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Post by Nutcase65 on Mar 16, 2007 21:51:30 GMT -5
I haven't even cracked the first issue of any of the Ultimate titles.
What would be the best place to start to see if I have a feel for the product line?
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Post by dlw66 on Mar 16, 2007 22:50:36 GMT -5
The Ultimates, vol. 1 Ultimate Spider-Man, vol. 1-9
The former has a superior battle scene between the Avengers and the Hulk. The latter books contain work by the "competent" Brian Bendis. Volume 9 is a lot of fun -- it's called "Ultimate Six" and contains the Ultimate versions of the Sinister Six.
I never really got into the Ultimate X-Men book. I have all of the Ultimate FF comics. They are good, not great. The best issues seem to be supported by Greg Land's art (he flat-out, hands-down, no competition draws the most beautiful Susan Storm EVER!!!!).
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Post by Doctor Doom on Mar 17, 2007 4:07:19 GMT -5
Agreed.
Personally I think Ultimate Spider-Man wears down after a while though initially it is fantastic. I'd advise:
The Ultimates and The Ultimates 2 above all else. I cannot recommend them enough. The final battle of "Ultimates 2" is probably the best battle between two groups of superhumans I've ever read, and the final battle of The Ultimates #1 is probably the best giant super hero battle I've ever read!
For Ultimate Fantastic Four, I'd only recommend 20-32, which have both the best art (Greg Land) and easily the best writing. (They repair the godawful goat-legged ultimate Doom)
I'd also recommend Ultimate X-Men Volume 1 to six. It all falls apart after that, but those six are phenomenal.
....Yes, I'm aware every book I said was written by Mark Millar except USM, but to be fair he and Bendis are the biggest orchestrators of the ultimate universe and Bendis has only done two single arcs outside USM!
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Post by dlw66 on Mar 17, 2007 11:14:09 GMT -5
See, we're not so much different Personally I think Ultimate Spider-Man wears down after a while though initially it is fantastic. . Agreed! ;D The Ultimates and The Ultimates 2 above all else. I cannot recommend them enough. The final battle of "Ultimates 2" is probably the best battle between two groups of superhumans I've ever read, and the final battle of The Ultimates #1 is probably the best giant super hero battle I've ever read! Agreed!!!
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Post by Tana Nile on Mar 17, 2007 12:52:27 GMT -5
Get Ultimates vols 1 and 2 definitely. It's great stuff.
Just be prepared: these are NOT the same Avengers as in the 'regular' universe. My first exposure to Ultimates was an issue which depicted Hank Pym seriously assaulting Jan, and that alone turned me off to the book for some time. But this is another, more adult universe and the characters may have the same names but are not the exact same in personality or background.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Mar 18, 2007 16:48:59 GMT -5
OK, I placed an order, starting off slow. If I don't like them I'm gonna smite you guys. JK
But I might knock Doom through a ,.. oh wait, I said no more wall jokes. Sorry Doom
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Post by Yellowjacket on Mar 19, 2007 9:40:47 GMT -5
The Ultimates and The Ultimates 2 above all else. I cannot recommend them enough. The final battle of "Ultimates 2" is probably the best battle between two groups of superhumans I've ever read, and the final battle of The Ultimates #1 is probably the best giant super hero battle I've ever read! That is so true. The battles are simply phenomenal.
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Tone-Loc
Reservist Avenger
R.I.P. (... for now)
Posts: 200
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Post by Tone-Loc on Mar 19, 2007 11:57:45 GMT -5
Well, sorry to sound like a neophyte, but I just started The Ultimates vol I, and I found myselfy biting my tongue and pushing on through quite a few aspects.
I understand the "real life" perspective that Ultimates was written from, but to me I think the Ultimate Avengers animated films do a much better job of meshing the old MU and Ultimates ideaologies. Characters aren't depicted so entirely differently as to be laughable or even repugnant. The Betty Ross, Bruce Banner, and Hulk depictions for example. So Betty is a media-spinning ho-bag communications director, while Bruce Banner is a sniveling, pathetic, twerp loser of a man who can't stand up to anyone (much less Betty), and the Hulk is simply a horny beast. Yikes.
And Cap's jerk-wad attitude, which is more gung-ho and machismo than the embodiment of American Patriotic Spirit, is hard to take. Once again, I think a better compromise of the two characterizations is found in the Ultimate Avengers movies.
And what is up with all the celebrity hawking... Betty with Freddie Prinze, Jr. and Stark with Shannen Elizabeth. It wasn't the fact that they were there, it was the fact that they kept repeating their names over and over and over again... it seemed. Ugh. If they are trying to make a statement about our celebrity obsessed pop-culture fine, but is it necessary to beat us over the head. At least be accurate about it as well... I mean Larry King would be the biggest news icon of the last 50 years if he actually asked semi-tough questions like he is depicted in Ultimates.
I love alternate reality type stories, etc... but this one so far is just not really doing it for me. I am going to go ahead and pick up volume 2 and finish off The Ultimates, but unless it really just bowls me over, I doubt I will be picking up Ulitmates 2.
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Post by dlw66 on Mar 19, 2007 12:06:27 GMT -5
A fair assessment, to be sure. Some of your concerns are issues that I think all of us were aware of as we read the series for the first time. But, as many have maligned Millar for the mischaracterizations that took place in Civil War, I can tell you that I don't fault him at all for the delivery of this very alternate version of the Avengers. You said it yourself -- this is an alternate reality. And given that, Millar does an excellent job throughout the two volumes of the series in keeping people in line with who we've come to know them as in the Ultimate Universe. Cap and Iron Man both have some great scenes because of the concerns you've addressed.
So, take it for what it is -- it might make it a little more fun for you. I think Van referred to the Ulitmates long ago as a "guilty pleasure".
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Tone-Loc
Reservist Avenger
R.I.P. (... for now)
Posts: 200
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Post by Tone-Loc on Mar 19, 2007 14:32:55 GMT -5
You're right, DLW, of course. I am trying to look at it from that angle. And I want vol. 2 to up the enjoyment factor for me. We'll see...
and what is up with the new avatar? You have switched from our greatest symbol of freedom to a modern day Peeping Tom? Check out the solicits for the next couple of months of Ant-Man to see what I am talking about (cover art of him perched on a shower head, apparently peeping on Carol Danvers)... nice!
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Post by dlw66 on Mar 19, 2007 14:35:45 GMT -5
Whoa! I did not know that. Of course, it's a different Ant-Man now...
Maybe I'll switch back!
EDIT: I switched back to the Cap shield from an animation that showed Ant-Man shrinking.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Mar 19, 2007 18:36:38 GMT -5
I must question, tone, one thing you said- Well of course they do. But if there was no Ultimates, what exactly would the Ultimate Avengers be merging the old MU with? I like Ultimate Cap as a radically different take on normal Cap. And, unfortunately, probably a MUCH more realistic one. That said, anyone shows me any battle issue of any comic ever which can come close to Ultimates 2 #12 or Ultimates #12-#13 and I will give them my comics collection
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Tone-Loc
Reservist Avenger
R.I.P. (... for now)
Posts: 200
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Post by Tone-Loc on Mar 19, 2007 18:48:54 GMT -5
I must question, tone, one thing you said- Well of course they do. But if there was no Ultimates, what exactly would the Ultimate Avengers be merging the old MU with? I like Ultimate Cap as a radically different take on normal Cap. And, unfortunately, probably a MUCH more realistic one. That said, anyone shows me any battle issue of any comic ever which can come close to Ultimates 2 #12 or Ultimates #12-#13 and I will give them my comics collection Well, I understand your point, of course, but I was referring to the Ultimates idea/concept being better translated into Ultimate Avengers. The Ultimates being a "real-world" take on the MU, as I understand it. I don't think a real-world cap would be the kind of buy to kick someone in the jaw and do it with the attitude that he did it... a la Bruce Banner after the Hulk Takes Manhattan in order to hump Betty Ross and then Wasp. They almost seem to be polar opposites of themselves, rather than what the initial idea of the Ultimates would lead you to believe. I am also open to the idea that seeing the animated movies first may have gave me too much of a preconcieved notion about the Ultimates... whereas if I had read the books first, then perhaps my opinions might be reversed. I guess that is alot of words for... we'll see how I feel about it after I have read it all. And if issues 12-13 have the big battle, then I have something to look forward to in Vol. 2. Hey, mind is open. If Vol. 2 pans out for me, then I will look at giving Ultimates 2 a shake for sure.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Mar 25, 2007 16:16:45 GMT -5
Thanks for the info y'all. I was not disappointed and it helped that you guys had me prepared for the different 'texture' of the wiriting. I don't know if it is to my taste, but it was wort looking into. You gotta try new things, right?
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Post by dlw66 on Mar 25, 2007 17:18:40 GMT -5
Well, give us more! How much did you like it? Was it like Van once said -- a "guilty pleasure"? Did you have a hard time with the accentuated character quirks, like Hank's domestic abuse or Cap's ultra-patriotism?
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Post by Nutcase65 on Mar 25, 2007 18:41:12 GMT -5
OK, it's like this. I guess it's just hard for me to go "Oh hey there's Cap" and then have to say "What a pompous a$$" It is well written and if I were just coming into comics I would probably enjoy them. It's just hard for me to separate the two marvel realities. But I also don't just taste something once before deciding that I don't like it. I'm gonna read a few more issues to see if I can get my mind around it. It's hard being an old fogie.
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Post by dlw66 on Mar 25, 2007 18:58:20 GMT -5
As I said, I think the personalities are all there (for the most part; there are certainly some stretches...), just accentuated. I thought the scene where -- SPOILER, nutcase!!!!
Cap hunted down Hank and kicked his butt was awesome. Great Cap moment -- chivalry lives! The Hulk battle is one of the best ever, and showed what the old mini-series Damage Control, as well as the basis for Civil War (at least on the surface) was all about.
Some of Millar's characterizations seemed weird, but again, I keep coming back to how exaggerated they are. He took what MIGHT have been there (Wanda/Pietro, for example) and just made us go "Hmmmm....." about it.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Mar 27, 2007 16:30:25 GMT -5
Some of Millar's characterizations seemed weird, but again, I keep coming back to how exaggerated they are. He took what MIGHT have been there (Wanda/Pietro, for example) and just made us go "Hmmmm....." about it. Wha?! Wanda and Pietro? Not like Wanda and Pietromeets deliverance?
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 2, 2007 16:30:53 GMT -5
How can Millar have the characterzations wierd if they're characters HE CREATED?
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 29, 2007 15:47:23 GMT -5
I finally got around to reading an Ultimate. It was Spider-man 82.
There wasn't anything much going on, but it seems very well written. Pete's dating Kitty Pride? It makes sense for him to date a super. It also makes it clear this is breaking MJ's heart.
I like it and plan to get some more.
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Post by dlw66 on Apr 30, 2007 13:04:49 GMT -5
How can Millar have the characterzations wierd if they're characters HE CREATED? Not sure what you mean here. Are there any new characters in Ultimates? Certainly there are new characterizations, and yes, they seem weird as a departure from the norm.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 30, 2007 13:12:31 GMT -5
I mean these are Ultimate characters. They're totally new characters, who don't necessarily bear ANY similarity to 616, as Ultimate Cable will attest. I thought you were implying the characterizations weren't consistent or whatever, and since Millar made them that would be odd.
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Post by dlw66 on Apr 30, 2007 13:23:58 GMT -5
I mean these are Ultimate characters. They're totally new characters, who don't necessarily bear ANY similarity to 616, as Ultimate Cable will attest. I thought you were implying the characterizations weren't consistent or whatever, and since Millar made them that would be odd. I only read the first tpb for Ultimate X-Men, but let me say everyone in it was immediately recognizable. Same with Ultimates. We may have a different definition on "created". Cap: WWII hero, same costume Thor: Asgardian god -- while there were doubts cast on that, it did turn out that way. Roughly the same costume. Iron Man: same, alcohol and all. Giant-Man: same, and they even worked in the domestic abuse. Wasp: Asian girl, but roughly the same character -- a little spunkier here. Wanda: same powers, color scheme for costume. Pietro: ditto Hawkeye: probably the furthest departure in looks, but the same brash attitude Loki: no golden helmet with long horns, but easily identified through the writing. So I'm not sure we're on the same wavelength as far as the term "created"...
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Post by Doctor Doom on May 1, 2007 12:40:56 GMT -5
I only read the first tpb for Ultimate X-Men, but let me say everyone in it was immediately recognizable. I'll have to disagree with you. Ultimate X-Men was more simolar, although it DID set the precedent for 616 Xavier to go from "Manipulative" to "Practically Evil". And totally different personality? Personality IS a minor part of these guys, right? Okay, you don't mess with Thor. Most characters are similar but c'mon, you know the Thor thing doesn't gel. Ultimate Thor is the only radical departure from 616 who could stand as a totally seperate, BRILLIANT character on his own IMO. Madder, funner, ALL playboy. Apart from his breif mad period, Hank Pym 616 was NEVER as nuts as this obsessive compulsive! Fair enough. And very different personality and additude? Fair enough. Loki: no golden helmet with long horns, but easily identified through the writing.[/quote] Totally different powerset, motives, everything really. My point is, they are new characters. If Millar wanted Hawkeye to be a tutu-wearing elephant ballerina, he could have done so. But I don't see how these new characters, though undoubtedly similar to old ones (Don't fix what's not broken) should autmatically act exactly like the old ones, is what I'm saying.
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Post by dlw66 on May 1, 2007 14:47:06 GMT -5
If you'll be willing to go with "tweaked", or even "amended", I'll say thee "yea". I'm still not going "created", though.
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Post by Nutcase65 on May 1, 2007 15:27:26 GMT -5
On your encouragement I've ordered a run of Ultimates. I look froward to seeing wht I get.
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Post by Doctor Doom on May 1, 2007 16:26:03 GMT -5
Good luck, Nutty!
I still say create, dlw, but in the sense that any ultimate character is a different "creation". Maybe a modified version of an old one, but still distinctive.
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Post by dlw66 on May 1, 2007 20:40:23 GMT -5
Maybe a modified version of an old one We can leave it at this. Perhaps we're just arguing semantics.
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Post by Alchemist-X on May 6, 2007 0:27:25 GMT -5
Some characters follow more closely to their 616 counterparts than others do. Sometimes the only thing they have in common is their name. Other times the follow pretty closely to the general ideas that surround their 616 counterpart.
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Post by Nutcase65 on May 24, 2007 15:27:09 GMT -5
I am getting several Ultimate title back issues all at once. I liked the taste I got and want a little more
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