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Post by Shiryu on May 29, 2009 16:09:26 GMT -5
Because Bobc demanded it...
(well, his post just now in the other topic was the source of the idea ^^)
Who do you think are the smartest 5 people in the entire M.U.? This is setting aside omniscent cosmic beings and the like, just (more or less) regular folks.
Have at it!
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Post by woodside on May 29, 2009 18:43:13 GMT -5
Reed Richards
Hank Pym
Tony Stark
Doctor Doom
Mad Thinker (maybe)
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Post by Tana Nile on May 29, 2009 21:55:23 GMT -5
Intelligence can be a hard concept to define. It's not necessarily inclusive of wisdom, which I think reflects an aspect of perceptiveness. For example, I've met many people who are quite book-smart but had little common sense.
But for the case presented here, I'll assume we're talking about over-all knowledge and the ability to apply it. In that case I'd go with these:
1 and 2: A tie, Reed Richards and Dr. Doom. Both of these men are real polymaths (like the Professor on Gilligan's Island!) and I can't really say one has an edge over the other.
3. Tony Stark - by sheer virtue of his huge leaps in technology, so far beyond his contemporaries.
4. Hank Pym - his talents, while not as varied as Doom or Richards, include artificial intelligence, biochemistry, robotics, physics, etc. If he had more confidence, who knows what all he could achieve?
5. T'Challa - often forgotten, but when first encountered, Richards was extremely impressed with T'Challa's many technological wonders. He's shown himself to be knowledgeable in a number of fields, and is a capable inventor (the Quinjet and the Falcon's wings are just two of his creations).
I would have included Professor X, but I've always thought that his great intelligence was connected to his mutant abilities. I could say the same for Maximus. The villains are harder for me to judge, as so many of their schemes end in failure. But I'm sure the Wizard, Mad Thinker, and others are up there too.
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Post by humanbelly on May 29, 2009 22:34:15 GMT -5
(sigh) Always it's with the Hulk that I'm having to speak up for. . .
oy.
While I'm not demanding he be included in the top five--- is Bruce Banner hopefully getting some consideration? Maybe could get into the club on a good day?
I'm just sayin'. . .
HB
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Post by betaraybill on May 30, 2009 10:37:55 GMT -5
Any human who can solve the complexities of time travel, so Reed Richards, Victor Von Doom and Kang make my list. Tony Stark for sure. And my fifth is Pym.
I agree that T'Challa's up there. Same with Beast, Walt Langkowski, Bruce Banner and even Peter Parker (if he ever really applied himself that way)
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Doctor Bong
West Coast Avenger
Master of Belly Dancing (no, really...)!
Posts: 49
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Post by Doctor Bong on May 31, 2009 5:51:09 GMT -5
Intelligence can be a hard concept to define. It's not necessarily inclusive of wisdom, which I think reflects an aspect of perceptiveness. For example, I've met many people who are quite book-smart but had little common sense. But for the case presented here, I'll assume we're talking about over-all knowledge and the ability to apply it. In that case I'd go with these: 1 and 2: A tie, Reed Richards and Dr. Doom. Both of these men are real polymaths (like the Professor on Gilligan's Island!) and I can't really say one has an edge over the other. 3. Tony Stark - by sheer virtue of his huge leaps in technology, so far beyond his contemporaries. 4. Hank Pym - his talents, while not as varied as Doom or Richards, include artificial intelligence, biochemistry, robotics, physics, etc. If he had more confidence, who knows what all he could achieve? 5. T'Challa - often forgotten, but when first encountered, Richards was extremely impressed with T'Challa's many technological wonders. He's shown himself to be knowledgeable in a number of fields, and is a capable inventor (the Quinjet and the Falcon's wings are just two of his creations). I would have included Professor X, but I've always thought that his great intelligence was connected to his mutant abilities. I could say the same for Maximus. The villains are harder for me to judge, as so many of their schemes end in failure. But I'm sure the Wizard, Mad Thinker, and others are up there too. I agree with Tana that it is difficult to compose a mixed list of heroes and villians for this cathegory, so I will just submit one list for each... Heroes: 1) Reed Richards 2) Hank Pym (almost as universally knowledgeable as Reed but I agree, confidence is his Achilles Heel) 3) Bruce Banner. He's been shown at different times to be an extraordinary genius and not just on his original field of expertise, Physics. 4) Tony Stark 5) T'Challa. Villians: 1) Doctor Doom 2) Leader 3) Mandarin 4) Yellow Claw (is he even alive anymore...?) Like Reed or Hank, he was shown at different times as being able to master different scientific fields. 5) Wizard I'm probably forgetting more than one significant character when it comes to the villians... I have to admit my knowledge of the X-verse is sorely lacking... I'm remembering now that I read at some FF annual (can't remember which one...) a feature where Doctor Doom rated the smarts of other MU villians... of course, in his appretiation, nobody could even come close to himself! |
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Post by Shiryu on May 31, 2009 8:14:55 GMT -5
My list would be
Doctor Doom
Reed Richards
Tony Stark
Bruce Banner
Hank Pym
I think Doom would be a fraction smarter than Reed, were he humble enough to put his pride apart and learn from his mistakes. There have been a few instances were he solved problems that Reed couldn't (Fantastic Four vs X-Men, or the recently discussed birth of Valeria spring to mind). He hal also mastered magic as well as science, which is quite a feat.
Tony Stark seems the one with the most common sense. He has a very practical mind and unlike the others is seldom seen creating just for the fun of it. Pym and Banner are probably more damages by their personalities than even Doom is!
I haven't included Black Panther because so far I have only read him in the Avengers, and as mentioned in the other topic he didn't seem as brilliant as these 5. I'll probably rethink the list when I finally have time to read the early FF stories.
Peter Parker has received a number of compliments over the years, with even people like Pym or the Wizard saying that he could be smarter than them. However this usually happens in his own books, and writers tend to emphatize the characters they write. Still it's a pity he doesn't apply more, a few patents and his economic problems could be solved quite easily.
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Post by dlw66 on May 31, 2009 22:31:03 GMT -5
Just curious, Bong -- why do you keep re-registering??? How many accounts do you need? Does Van give you a kickback if the board membership gets to a certain level??
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Doctor Bong
West Coast Avenger
Master of Belly Dancing (no, really...)!
Posts: 49
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Post by Doctor Bong on Jun 1, 2009 5:54:15 GMT -5
Appropriately (or not...!) enough, the reason is... well, let's just say that I'm NOT one of the 5 smartest (or even one of the 5'000,000 smartest...) people living in the R(eal) U and let's leave it at that. It has happened a couple of times (or was it 3...?) that, without my doing, I get "kicked out" of my AA account and then I can't recollect for the life of me what password I've used (or even if I'm using the right e-mail address...)!  |
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Post by Shiryu on Jun 1, 2009 6:39:42 GMT -5
That's why it's never a good option to stay logged-in forever, it's a nightmare to remember the password if you don't type it often.
Anyway, I think I can set you a new password for one of your old accounts, so you can log-in again and change it to something else. Shall I do it?
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Doctor Bong
West Coast Avenger
Master of Belly Dancing (no, really...)!
Posts: 49
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Post by Doctor Bong on Jun 1, 2009 8:48:38 GMT -5
That's why it's never a good option to stay logged-in forever, it's a nightmare to remember the password if you don't type it often. Anyway, I think I can set you a new password for one of your old accounts, so you can log-in again and change it to something else. Shall I do it? By all means, Shiryu, and thank you very much!  |
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Post by bobc on Jun 1, 2009 11:04:50 GMT -5
I never saw Dr Doom as very smart for some reason. I also have never really followed the Hulk to see how smart Bruce Banner was/is.
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Post by Shiryu on Jun 1, 2009 12:10:49 GMT -5
That's why it's never a good option to stay logged-in forever, it's a nightmare to remember the password if you don't type it often. Anyway, I think I can set you a new password for one of your old accounts, so you can log-in again and change it to something else. Shall I do it? By all means, Shiryu, and thank you very much! I've checked and it seems that I'm not powerful enough to change somebodyelse's password. I have modified the e-mail address of your oldest account changing it to the one you use currently, so the board should send you a confirmation mail hopefully containing the password too. If not let me know and we'll ask Van to fix it. |
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Post by bobc on Jun 1, 2009 13:25:25 GMT -5
I am one of the five dumbest posters. Reed Richards is in MENSA--I'm in DENSA.
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Doctor Bong
West Coast Avenger
Master of Belly Dancing (no, really...)!
Posts: 49
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Post by Doctor Bong on Jun 2, 2009 9:19:36 GMT -5
Oh, now I'm remembering Amadeus Cho... isn't he supposed to be up there on this list, according to Reed himself...? I guess it's easy to overlook him because he's such a new arrival to the MU.
P.S.: No, Shiryu, I didn't get any confirmation e-mail.
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Post by Shiryu on Jun 2, 2009 13:20:36 GMT -5
Oh, now I'm remembering Amadeus Cho... isn't he supposed to be up there on this list, according to Reed himself...? I guess it's easy to overlook him because he's such a new arrival to the MU. As he likes to remember everyone, he is *only* the 7th smartest ^^ Strange, I'll look into it |
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Post by dlw66 on Jun 4, 2009 10:42:41 GMT -5
Any human who can solve the complexities of time travel, so Reed Richards, Victor Von Doom and Kang make my list. Tony Stark for sure. And my fifth is Pym. Did Kang conquer time travel, or did Kang conquer others who already knew about time travel? And, did Doom figure out time travel in this era, or is his relationship to Kang how he figured out time travel? |
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Post by bobc on Jun 8, 2009 8:33:49 GMT -5
That's a good question DL--I honestly can't recall where Dr Doom got his time machine from but it seems like he's had since virtually the beginning.
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Post by betaraybill on Jun 8, 2009 21:13:20 GMT -5
Any human who can solve the complexities of time travel, so Reed Richards, Victor Von Doom and Kang make my list. Tony Stark for sure. And my fifth is Pym. Did Kang conquer time travel, or did Kang conquer others who already knew about time travel? And, did Doom figure out time travel in this era, or is his relationship to Kang how he figured out time travel? Kang would have to be a genius to keep the actual chronology of his appearances straight. |
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Post by ultron69 on Jun 9, 2009 7:03:01 GMT -5
hmmm, tough
1) Reed Richards
2) Dr. Doom
3) Tony Stark
4) Hank Pym
5) T'Challa
Honorable mentions to Hank McCoy, Bruce Banner, and Peter Parker. Maybe even Egghead?
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Post by Wonder Man 2 on Jun 9, 2009 8:05:14 GMT -5
Hummmm...... not an easy task to put it down to the top five, but here goes.....
5. The fixer
4. Tony Stark
3. The Mad Thinker
2. Hank Pym
1. Reed Richards and Victor von Doom (I tied them, because even though Doom always seems to think of an invention first, the time machine, the Negitive Zone portal, ext, Reed always seems to figure it out eventually. Plus Marvel never did say which was actually smarter.)
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Post by freedomfighter on Jun 10, 2009 19:05:05 GMT -5
I've always thought Reed and Doom are actually pretty dopey.
Reed doesn't shield his ship enough to prevent him and his friends from potentially life threatening radiation, turns his best friend into a carnival freak, Doom messes up a few fractions (I was doing fractions in GRADE SCHOOL, man) and ends up blowing his face up, Reed shows both Blastarr and Annilihus how to get to Earth, Doom gets hypnotized into thinking the FF are dead (and then never reads a newspaper evidently) and then accidentally falls out of his own ship, seemingly to his death (way to rock being a master villain there, Doom...), Reed somehow doesn't check to see if his child will have some genetic mutation and we end up with Franklin who ends up being used to nearly destroy the world a dozen times, Reed for some reason seems to think that Galactus has a purpose in life more important than the billions of worlds and beings that he destroys, so he petitions a galactic court to let him live (I'm pretty dang sure the twenty trillion folks who've died to feed Galactus since then don't agree with Reed...).
I would put up more of these but my hot pockets are ready.
Hah, but seriously, a really smart person finds a way to rectify their mistakes, so that disqualifies Reed, Doom and Banner as they just seem to get worse and worse off. None of these genuises have come up with a single invention that has much potential to help mankind either. A genius does more than innovate, they have to be able to direct their genius in a positive fashion.
So my first choice would be Hank Pym. He created artificial sentience. Yes Ultron went bad, but that's like blaming a person when their kid turns out bad. My point about an invention that goes bad with the other folks doesn't count with Ultron because Ultron owns his own actions, he is his own person. You can't create life and control its actions or it's not free willed and sentient.
Also Pym particles have the best chance to save the planet. Can you imagine how shrinking imported and exported cargo would save billions in gas and manpower? The world would be saved in weeks...
He also conquered communication between humans and insects. That by itself is simply amazing. Think how many fields of crops would be saved if we could just say "don't eat these..." A truly smart person with a ton of useful ideas in the real world.
Tony Stark's armor is the most advanced fighting weapon on the planet. Anyone can use it as evidenced by the people who've worn his armor over the years and has few side effects. It can stand up to gods and fight armies and save ocean liners.
The Wizard has unquestionably conquered gravity, one of the fundamental forces of the universe, with no ill effects. I would be upset if Reed Richards got all the limelight too.
The Black Panther has all kinds of amazing toys and lots of genius (didn't they say he had a cure for cancer in Hudlin's first issue?), but does he even use it to help anyone but his own people? He loses points for not sharing that wealth, but he wins out on my list for having no detriment other than being paranoid.
Dr. Abel Stack created Machine Man and fifty other sentient robots (that all went mad BTW, maybe there's something about giving a machine artificial intelligence). Dr. Horton inventor of the Human Torch only did it once and didn't quite understand it. Machine Man in addition to being sentient also had a host of amazing powers and saved the world a hundred times. So my list:
Hank Pym
Tony Stark
The Wizard
Black Panther
Dr. Abel Stack
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Post by humanbelly on Jun 11, 2009 8:34:14 GMT -5
I've always thought Reed and Doom are actually pretty dopey. Reed doesn't shield his ship enough to prevent him and his friends from potentially life threatening radiation, turns his best friend into a carnival freak, Doom messes up a few fractions (I was doing fractions in GRADE SCHOOL, man) and ends up blowing his face up, Reed shows both Blastarr and Annilihus how to get to Earth, Doom gets hypnotized into thinking the FF are dead (and then never reads a newspaper evidently) and then accidentally falls out of his own ship, seemingly to his death (way to rock being a master villain there, Doom...), Reed somehow doesn't check to see if his child will have some genetic mutation and we end up with Franklin who ends up being used to nearly destroy the world a dozen times, Reed for some reason seems to think that Galactus has a purpose in life more important than the billions of worlds and beings that he destroys, so he petitions a galactic court to let him live (I'm pretty dang sure the twenty trillion folks who've died to feed Galactus since then don't agree with Reed...). I would put up more of these but my hot pockets are ready. Hah, but seriously, a really smart person finds a way to rectify their mistakes, so that disqualifies Reed, Doom and Banner as they just seem to get worse and worse off. None of these genuises have come up with a single invention that has much potential to help mankind either. A genius does more than innovate, they have to be able to direct their genius in a positive fashion. Wellllll, of course, there's a difference between being smart and being wise. The former doesn't take quirks and flaws in personality into account, and the latter tempers the intellect with them. I mean, as far as being a Human Calculator? Geeze, it would have to be Reed, hands-down-- with possibly the Mad Thinker (of all bozos) giving him some stiff competition. Doom doesn't nearly reach their level because, if nothing else, he's too impatient for results, and can't be bothered w/ the trivia of careful attention to detail. That one, brilliant, initial tragic flaw has always defined him, I think. Also, Doom is historically more reliant on coercing others to use their knowledge to his advantage, as I recall (Puppet Master, a couple of ex-Nazi scientists, etc), and is quick to master their work once its in his hands. In terms of using their knowledge & intellect to solve a crisis? 1)Reed Richards 2)Tony Stark 3)Mad Thinker (Lord, I hate even having him on the list) 4)Hank Pym 5)cripes--- I don't have an obvious 5th. Lump in T'Challa, Bruce Banner, Hank McCoy, Wizard, and potentially Peter Parker, if he'd ever get his behind back into the lab. HB |
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