A cleaning

[Shiryu]

I was just thinking (again) that there are 120+ members in the forum, and only a small bunch posting regularly, which is very odd considering everyone can read without registering.
Out of these, there are 27 users with 0 posts and 40 or so with one to 3.

I recently had a similar problem in my forum and I solved it mass deleting all the users who were at 0 (unless they had registered only recently) and those who had a very low number (1 to 10 posts in total) and hadn't posted for the last 6 months. That made the members number more close to the truth, which was appreciated by the other members. Members with more than 10 posts obviously were left intact.

I was thinking of doing the same here, but first I'd like to know what you think about it (and the final word would be Van's of course). The deleting would not mean ban, every deleted member could register again (and hopefully post) in the future.

Thoughts ?

[Yellowjacket]

Yeah, I think the way you propose it would do no harm at all. Maybe you could write these members an email when deleting them, telling them that they can come back anytime they like.

[dlw66]

I agree. While our small community is nice, it seems to be just that. Those who don't want to get involved in giving their opinions could certainly still come by as readers.

[The Night Phantom]

Shiryu, it’s hard to evaluate your solution, because I don’t see what the problem is. Since you just gave us some “true” numbers, why do we need the deletions? Is some other bad thing resulting from having registered members who don’t post?

I’m concerned that, even with YJ’s suggestion of an e-mailed explanation, the purge would be needlessly off-putting. It seems to tell the people who post infrequently that they’re not valued. If someone makes only 1–2 posts a year, and they’re good posts, I’d rather take that small amount of contribution from that person than have none at all. And if that person is forced to re-register in order to post again—well, he might not re-register.

If you do proceed with the plan to purge the rolls, I would suggest that you lengthen the time criterion, at least for those persons who have posted at least once. Infrequent posters might have situations that limit their access or time on a cyclical basis; for example, they might be likely to post only during summer vacations. So, I think they should have at least a year (I recommend two years) before facing elimination, under the theory that the cycle would repeat within a year or so.

[Shiryu]

It's not really a matter of bad things (they only make the database very sligtly heavier), but I think it gives a false impression of the board. It's like going to a town where you expect to find 50 stores, only to find out that 45 of them are closed. IMO it would be much better to have a closer to truth number of "active" users, especially since everyone can read without registering.

As for their reactions, best I can do is speculate. When I did it in my own forum, a few of them came back, registered again (apologizing and saying they had forgot all about it) and became fairly active, while others never popped in again (and were not missed really ^^).

I see your point regarding the cycles, but I don't think there are really people who can only post 1 or 2 months an year, then don't have access to the internet at all (it takes 5 mins to read an average post and other 5 to post) for 9 months or so and then come back to post, and 2 years looks a bit like an exaggerated lenght of time, considering the forum has only been open for about 1 year by now.

Alternatively, I could try to e-mail them a month or so in advance, explaining them what I'm about to do and asking whether they could come back around here. Those who do, or those who replay and say why they can't at the moment, would be left, while those who don't reply at all or say they don't mean to come back for whatever reason would be deleted.

However, this is all just my opinion. If everybody is happy with the way numbers are, I don't mind leaving things unchanged (and also I won't do anything before hearing the Boss opinion on this )

[dlw66]

I think a good way to guage activity on the site is how many people participate in the various polls that pop up. While I understand that not every question is relevant to all users, I do think that if only 10 people voted on the recent John Byrne poll and only 4 (!) on the Frank Miller poll, then we do not have much activity around here beyond the usual "suspects"...

[kingb]

Well, as one of the members who always reads but rarely posts, I'm not a big fan of the idea.

I don't post a lot because I don't have time. It doesn't mean that I won't EVER post. I just don't have the time to devote to it at this stage in my life.

Also, since - for the first time since the mid-70's - there is no current AVENGERS comic that I'm buying, I don't have anything new to say beyond the standard "I miss the AVENGERS".

[dlw66]

That's good enough for me. I certainly wasn't aware that we had so many people still in the posting-closet. I hope you find us entertaining, even obnoxious at times!

[jkemble]

I'm not really down with any kind of purge. people are different and have different reasons for doing what they do.
I say let them live on in (comic fandom) limbo.
...but, what do I know

[spiderwasp]

I'm not sure I care that there are members who don't post. When I joined, it was because I was enjoying reading the other posts and wanted to put my two cents worth in. It never occured to me to worry about how many members there actually were. This is, after all, a posting for comic books. It's not of some political or socialogical importance. If there is a purge, isn't there a record somewhere of how often people actually log in? If they are logging in but not posting, let them. If they have just dropped
the site altogether-that's different. They may as well be purged.
And yes, I do get the point that they can view without logging on so there is not reason to log on unless you might post but if they do log on, maybe they will post eventually. Either way, it's no big deal.

[Engage]

I don't think I really understand why this would be needed? Is this really an issue which warrants action? I don't see why its a problem to have a number of non-posting members. Isn't deleting accounts just a discouragement from those users becoming more involved?

[The Night Phantom]

I’ve given a karma point to Kingb for speaking up for the “silent majority”.

There may be a lot of people in his situation. Aside from time and access issues, there’s also the matter that not everyone wants to post all the time. This may be hard to believe—with this post being my 478th in less than seven months—but I actually try to be selective in my posting. Although I engage in some strictly phatic communication here (such as this questionable use of bandwidth), generally I try to focus on contributing information or viewpoints or else asking questions. If I don’t have anything articulate to say, or if I feel it’s already being put forth adequately by others, I don’t post. Doug’s notion about polls revealing active membership isn’t necessarily true. I haven’t voted in his Frank Miller poll simply because I don’t have strong feelings on that issue. On the other hand, I did vote in his John Byrne poll…but I didn’t post about my choice, because I didn’t feel I had anything worth saying. (I might change my mind about that. Note: I have posted in that thread, but not about my choice.) Also, the estimate of about 5 minutes to post might not be very accurate either. I think I generally take longer. This is an extreme exception, but the other day I actually took well over three hours to compose a single post. I can well understand why some people might seldom speak up!

Shiryu, if statistics are desired, may I suggest you occasionally use your powers to come up with some facts and figures about board usage and post them for our edification?

[dlw66]

True about polls being interesting/not interesting to our posters. However, my hunch is that with tpb's, the ROMs, et al. virtually anything in comicdom is accessible. One can pretty easily form an opinion.

I think the points made recently are well taken. My deal is that I just enjoy the community and have a hard time seeing how folks can resist entering the fray on some of our issues.

Maybe we're just boring...

[The Night Phantom]

dlw66 said:

True about polls being interesting/not interesting to our posters. However, my hunch is that with tpb's, the ROMs, et al. virtually anything in comicdom is accessible. One can pretty easily form an opinion.

You seem to be assuming:

1) People are interested in reading the material in question in the first place.
2) They have the time or other resources (money…) to do so.
3) They always form definite opinions they wish to express.

I don’t believe there are sufficient grounds to believe that any of those premises are universal.

[Shiryu]

Uehi, at least this topic had an effect and we've got someone from the silent majority joining the noisy minority ;D

Unfortunately the board doesn't keep a log of the log-ins, so if someone logs in daily and never posts, I wouldn't be able to distinguish him from someone who's long gone. Still, in a forum which is about 11 months old, people who have not posted for more than 6 seem (IMO) unlikely to post again any time soon.

As for the pools, I disagree with not having much to say about one. For example, if you don't have a strong opinion on Miller's work or if he is not one of your favorites, you can still write so and tell us why. This would not be making meaningless posts but just voicing an opinion or the reasons for a lack of it. And even if someone really has nothing to write, you can still vote, which literally takes the time of a click. As for the Avengers not quite being the Avengers today, that's why we have a "classic Avengers" section

In the end, as you can see, I'm all for posting. I think it is what makes a community (which is what a forum basically is) going, and is a sign of respect towards those who actually open new threads and pools and post constantly (and this doesn't mean we do nothing all day, ). If everyone was just reading, there would be no board at all.

This being said, it looks like the majority so far (5 out of 134 ) is against the cleaning, so, unless more people speak up towards it, there won't be any.

PS, yep, 5 minutes probably is an underestimation of the average posting time, especially for certain threads

[The Night Phantom]

shiryu said:

As for the pools, I disagree with not having much to say about one. For example, if you don't have a strong opinion on Miller's work or if he is not one of your favorites, you can still write so and tell us why. This would not be making meaningless posts but just voicing an opinion or the reasons for a lack of it. And even if someone really has nothing to write, you can still vote, which literally takes the time of a click.

But, Shiryu, you’re talking about speaking up when one lacks reason to speak up. Why would someone want to do that? (And why would someone want to read it? “Hi, I haven’t read any of the above, but I kind-of like the title of the second item…”) And, real-world politics aside, why should a person vote for a choice he doesn’t believe in? We’re not machines.

[dlw66]

I guess my original thought when kingb spoke up was that to come around here semi-regularly and not participate on the posting side (understanding that participation does take place on the reading side) somewhat constitutes eavesdropping. If it's important enough to keep stopping by, get involved!

As for the time of the average post, I admire those of you who do take the time to write the longer, generally well-thought posts (Phantom, I was teasing you in another thread for your research and attention to detail in your replies -- that is what makes you one of our more valued members IMO). However, as a school teacher, I happen by my computer sometimes only fleetingly throughout the day. However, you'll notice I do post often. For what I have to say, which is generally a quick reaction to what has come before, it takes literally a matter of seconds. When I am home in the evening or on my lunch break, I might make a longer post.

All those readers should consider becoming more involved. You do have SOME opinions that could be shared.

[steed]

I don't see any reason for a cleaning. I don't always post to topics that interest me because someone else has already said what I would by the time I read the thread. Night Phantom has pretty much covered anything I would have said about this thread.

If cleaning the board doesn't help, then why do it at the risk of offending current members?

[dlw66]

Let's work under the assumption that cleaning is no longer an option. I am curious to see just how many of our 132 members are closet regulars. I will post an open thread on this General board and we'll see if we can get some people to "check-in".

Forgive me if it's "bait" that attracts our erstwhile posters...

Modification here: Actually, I changed the title of the new thread from "Avengers #1 autographed by Stan Lee", which was certainly attention-grabbing yet definitely false advertising, to the more truthful yet still alarming "Hey, slacker!". Doom's subversive machinations of a few months ago just brought my honesty to the fore ;D

[dlw66]

The thread mentioned above is being removed. Sorry for any undue discomfort I may have caused. As far as I am concerned, to each his own. Case closed.

[Shiryu]

Feels like I missed something
Anyway I deleted the rest of that topic.

But, Shiryu, you’re talking about speaking up when one lacks reason to speak up. Why would someone want to do that? (And why would someone want to read it? “Hi, I haven’t read any of the above, but I kind-of like the title of the second item…”) And, real-world politics aside, why should a person vote for a choice he doesn’t believe in? We’re not machines

The "real world politics aside" bit is wonderful ! ;D
It's hard to explain... the way I usually see it (which may or may not be the right one) is that there is always something to say on a topic. Imagine I meet you in the streets and ask "hey, what do you think of Miller's work ?". Hopefully you wouldn't just stay silent and walk away, but you would come up with an opinion or a comment, so you may simply post what you would say.

PS, don't take this as a "I-have-to-post-no-matter-what", this is just my rationale for forums

[steed]

Howabout a thread where we stand up and be counted. I'm curious to how many of us there really is.

[Shiryu]

I think that's what Doug tried to do, and was not quite welcome (why I have no clue :. Still, unless someone publicly doesn't want it, I'm up for it

[kingb]

I'm not really sure how reading a public message board without posting is eavesdropping. Reading someone else's e-mail is eavesdropping.

The reason that a stand up and be counted thread doesn't work is because not everyone reads every thread. Also, not everyone reads every day or every week.

I happen to have been here a few times this week, but often I'll go weeks without visiting. Also, until this week, I don't think I'd read anything under the General board since the first time I ever visited the site.

Long story short: I'm not sure what the issue is.

[The Night Phantom]

steed said:

Howabout a thread where we stand up and be counted. I'm curious to how many of us there really is.

shiryu said:

I think that's what Doug tried to do, and was not quite welcome (why I have no clue :.

I replied with a post saying that I felt that Doug had (unintentionally) used a wording that might drive off the very people he was reaching out to. But I didn’t call his attempt unwelcome; in fact, I offered to facilitate. If he got other feedback, I don’t know.

To facilitate responses by people who are active but don’t wish to make posts for some reason, why not a poll (e.g., “I post: * Never * Seldom * Occasionally * Often * Other”)? Of course, you could also encourage respondents to additionally post a reply.

shiryu said:

It's hard to explain... the way I usually see it (which may or may not be the right one) is that there is always something to say on a topic. Imagine I meet you in the streets and ask "hey, what do you think of Miller's work ?". Hopefully you wouldn't just stay silent and walk away, but you would come up with an opinion or a comment, so you may simply post what you would say.

Your way is fine for people with the so-called gift of gab, but not everyone has that. If you asked me that question, I wouldn’t just ignore you and leave (if I recognized you…), but I might say something like, “I don’t have an opinion”. On the forum, a general question doesn’t ask me something pointblank and therefore doesn’t effect the same social context, and I feel quite free to remain silent when I feel I have nothing of interest to offer.

[Shiryu]

Well, what can I say ? if this is the way you like it, be my guest (after all, I do something like that with other issues like politics).

As for the poll, it could easily be done, but then I would really be wondering why someone who doesn't post for privacy issues registered in first place.
Anyway, I'll see if we can turn Steed's topic in a poll or if a new topic is needed.

[The Night Phantom]

shiryu said:

As for the poll, it could easily be done, but then I would really be wondering why someone who doesn't post for privacy issues registered in first place.

Privacy might have nothing to do with it. Reasons to register include:

• the ability to post (which may not have been exercised yet or which may be exercised infrequently)
  
• the ability to participate in polls
  
• the board’s automatic flagging of posts the board member hasn’t read yet
  
• the ability to send and receive private messages

[Shiryu]

Reason #3 is a very good one, helps to keep track of things. Still, to me it feels a bit like going to a restaurant only to watch other people eat, but I guess everyone is different.