:11 GMT -5
Dumb, but I liked it: Anyone remember the issue where they're at a fashion show, Nighthawk guest-stars, and he and the Wasp fight the Porcupine???
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Post by Shiryu on Nov 18, 2005 11:28:49 GMT -5
I do ! I think it was just before the Korvac saga, wasn't it ? when heroes started to disappear.
As for dumb things... hmm, I would probably consider the Avengers team with Gilgamesh, Mr Fantastic and Invisible Woman (!), the senseless death of Jack of Hears ("I'm an avenger... I avenge! >_<) and all Disassembled (but here I could go on forever).
Red Ronin was also a bit weird, looked like Avengers vs Mazinger.
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Post by dlw66 on Nov 18, 2005 23:37:03 GMT -5
OK -- how's this for ironic?? The ads at the top of this page apparently scroll through as you navigate around - they change. I come here to read the latest posts, and the ad on the far right says "Leather bomber jackets" from www. shopping.com!!!
Spider-Woman's pheromones revealed in New Avengers, when they were fighting the Wrecker. Seems like kind of a major thing to have kept secret for, oh, I don't know -- 30 years!?!?!
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Post by Adrian J. Watts on Nov 19, 2005 15:33:37 GMT -5
Two things:
What's wrong with the Avengers vs. Mazinger? I'd love that!
Spider-Woman's pheromones haven't been kept secret for 30 years... they were revealed quite some time ago.
- Adrian
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Post by Shiryu on Nov 20, 2005 8:25:46 GMT -5
I like Mazinger (in all its forms, Z Mazinger, Great Mazinger, even the new Mazinkaiser) but a fight between a 50 mentres tall robot and the Avengers doesn't quite get me. They are too small and difficult to hit, he is huge and difficult to damage (unless they go inside as they did with Red Ronin). It feels like.. weird  Oh, and for dumb things, what about Hyperion getting pinned under Thor's hammer (Avengers/Squadrone Supreme annual)  |
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Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
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Post by Ultron on Nov 20, 2005 11:54:29 GMT -5
OK -- how's this for ironic?? The ads at the top of this page apparently scroll through as you navigate around - they change. I come here to read the latest posts, and the ad on the far right says "Leather bomber jackets" from www. shopping.com!!! Ah! May the Gods bless Capitalism!  |
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Post by dlw66 on Nov 20, 2005 22:05:24 GMT -5
Where were Spider-Woman's extra powers revealed? I have cut way down on the number of books I read in a month, so I'm sure I missed it somewhere along the line... Just curious. Everyone in New Avengers seemed surprised...
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Post by dlw66 on Nov 22, 2005 11:01:00 GMT -5
Liefeld thinking he was important enough to change Cap's mask from an A to an eagle. Just about as bad as whoever came up with making Superman wear that ugly blue lightning suit several years ago. You don't mess with icons.
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Spider-Man
Great Lakes Avenger
With Great Power There Must Come Great Responsibility
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Post by Spider-Man on Nov 30, 2005 11:48:00 GMT -5
honestly, i liked the eagle...lol
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Post by dlw66 on Dec 2, 2005 23:52:32 GMT -5
I just finished another post elsewhere on the Image influence on today's talent. It's funny how you read about Silver Age artists studying anatomy, Neal Adams correcting other artists' work to make it anatomically correct (an issue in itself) -- and then you look at Rob Liefeld's stuff... I can not believe that he has any kind of a degree in art. Or that he even passed drawing in high school. He certainly never took a course on backgrounds. I've seen people criticize Perez for spending too much time on backgrounds -- Liefeld doesn't have to worry about that!!
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Post by Shiryu on Dec 5, 2005 8:02:44 GMT -5
Sad but true. I think it was him who used to draw veins even on Thor's helmet Some artists nowadays tend to ignore anatomy and proportions for the sake of expressions, it seems to be influenced from some mangas. On occasions the results were not too bad, but I sorely miss the time of Romita Sr (for SpiderMan), Adams, Perez and so on |
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 20, 2007 12:49:40 GMT -5
I really thought it was dumb when during the 'cap no more' story they kept giving clues to who the mystery man was in his cigarette smoke.  |
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Post by Crimson Cowl on Apr 26, 2007 19:21:06 GMT -5
Too many things to possibly mention (or remember) them all.
Wonder Man's green costume with jetpack from WCA.
Busiek suddenly deciding to change the Scarlet Witch's powers (can anyone tell me what chaos maic is please).
George Perez's attempts at racial profiling on the Scarlet Witch in the Busiek period (contrary to all previous depictions and inaccurate-unless he was trying to make her look ethnically Jewish rather than a gypsy!).
All the times that Avengers mansion has been destroyed and we've been given a 'thrilling' new JLA style Avengers base.
US Agent being accepted by the other Avengers as a 'good guy'.
Force Works (does this count as Avengers?)
Rubbish Avengers:
Deathcry, Swordsman II, Magdalene, Spider Woman, Living Lightning, Thunderstrike, Justice, Firestar, Triathlon, Moon Knight, Quasar, Rage, Tigra. Probably a few others I can't remember right now. Mantis wasn't too great either.
I'm a few years out of date but I gather that some idiot made both Wolverine and Spider Man Avengers. The mind boggles. I would imagine that in the days when Lee or Shooter were in charge there would have been an engraved sign above the door to the Avengers creative office saying 'Spider Man may not Enter'.
That was cathartic. I'll try and finish off the process by having a look at that 'Worst Avengers periods' thread.
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Post by redstatecap on Apr 29, 2007 1:25:41 GMT -5
I gather that some idiot made both Wolverine and Spider Man Avengers. You are 100% correct, sir. RSC |
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Post by The Night Phantom on Apr 29, 2007 13:19:11 GMT -5
I gather that some idiot made both Wolverine and Spider Man Avengers. You are 100% correct, sir. The writer-idiot who made Spider-Man an Avenger is John Byrne, back in #316. Actually, I thought it a brilliant move. The question of whether Spidey would ever become an Avenger had beem flirted with for years; this story definitively answered it with a yes (noes would never be definitive, since he could always join later), then two issues later had him and the team parting, with the understanding that the scale of Avengers adventures was not for him on a regular basis. Bringing him back as a long-term active member is the dramatically poor move, not having him officially join in the first place…in my opinion. |
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Post by Doctor Bong on May 1, 2007 1:15:22 GMT -5
For my money, if Spidey needs be on a team, he would make a better defender...
Seeing how it's a more informal, loosely knited outfit...
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Post by Doctor Bong on May 1, 2007 1:16:51 GMT -5
By the way, what's the status of the Defenders...? Where are Nighthawk, Hellcat & the Valkyrie...? are they part of the Initiative...? I imagine they are, otherwise, why wouldn't they be aiding their friend & ally Dr. Strange...? |
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Post by Nutcase65 on May 1, 2007 15:25:07 GMT -5
are you relating the Defenders to the title "dumb things"?
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Post by Doctor Doom on May 1, 2007 16:33:34 GMT -5
I would, personally.
Bong, rather surprisingly Nighthawk got a fair enough bit of play in Civil War. For a Z-lister, I mean.
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Post by The Night Phantom on May 1, 2007 16:36:34 GMT -5
By the way, what's the status of the Defenders...? Where are Nighthawk, Hellcat & the Valkyrie...? are they part of the Initiative...? I imagine they are, otherwise, why wouldn't they be aiding their friend & ally Dr. Strange...? I’ll begin by repeating an answer I gave about the Valkyrie specifically: The 2001 Defenders series established a Valkyrie who was a mortal (Samantha Parrington) with Brunnhilde’s attributes; meanwhile, Brunnhilde herself was running around Asgard. So, there were two Valkyries simultaneously. I believe Brunnhilde died in the Ragnarok event that claimed Thor and just about every other Asgardian. Sam was still with the Defenders when its successor series The Order folded. So far as I know, that team—also including Hellcat and Nighthawk—has not made an appearance since. Hellcat and Nighthawk have, individually (heck, Nighthawk’s joined a couple of other teams since), but I’m not aware of any subsequent Valkyrie-Parrington appearances. Theoretically she’s still around somewhere. Hellcat was registered in She-Hulk; according to Civil War: Battle Damage Report, she is an Initiative recruit. Nighthawk was one of the “Secret Avengers” who defected to the pro-registration side after Goliath’s death; I don’t know of his current whereabouts. |
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Post by iastagehand on May 3, 2007 19:24:28 GMT -5
By the way, what's the status of the Defenders...? Where are Nighthawk, Hellcat & the Valkyrie...? are they part of the Initiative...? I imagine they are, otherwise, why wouldn't they be aiding their friend & ally Dr. Strange...? whatever happened to Moondragon? Always liked the bald chicks |
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Post by The Night Phantom on May 3, 2007 21:56:21 GMT -5
whatever happened to Moondragon? Always liked the bald chicks Seriously…Moonie was hanging out on Titan for a while with her main squeeze Phyla-Vell, who’s just become the new Quasar. That’s the second quantum-band-wearing Protector of the Universe named Quasar that Heather’s had the hots for. |
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Post by Nutcase65 on May 4, 2007 0:09:59 GMT -5
she'a also not happy that her new girlfriend is taking on the role of protector of the universe, either.
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