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Post by Van Plexico on Jan 14, 2007 21:34:39 GMT -5
So, according to Quesada, JMS proposed a five-issue miniseries for after Civil War, called "Fallen Sons," which Jeph Loeb is writing. www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NewJoeFridays30.htmlIt covers the death of someone at the end of Civil War, with each issue dealing with a different character facing a different aspect of someone dying: 1. Wolverine: Denial-- he goes looking for a conspiracy. 2. Newer New Avengers vs Mighty Avengers: Anger. 3. Cap: Bargaining 4. Spidey: Depression 5. Mystery person: Acceptance So we're here talking about this, and trying to figure out who dies, that would cause the above people to react in those ways. And all I can think of is Tony Stark. It's obviously Avengers-related; not an X-Man or FF person. Wolverine would want to investigate; the Avengers might come to blows over it; Cap would be both glad the war is over and sad about Tony (thus bargaining within himself); Spidey would be depressed that things worked out this way with his mentor... And I think maybe that fifth issue would be from the perspective of whomever takes over the armor, once they "accept" that Tony's dead. And of course, a year and a half from now, Wolverine or whomever else discovers it *was* a conspiracy and rescues Tony, just in time for his movie to debut. Thoughts??
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Post by thew40 on Jan 14, 2007 22:41:15 GMT -5
I'm betting it won't be Iron Man, but maybe someone close to him. Hank Pym is a possibility. But with the movie coming out next year, I can't see it being him. I think it's interesting to have Jeph Loeb writing this, considering all he's been through. ~W~
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Post by uberwolf on Jan 14, 2007 23:08:57 GMT -5
I haven't followed civil war at all but has anyone heard what Cap is doing after the war? If it's not Tony then maybe Steve?
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Post by Van Plexico on Jan 15, 2007 11:05:45 GMT -5
The main thing that got me thinking it was Tony, aside from my previously stated reasons, was that Iron Man is very noticably absent from the list of five titles. And the title of the fifth one will, according to Quesada, "give it away." Hmmm.
My other thought was that it could be the Winter Soldier, but I've only read the first half of the CAP TPBs so far, so I don't know WS's whole story yet.
Re: it being Hank Pym-- Would Spidey be depressed, really? Would Wolverine care enough to go on a quest for answers?? And how would the title of #5 give this away, unless it is "Giant Man" or something like that..?
Re: it being Cap-- Issue 3 is "Captain America," and is "bargaining." SO.... maybe... but where's Shellhead?
I dunno, just throwing this stuff out...
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Post by The Night Phantom on Jan 15, 2007 20:49:05 GMT -5
It covers the death of someone at the end of Civil War Point of clarification: it’s possible I’ve missed it, but I don’t believe the New Joe Fridays article states that Fallen Son is about someone’s death (real or faked). Joe Quesada does say it “is constructed within the five stages of grief. Grief over what? Well, you’ll have to wait and see.” It is true that Marvel’s April solicitations do claim that the first issue has Wolverine reacting to “the death of one the most beloved characters in the Marvel Universe”, but it’s not yet clear that the entire series is about said death. It’s possible that the grief stems from something else connected to that death (e.g., the establishment of a police state vis-à-vis superheroing). At this point, I tend toward the idea that the grief is about a death, but I don’t feel there’s yet enough information to be certain. Here are some ideas I suggested when specifically discussing the solicitation for the Wolverine issue: My guesses: the alleged death in question takes place in CW #7, and it isn’t Typeface that Wolverine is worried about. My lead theory is that Cap fakes his death, possibly with Tony’s blessing, and takes on a new costumed identity (Ronin?). Then again, maybe it’s Mary Jane or May Parker who has “died”? Logan did develop a personal relationship with Pete’s family. Faking MJ’s death could satisfy Joe Quesada’s desire to see Peter single again without making him a divorcé or a widower (for real), and it could explain the reversion to the black costume, which could represent mourning but is also a costume that Peter abandoned because of MJ’s traumatization by the original Venom. If it does turn out to be Iron Man, then who’s in the Iron Man armor (e.g., in Mighty Avengers) after Civil War? Well, I suppose it could still be Tony Stark, who used to maintain that the “original” Iron Man died in the so-called Armor Wars. After New Avengers #25, I have this weird notion it could be Maria Hill, in another Bendis gender bender.
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Post by redstatecap on Jan 15, 2007 22:28:12 GMT -5
The main thing that got me thinking it was Tony, aside from my previously stated reasons, was that Iron Man is very noticably absent from the list of five titles. And the title of the fifth one will, according to Quesada, "give it away." Hmmm. My other thought was that it could be the Winter Soldier, but I've only read the first half of the CAP TPBs so far, so I don't know WS's whole story yet. Re: it being Hank Pym-- Would Spidey be depressed, really? Would Wolverine care enough to go on a quest for answers?? And how would the title of #5 give this away, unless it is "Giant Man" or something like that..? Re: it being Cap-- Issue 3 is "Captain America," and is "bargaining." SO.... maybe... but where's Shellhead? I dunno, just throwing this stuff out... I'm not saying that Iron Man isn't a likely prospect, but you could use the same reasoning vis-a-vis IM as you do with Hank. That is, does Wolverine really know Tony well enough to be emotionally invested in IM's "death?" Of course this whole line of reasoning presupposes that the writer is writing the characters as we know them, when in fact the salient feature of CW is that the characters aren't being written as we know them. So, can we really draw any useful information from this? If it can be taken at face value that Spidey, Cap, and Wolverine all survive due to the fact that these titles feature them, the list of possibilties is short indeed. Reed Richards is a possibility that hasn't been mentioned. RSC
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Post by thew40 on Jan 16, 2007 9:53:14 GMT -5
Reed Richards is a possibility that hasn't been mentioned. Oh yeah, I didn't even think about that. Heck, it could be Sue. Van - I think you're right about me being wrong about it being Hank. But I still don't think it's IM. ~W~
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Post by Van Plexico on Jan 16, 2007 22:49:36 GMT -5
Maria Hill as Iron Man, and "Tony Stark, Director of SHIELD." It's so stupid, it just might be true.
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Post by thew40 on Jan 17, 2007 1:58:53 GMT -5
I think I could handle "Tony Stark, Director of SHIELD." But Maria Hill as Iron Man? Ugh.
~W~
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jkemble
Reservist Avenger
the Cosmic Frog
Posts: 243
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Post by jkemble on Jan 17, 2007 2:08:39 GMT -5
I vote: Iron Man
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BigDuke
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 136
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Post by BigDuke on Jan 17, 2007 15:29:56 GMT -5
I posted to the poll and the more I think about it the more I am convinced (or deluding myself) that it will be Stark. He is a central enough character that all of the others listed will respond. Iron Man can go on without him (anyone seen the new Hypervelocity mini that is out?). The MA have MS Marvel instead of IM in the lead position. Plus it would be a fitting "end" for Stark to make the ultimate sacrifice after sacrificing so much of himself in this conflict.
Cap has too much set up for post CW and his book is selling well.
Pym is the MU whipping boy and will need to be around to go nuts again.
Reed is way to important in the MU and I just don't see the alternatives for the FF lasting long. Plus, he will need to save Tony from his "death" in the Negative Zone (collect his atoms or whatever).
Regardless of who it is, they won't stay dead.
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Post by The Night Phantom on Jan 17, 2007 19:49:59 GMT -5
Maria Hill as Iron Man, and "Tony Stark, Director of SHIELD." It's so stupid, it just might be true. I’ll take that as a compliment. ;D
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Post by balok on Jan 21, 2007 22:51:23 GMT -5
This would only work for me if the suit once again gained autonomy and slammed itself repeatedly into buildings, cars, boulders, the ground until it ran out of energy. I cannot stand Maria Hill.
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Post by Tana Nile on Feb 10, 2007 20:18:36 GMT -5
Take this for what it's worth, but my local comics shop manager said that word is, Captain America will not die but be incapacitated in some way such that he can no longer be Captain America. This is the 'fallen son' of the title. He also said that Cap's book would continue but it was unclear if there would actually be a Captain America in the book.
Of course, if this is true, I wouldn't expect to see Marvel go very long without someone as Cap. Seems like the most likely replacement would be Bucky. Or Steve recovers within a year and is back in the red, white, and blue.
I really hope this is not the case. I've already seen replacement Caps a couple of times, so there's nothing original about it.
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Post by dlw66 on Feb 10, 2007 22:26:35 GMT -5
Sort of smells like the " Broken Bat" storyline of the mid-'90's to me, if that's the case.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Feb 11, 2007 17:44:53 GMT -5
Brubaker has said in an interview that Steve will be Cap post civil war. So that kinda rules that out.
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jkemble
Reservist Avenger
the Cosmic Frog
Posts: 243
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Post by jkemble on Feb 11, 2007 23:02:00 GMT -5
gotta link? did he mention x-men plans?
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Post by Doctor Doom on Feb 12, 2007 17:33:38 GMT -5
Yes, it was Livewireworld I'll see if I can find the exact link.
Oh, and previews for May solicits indicate pretty d**n strongly that Tony won't be shuffling the mortal coil.
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jkemble
Reservist Avenger
the Cosmic Frog
Posts: 243
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Post by jkemble on Feb 12, 2007 18:27:04 GMT -5
cool, if you can produce, I'll hit you with karma!
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jkemble
Reservist Avenger
the Cosmic Frog
Posts: 243
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Post by jkemble on Feb 12, 2007 18:28:11 GMT -5
here's a karma just for getting me interested...
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Post by redstatecap on Feb 12, 2007 22:41:48 GMT -5
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Post by Doctor Doom on Feb 13, 2007 15:51:40 GMT -5
Bah! RSC got there first. Anyway, that's the link indeed.
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Post by thew40 on Feb 13, 2007 18:32:01 GMT -5
From the new solicits, it almost looks like Iron Man and Cap will make it out of the war.
I wonder if either Reed or Sue buy it?
~W~
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jkemble
Reservist Avenger
the Cosmic Frog
Posts: 243
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Post by jkemble on Feb 13, 2007 21:03:20 GMT -5
Done! thanks RSC!
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Post by Shiryu on Feb 14, 2007 4:52:40 GMT -5
Is there any hint on Daredevil being alive and Murdock after CW ? It just flashed to me that Bendis loves DD and since we will have an unidentified Ronin in the NA team, it wouldn't surprise me if the "fallen son" is Matt. Of course, this would totally not make sense from a CW POV, given the little space Matt has had in the book...
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Post by balok on Feb 28, 2007 10:59:27 GMT -5
Well, there's one possibility that I can think of, based on what has happened in Amazing Spider-Man recently, although the book ended on a cliffhanger. But it seems hard to imagine writing a five issue series about this particular individual.
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shandon
New Avenger
With great power comes great responsibility
Posts: 7
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Post by shandon on Feb 28, 2007 23:22:01 GMT -5
Agreed. And even if there were a five-issue mini based on the reactions to the death of this particular individual (and let me make it clear that the cliffhanger did not indicate whether there was a death) I think the title "Fallen Son" would not be the title they chose. It just doesn't seem the appropriate title.
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Post by redstatecap on Mar 1, 2007 10:34:03 GMT -5
You know, thinking about it a bit, I can't see which character's dying would satisfy the plot and the readers' emotional expectations. That is, ruling out Cap and Iron Man, who would be the obvious choices in this regard. Can't see it being cash-cow Spider-Man. Reed? Maybe. Outside of Reed, pretty much anyone else would just leave me thinking: "Huh? What was the point of that? And who cares?"
RSC
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Post by balok on Mar 1, 2007 12:26:25 GMT -5
Unless it is someone who has not yet died. If the New Avengers represent the unsurrendered underground there are likely to be more conflicts. And considering that the Initiative has a number of stone killers working for it, there could be more mayhem in Marvel's future.
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Post by redstatecap on Mar 1, 2007 12:42:31 GMT -5
Well, unless Marvel is outright lying, "Fallen Son" is obviously about a pending death and not a character that's already died in CW. There's my question -- Ruling out Cap and IM, who else is important enough that we are supposed to believe all this Fallen Son stuff is going to revolve around him? Reed? Spider-Man? Those are the only two good options I see. Nick Fury has been suggested, but as he has played zero part in CW and has been mostly absent from the MU for a year or two, this would be a curious move from a storytelling perspective.
RSC
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