Post Civil War Fantastic Four Revealed!

[Doctor Doom]

There was discussion here a while back about the new FF. Well, I think it's safe to post a new thread now that it has been REVEALED! Big Spoilers obviously.


previews.diamondcomics.com/default.asp?t=1&m=1&c=23&s=213&ai=35682




THE THING!
HUMAN TORCH!
BLACK PANTHER!
STORM!

In the MORE than capable hands of McDuffie, and with ONE of the two core FF members IMO (Ben Grimm) remaining, I think FF could be great again for the first time since Waid left.

The single greatest threat to that?

Two words: Reginald Hudlin.

[The Night Phantom]

Thanks for the news, Doom!

Although we were 50% incorrect about which founding members would remain, it’s nice to see that much of our earlier analysis was not wrong. I still wouldn’t mind seeing Reed kicking butt with the bodacious babes of Heroes for Hire, though.

The only other time that two vacancies were filled, it was the same two founders who left (that time, Reed and Sue were replaced by Crystal and Ms. Marvel/Sharon Ventura). Reed and Sue left to work on their marriage—and their child-raising—but it was a proactive step, not a reaction to crisis. In terms of commercial drawing power, if Marvel is going to keep only two founding members on hand, it makes sense to hold on to the Thing and the Human Torch, as they are the most popular of the Four. (Maybe Sue would beat them out if she’d return to the first new costume she wore after Reed’s alleged death in the upper 300s—yowza!)

There’s also a nice symmetry in replacing one married couple with another. As for Reginald Hudlin…well, we’ll see. I notice that March’s Black Panther #26 is entitled “Two Plus Two”.

[The Night Phantom]

Here’s some FF–Avengers analysis I once posted:

nightphantom said:

This is the replacement roster (checked against OHOTMU: FF 2005):

• Crystal
  
• Medusa
  
• Power Man
  
• She-Hulk
  
• Ms. Marvel (Sharon Ventura, a.k.a. She-Thing)
  
• Ant-Man (Scott Lang)
  
• Namorita

She-Hulk was already an Avenger when she joined the FF; half of the remaining FF replacements became Avengers after their FF stints. In addition, three of the four founding FFers have also gone on to become Avengers. Over 63% of FFers have been Avengers!

Updating with the addition of the Black Panther and Storm:

This is the replacement roster:

• Crystal
  
• Medusa
  
• Power Man
  
• She-Hulk
  
• Ms. Marvel (Sharon Ventura, a.k.a. She-Thing)
  
• Ant-Man (Scott Lang)
  
• Namorita
  
• Black Panther
  
• Storm

She-Hulk and Black Panther were already Avengers when they joined the FF; nearly half of the remaining FF replacements (about 43%) became Avengers after their FF stints. In addition, three of the four founding FF’ers have also gone on to become Avengers. Over 61% of FF’ers have been Avengers!

[Doctor Doom]

May I express my abject terror that this means we will see Hudlin write Doom again? Or rather, the racist 2 dimensional caricature that PASSES for Doom in Hudlin's hands?

Ah well, McDuffie's Doom should make up for it.

[Shiryu]

This makes me wonder: what happens to Sue ?
I can see Reed leave after the CW mess, but why would Sue ? to make up with him, or is there something else going on ?

[Doctor Doom]

Reed and Sue apparantly leave to rebuild their failing marriage.

[The Night Phantom]

Diamond has altered the page Doom linked to to replace most of the text with “CLASSIFIED INFORMATION” and replace the image (probably a cover image) with a grid reminiscent of that appearing on the cover of Avengers #221 (this time: “pick four”?). The FF grid shows Ms. Marvel, the Punisher, Lyja(!), Ant-Man, Medusa, Mister Fantastic, Crystal, Luke Cage, Thundra, the Human Torch, Storm, Spider-Man, the Invisible Woman (well, OK, she’s not shown), Doctor Doom, Jessica Jones, the Thing, someone whose image and name I fail to recognize at the image’s small size, Wolverine, the Black Panther, and Cyclops.

Stories about the team line-up our Doom doppelgänger described appear on Newsarama and Comic Book Resources, complete with the earlier Michael Turner artwork.

[The Night Phantom]

This week’s New Joe Fridays includes (without comment) a graphic that includes the aforementioned possible-member-grid in an even stronger homage to the cover of Avengers #221, with a larger version also available:

(Ah! So it’s Tigra between the Thing and Wolverine!)

I’m not sure if the image is intended as a real cover for #544; as the URLs for the graphics suggest, it might be a variant cover.

[Shiryu]

If it's the real cover, it is a nice touch of continuity with the Avengers. Pity the spoiler on the web has... well, spoilered the new roster.

[ozbot]

If that IS the real cover, then it's a pretty sad cover design. I imagine it's a solicit copy. First of all, the layout in the title area is just too bland, and second of all, every single headshot is simply cut and pasted from existing stock art.

[The Night Phantom]

ozbot said:

If that IS the real cover, then it's a pretty sad cover design. I imagine it's a solicit copy. First of all, the layout in the title area is just too bland, and second of all, every single headshot is simply cut and pasted from existing stock art.

In my opinion, the nostalgia-homage value outweighs the criticisms you proffered. However, the question may be merely academic, as you said. This week I looked through a Marvel Previews which showed art very similar to the above image, and there was a disclaimer to the effect that it was not the cover art. I was sad. But I’ll find a way to soldier on.

[ozbot]

Well, nostalgia aside, I like to think there are SOME quality standards at Marvel. Then again, I was convinced that the image of a tattered Spider-Man holding Mary Jane's grave was just fan art, and lo and behold it's Kaare Andrew's Spider-Man: Reign.

[The Night Phantom]

ozbot said:

Well, nostalgia aside, I like to think there are SOME quality standards at Marvel.

Yes, standards like preferring boring covers over covers that whet the appetite…

[ozbot]

No, no, no. I meant that even IF they decided to do a "pick four" type of cover, that they would do one with better standards than the one used for solicit copy.

[jkemble]

RUMOR UPDATE:

from Wizard Civil War Room #39
www.wizarduniverse.com/magazine/wizard/003264599.cfm

Black Panther’s friend and former liaison to the U.S. government, Everett K. Ross, learns that the U.S. State Department believes the Panther, Storm, Namor and Doctor Doom are forming a new “Frightful Four” and that is why they’ve stationed troops in Niganda.

[The Night Phantom]

jkemble said:

RUMOR UPDATE:

from Wizard Civil War Room #39
www.wizarduniverse.com/magazine/wizard/003264599.cfm

Black Panther’s friend and former liaison to the U.S. government, Everett K. Ross, learns that the U.S. State Department believes the Panther, Storm, Namor and Doctor Doom are forming a new “Frightful Four” and that is why they’ve stationed troops in Niganda.

And I’m sure they can tell us where Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction are, too!

[jkemble]

Yeah, the books becoming really political.
Iraq, I mean, Niganda is of course Wakanda's neighboring nation that is in civil unrest (last seen in X-Men / Black Panther: Wild Kingdom)
But, isn't Panther asking for it? The Marvel US Governmet has enacted a Federal Law, and Black Panther backs the anti-goverment side, on American soil, with Wakanda's mega resources. doesn't that seem like an act of war?