New Avengers 21 cover

[Van Plexico]

Just posted the cover to NEW AVENGERS #21 on the main AA page:

www.avengersassemble.net

[dlw66]

Does Marvel have some 5-year old in charge of marketing these days?

Question -- there have always been crossovers, and for the most part in the old days they were fun. But are any of these "big events" going on at Marvel or DC these days really watershed events in the lives of the characters we love? Over on the "Stupid Question" thread in Classic Avengers, do you realize how dumb it sounds to actually recap the past 3 years of Avengers continuity??

I know I should probably start a new thread for my question, but I'll leave it here anyway. Question is -- name a "watershed event" that stayed that way for more than 10 years.

Angel's metal wings: no
Batman's broken back: no
Vision turns white: no
Superman dies: no

[Van Plexico]

Point well taken. Once you take it out to ten years, you really do see the "reset button" being pushed on just about everything like that.

Probably the only events that stayed that way ten years or more have been the deaths of significant characters-- and then only some of them:

Captain Mar-Vell is still dead.
Uncle Ben is still dead.

Hmm...

I think I might have heard that Bucky is alive again, but I haven't read CAP to be sure yet.

Jean Grey is alive... dead... alive... dead... I've lost track.

[bobc]

I know whatcha mean, Van. I think characters oughtta stay dead. The only one who made sense coming back was Phoenix, and that should only have been once. You know, back in 1975.

[Avenger4Ever]

I've been reading/collecting comics for nearly 35 years now and I have seen many stories and plots recyled. Dead characters revived and short lived "Major Shakeups" from both of the big companies.
When it comes to comics everything old is new again and no one is really dead except for a very small chosen few. Par for the course.

A4E

[dlw66]

Do you suppose that's because they think new readers don't know old plots? Do they not think they have any readers who are 40-ish? I just wonder if that's really their take, because if it is, and they are constantly reprinting their entire stock of material in Essentials, the CD-ROMs that are coming out annually, sooner or later even the young readers are going to catch on.

[Shiryu]

I agree on that.
The thing is that characters die too easily, just to sell more copies, and then they have to be brought back to life because fans protest a lot (rightly I may add). If they kept death as an unique and nearly irreversible event, it would have a much bigger impact on the readers.

[dlw66]

If anyone knows different, please add: I once heard that the license on a character name/likeness had a relatively short duration, and that is one reason why companies will bring back a character name, even if it is not the same person in the suit (or use a name with a different suit, such as Captain Marvel (Monica), Batgirl, etc.).

[Avenger4Ever]

I have heard that as well. I don't know the specifics but, I believe that the character must be in print every so often to retain rights. That's how DC Comics lost the right to the Captain Marvel name once they acquired him from Fawcett Comics. When they finally went to use him after a long hiatus, Marvel Comics already had a Captain Marvel of their own in print, so DC had to retitle their book SHAZAM instead. Marvel has been real good about not losing their ownership of that name.

A4E

[Shiryu]

I didn't know this.
But even in this case, I assume they could print a what if story with that character, or a miniseries in the past, or something else, without bringing him back to life.
Also, wouldn't Marvel have lost the rights to publish characters such as Bucky in this case ?

[dlw66]

But if you think about it, reprints count, flashbacks count, etc. Even if there is an extended period when, say Robin was dead, any shot of the Batcave always has that Robin suit suspended in the big "test tube"... That alone keeps the license alive. Plus, specifically in regard to Bucky (or even moreso to Toro), the copyright laws from the 40's-50's have probably changed since then. I believe American copyright laws for music stands at around 70 years!!

[jkemble]

Well, actually, the only real big events I can think of that have had a more than 10 year lasting effect are:
1) Clark Kent and Lois Lane get married (after what, about 40 years? but, before that, and on the same storyline, Clark exposes to Lois that he is indeed Superman.
2) Peter Parker and Mary Jane Watson. almost directly mirrors the above, but still married almost 20 years later, still counts.
3) and Crisis on Infinate Earths, the first one, introduced Captain Atom, Blue Beetle and other Charton heros into the DCU, twenty years later they are still strong as ever. (except Night Shade, Peace Keeper and Judo Master, they didn't transition so well...)
Even if some of the other changes seem to be reverting to status quo...
4) Robin, Dick Greyson, becomes Nightwing. I think this is big because Dick Grayson has been Robin since the 40's, and in different mediums too. I really don't think he's going to be Robin again.

As for the future, who knows...
but I think that House of M really did de-power a whole bunch of charecters that will never been seen active again. I think some (like the Blob, c'mon, you know it's going to happen) will return over time to their past glory, others are already gone forever, consined to the back issue bins.
Can't say anything about Civil War, because it's still in the future,
...But I think the Storm / Black Panther marriage will be anuled and blamed on the House of M. There's a reason that Storm plays such a promenent role in the Black Panther House of M issue; I think that it will be explained as something along the lines of: "having spent some time in an alternate reality (HoM) and not knowing somewhat screwed and confused the two. false memories (Storm mini-series) and such. ...but we might have to wait for the next editor-in-chief for that.

anyway...
sorry 'bout the typos!

peace!

j.
www.jkemble.net

[Shiryu]

Are Storm and the Black Panther married ?

[jkemble]

Later this summer.
The story just began ( mostly in Black Panther )

[Teddy]

All the dead should be dead forever... like real life. Or You should add some title like : Marvel Infinities Crisis ! Copy

[balok]

dlw66 said:

Do you suppose that's because they think new readers don't know old plots? Do they not think they have any readers who are 40-ish?

That might be part of it but I think more is owed to the fact that with decades of continuity spread across, in some cases, dozens of books - it's impossible for an author to keep track. And in some cases the work of a previous author might leave an otherwise interesting character unwriteable, unless some element of a previous story is retconned.

Hard as it is to believe, I have heard that even if an author wanted to check all the continuity, he probably couldn't because the libraries are the corporate headquarters are in deplorable shape, with issues lost to theft. One would think they'd work a project to get all that stuff on CD before it entirely disappears for the sake of future authors. From there it would be tedious, but not technically challenging, to make a reference database that could even display scanned pages. Of course, all this costs money, and companies would rather pay shareholders than re-invest profits in today's model.