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Post by bobc on Mar 24, 2009 9:34:39 GMT -5
Hey Guys. I just bought the Essential Defenders #1 the other day and was amazed how good the first ten issues of the Defenders was (with the exception of the first issue). The art is top notch and there was something really, really exciting about having four of Marvel's most powerful characters (Hulk, Dr, Strange, Sub-Mariner, and Silver Surfer), every single one of them on the outskirts of the Marvel mainstream, all together in one group. The Hulk made every issue unpredictable, which made it exciting.
Beyond that, in re-reading this stuff for the first time since I was a kid, I was struck by what a great character the Valkyrie was when she first came out. She was TRULY Marvel's first awesomely powerful super female. The Valkyrie came along waaaaay before Storm, way before Phoenix and way before the Invisible Woman got her powers upgraded.
People have forgotten that in the early days of this character, the Valkyrie was on a power level close to the Hulk and the Sub Mariner--and I remember how exciting it was to see a female super-hero actually take on both the Hulk and Sub-Mariner at the same time, and give them a run for their money!
But as was the case with ALL female characters at Marvel in the 70's, the Valkyrie was quickly de-powered and d-listed to the point that after a few dozen issues she was getting in a "sword fight" with a human magician with a cane, and losing. This was a long drop from the days when she almost single-handedly fought the Sub-Mariner and Hulk to a standstill and then cut the head off the Omegatron.
But for a while there she was really, really exciting. It kind of reminded me how the Scarlet Witch went from fighting and almost beating the Enchantress by herself in the mid sixties to passing out after two useless hexes in the late 60's. UHG! thank GOD Marvel writers in the mid seventies got on the ball and brought out truly formidable female characters like Storm, Phoenix and She-Hulk--and GASP these women became as popular as the male characters!!
I really hope someone does something with the Valkyrie. She deserves some respect. Thoughts?
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Post by goldenfist on Mar 24, 2009 12:45:53 GMT -5
Last I saw her she is on the new Lady Liberators with She-Hulk
fighting against the Red Hulk.
She was also in the Hulk vs Thor movie, She was on her horse
before Hulk just threw her off.
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Post by michidiers on Mar 25, 2009 12:11:26 GMT -5
I had the last encounter with this mighty female yesterday! In the PS 2 game Unltimate Alliance she appeared in the "asgard level". There she wasn´t a charakter to fight with. I (as Wolverine in the game) only can spoke with her in the Valhalla to get some infomations for the game!
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Post by bobc on Mar 25, 2009 13:07:03 GMT -5
You should have fought her anyway. He has attitude.
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Post by Tana Nile on Mar 25, 2009 15:08:03 GMT -5
I don't have the Defenders issues with Valkyrie's early stories, so it was surprising to read how powerful she was at that time. They certainly scaled her back quite a bit, but then that's nothing new.
I did buy recent issues of both Hulk and She-Hulk just to see her and Thundra again, although it was disappointing that they couldn't give that 'red' Hulk a better fight.
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Post by bobc on Mar 26, 2009 12:49:01 GMT -5
Tana you really should look up those early Defenders stories--they are excellent. Particularly the issues right before and after the Valkyrie joined. It was pretty much mediocre after then. If you are a John Buscema fan, you will be shocked at how similar his brother Sal's art was at the time.
De-powering female characters was the rule back then. I said this a long time ago on this forum, but it bears repeating: when a Marvel writer took over the Avengers in the 70's (I can't recall which guy it was), the previous writer actually warned him never to make the Scarlet Witch "too powerful." I found that really interesting in a sociological sense--a sign of the times I guess.
But yeah--the Valkyrie was capable of going one on one with the Hulk and the Sub-Mariner early on. She was capable of ripping a truck-sized chunk of machinery out of the Omegatron and throwing it at the Hulk & SM.
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Post by michidiers on Mar 26, 2009 16:15:03 GMT -5
You should have fought her anyway. He has attitude. Unfortunately it wasn´t possible to fight together with her or against her. But in the PS 2 game, another marvel-charakter with the name "the weasel" fell head over heels in love with the valkyre. ;D But she didn´t want him!  |
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Post by Shiryu on Mar 30, 2009 17:58:00 GMT -5
I've read those Defenders books, and agree that she was very strong in the very early issues. But I've always struggled to understand the character. Just how many Valkyries exist? I've seen at least 2 around, one in Hulk and then one in Defenders, and that confused me quite a lot, especially since the 2nd never references the 1st from what I remember.
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Post by goldenfist on Mar 30, 2009 18:51:36 GMT -5
I saw her in the Avengers/Defenders War storyline where Hawke
ye liked and kissed but she got mad and almost cut his head off
for doing that.
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Post by bobc on Mar 31, 2009 8:59:21 GMT -5
Shiryu--I understand what you mean. Marvel is so incoherent these days that it does seem like there are fifty Valkyries running around and it's really hard to care about a character when that happens. The "new" Valkyrie in the Hulk/She Hulk world speaks old school Asgardian, which is something the original Valkyrie never did so I guess this is just another example of Marvel not giving a d**n about its own history. Also--that Loeb clown has another version of the Valkyrie in one of his books. Uhg
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Post by dlw66 on Apr 16, 2009 21:33:45 GMT -5
Bob -- I just picked up the Essential Defenders Vol. I, largely at your recommendation. As a youngster I came to the team a little later, about the time the Guardians of the Galaxy were guest-starring and everyone was fighting the Badoon. I had seen some of the earlier issues of the book, but not the very earliest issues. Since the initial stories are by two of my favorite Bronze Age creators in Steve Englehart and Sal Buscema, I thought I'd give this a whirl! Thanks for the recommendation! EDIT: Actually, my first issue was #14 -- just got done leafing through the book. I love the Essentials -- so much comic goodness for so few dollars!!  |
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Post by bobc on Apr 17, 2009 9:23:33 GMT -5
I'm glad you liked it, DL! Isn't it amazing how much Sal's art looked like John's in those first few issues? I especially loved the storyline where the Valkyrie came onboard. I thought the art was right up there with the late 60's Avengers stuff, and the stories were exciting. Each of the characters had a very defined personality at the time--you had a very arrogant Namor, a very detached Silver Surfer, the Hulk was just confused and hostile most of the time, Dr. Strange was the calm, level-headed anchor, the Black Knight was thoroughly human as opposed to the others, and the Valkyrie was sucha wild card. I loved how she wanted to join the Defenders and Namor wasn't having it--saying he had no need for human companionship.
I think the Valkyrie's response was one of Marvel's greatest lines ever: "You'd desire it if you'd never had it. How self-centered you are..."
That line perfectly summed up the Sub-Mariner's haughty character at the time--as well as the Valkyrie's confusion over being basically created out of nothingness.
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Post by bobc on Apr 17, 2009 9:28:08 GMT -5
What a nerd I am that i can actually quote lines from 35 YO comics...
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Post by Ignore Me! on Apr 17, 2009 13:28:06 GMT -5
What a nerd I am that i can actually quote lines from 35 YO comics... Embrace the Nerdness my friend. Embrace it! |
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Post by bobc on Apr 17, 2009 14:18:13 GMT -5
YES!!!
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