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Sept 21, 2006 17:25:39 GMT -5
Post by Shiryu on Sept 21, 2006 17:25:39 GMT -5
Reading another thread on CW, I just remembered old events. What's your favorite Avengers related Marvel event ever (so far of course) ? We have had Secret Wars I and II, Atlantis Attacks, Inferno, Evolutionary War, Onslaught, House of M and Civil War (forgetting any ?)
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Sept 21, 2006 21:35:26 GMT -5
Post by Doctor Bong on Sept 21, 2006 21:35:26 GMT -5
For me, Secret Wars I (even if it didn't include my favorite Marvel character, the original Iron Man). But I find the older I get the less I like them, as I would cite as the ones I liked least (it's a tie) Avengers Disassembled & Civil War. Or perhaps it has nothing to do with my age & everything to do with the creative choices of the ones who orchestrated them...
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Sept 21, 2006 22:32:28 GMT -5
Post by dlw66 on Sept 21, 2006 22:32:28 GMT -5
None of the above. I don't like the big crossovers.
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Sept 22, 2006 9:02:57 GMT -5
Post by thew40 on Sept 22, 2006 9:02:57 GMT -5
I LOVE big crossovers.
If we're talking overall, line-wide crossovers, it's hard to say. I havent been around as long as some of you gents. Granted, I started reading 1992, but I hear some of you talk about being around in the 60's and 70's and that makes my comic book reading career seem rather short. But anyways . . .
It's hard for me to decide. Even though I wasn't around for it, Secret Wars is pretty cool, though a little silly at times (Magneto/Wasp?), it is a very epic adventure and has a lot of great character moments. Secret Wars 2 was silly and stupid.
Infinity Gauntlet was cool and among my favorites. The scene where Cap stands up to Thanos is one of my favorite moments in all of comic history.
Inferno is fairly "meh," on my radar. I'm more of an X-Men guy and since this story spiraled out of the X-Men, I've read it once or twice. I'm not a big fan of how the whole Jean/Maddie thing was handled, and I'm just not a fan of magic and Mutants mixing.
Maximum Security was kinda neat, but the art was awful. The story had a cool concept, but it seemed to just kinda fall apart at the end.
I mentioned in another thread that Onslaught was my first line-wide crossover, back in '96. Again, much like Inferno, it spiraled out of the X-Men. It's been a good ten years since I first read it, but there's a big part of me that just loves this story. It's kind of like the "Independence Day" of crossovers. It's big, it's flashy, it's cool . . . but don't think about it too hard or it'll stop making sense. For all it's flaws, though, there are some great moments.
Cable, Invisible Woman, and Apocalypse in the psi-storm.
When Thor busts through Onslaught's armor - that made me a huge Thor fan. "I say thee NAY!"
The Avengers, the Fantastic Four, the Inhumans, Hulk, and a bunch of others showing up to save the X-Men's asses.
Even the heroes sacriface, while it led to the gut-wrenchingly bad "Heroes Reborn," was well handled.
House of M is kinda the opposite of Onslaught and Inferno, as it spiraled out of Avengers and became an X-Men story. I know a lot of people don't care for it here, but I loved House of M. I thought it was a very epic story, with the tie-ins making up for the flaws of the limited series, adding texture to this newly formed world. It actually had reprecussions for the actual Marvel Universe, despite being set mostly in a quasi-alternate reality. I'm not sure where it ranks overall, but I really liked it.
Civil War is pretty amazing right now. I think it's probably top of the list . . . for the moment. There's still five months to go until it's all over and then (after I sit down and read the whole d**n thing in the reading order I've been setting up), I'll make the decision.
So, for now, I'd say my ranking goes:
1) Secret Wars 2) Infinity Gauntlet 3) House of M 4) Onslaught 5) Maximum Security 6) Inferno
. . . and I'm waiting until Civil War is over to add that to my list.
~W~
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Sept 22, 2006 9:29:18 GMT -5
Post by dlw66 on Sept 22, 2006 9:29:18 GMT -5
I guess I should elaborate, before the Phantom calls me out for a short answer . W, like you mentioned, "back in the day" we had stories of a cosmic scale, but you only had to buy 1-2 titles to really get it. "The Celestial Madonna" was contained within the Avengers and two issues of Giant-Size Avengers. There was a neat crossover time-travel story that included the FF and Marvel's WWII heroes that ran in an FF annual and concluded in a Marvel Two-In-One annual. Of course the Avengers/Defenders War ran for 3 months alternating in each book. We weren't forced to buy, buy, buy to read a story, and I firmly believe that because of the smaller focus the stories were much more cohesive as was obviously the artwork. Today (really, past 20 years) with so many cooks in the kitchen that fluidity often goes by the wayside. My opinion...
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Sept 22, 2006 9:53:57 GMT -5
Post by Tana Nile on Sept 22, 2006 9:53:57 GMT -5
I hear ya dlw66. My intro to comics was during the Kree-Skrull war, which was an absolute epic that stayed entirely in the Avengers. Although I didn't understand all of the story back then (I had only started reading!) the fantastic Neal Adams art captivated me (not to mention very solid work by my all-time favorite Avengers artist, John Buscema). You could tell something huge was happening, but it didn't have to be spread over 12 different titles to bring a sense of awe.
That being said, I can enjoy a multi-title epic IF it makes sense for it to wind through so many books. Unfortunately most of the time it just seems like a crass marketing ploy.
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Sept 22, 2006 10:15:47 GMT -5
Post by Shiryu on Sept 22, 2006 10:15:47 GMT -5
Well spot, Thew. I had forgotten all the Infinity Crossovers: Infinity Gauntlet, Infinity War, Infinity Crusade, but they are all quite good, especially the first one (more in general, I like Jim Starlin's work).
My favorite so far however is the first Secret Wars, light as it was, it was good fun. The second however was disappointing.
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Sept 22, 2006 17:26:02 GMT -5
Post by The Night Phantom on Sept 22, 2006 17:26:02 GMT -5
I guess I should elaborate, before the Phantom calls me out for a short answer . BWA HA HA HA HA!!! My shadows precede me! Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars was one of the first Marvel Universe comics I read, and it remains a favorite. Unlike other candidates Shiryu’s enumerated, it’s self-contained, not disrupting any ongoing series with tie-in chapters. (It is prefigured in several ongoings, and sequelae occur in several ongoings—but that’s continuity for you.) It showcases a variety of heroes and villains, sometimes in unusual team-ups or confrontations. It has a philosophical streak. And it’s got that weird alien setting. Woo hoo! For me, then still a Marvel neophyte, Secret Wars II served as introduction to several of Marvel’s series. The core LS is often very philosophically oriented. Unfortunately, the artwork is disappointing, and the crossovers too often feel contrived (though there are some good ones— FF #285 comes to mind). I don’t have much good to say about further multi-title-spanning events. Occasionally there are some good issues among them (I liked some of the “shades” from Infinity War, like the Thing doppelgänger in FF #367 who berated Ben for acting more ignorant than he really is), but overall the events tend to underwhelm.
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jkemble
Reservist Avenger
the Cosmic Frog
Posts: 243
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Sept 22, 2006 19:55:40 GMT -5
Post by jkemble on Sept 22, 2006 19:55:40 GMT -5
I can't believe you guys aren't reading BEYOND! it is Secret Wars 2000-style.
1) I loved Acts of Vengence: Vision is Dismantled, HydroBase Sunck, the Super Human Registration Act, and of course every super-villian in the book taking on different super heroes! arguebly Loki's most ambitious plan to date. and for me the capper is when Magneto turns on the Red Skull!
2) Also I really dug (hate the name) Operation: Galactic Storm, that was a great time to be an Avenger's fan, but it sure turned into a crapfest after that. My favorite cross-overs were WC Avengers, Wonder Man and Quasar, but I read all the cross-over issues (Iron Man was pretty good too!)
3) There was one along time ago that didn't really have a name, but but it was about Magneto and the twins, maybe it was shortly after he escaped from the Stranger (or around that time) It was only three issues, two Avengers one X-Men? or maybe the other way around. Anyone? I think it was Roy Thomas. Or the Original Avengers / Defenders wars. Now that was a fun read!
1) and it seems that I've read that somewhere in that same cross-over, or the Celestial Madonna saga Steve Engleheart, who was writing the Justice League of America placed the action of both books in the same city, at the same time, Halloween Night. later he admitted to it and said that there were other incidents like this that he and other writters used to do, kinda inside-behind-the-scenes stuff. Stuff today we call Easter Eggs and DVD Extras. anyone else know any other "secret cross-overs"?
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jkemble
Reservist Avenger
the Cosmic Frog
Posts: 243
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Sept 22, 2006 19:56:46 GMT -5
Post by jkemble on Sept 22, 2006 19:56:46 GMT -5
but being an X-Head Inferno is my all time fav!
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Sept 22, 2006 20:09:03 GMT -5
Post by The Night Phantom on Sept 22, 2006 20:09:03 GMT -5
I can't believe you guys aren't reading BEYOND! Indeed you shouldn’t believe it, for I am.
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Sept 22, 2006 22:01:10 GMT -5
Post by thew40 on Sept 22, 2006 22:01:10 GMT -5
This crossover really confuses me. What issues had the main storyline running through it? I have some of the Avengers West Coast and Uncanny X-Men issues, but where did the Magneto/Red Skull thing happen? How did it tie into whatever else he was doing then (like hanging out with Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch in AWC) Great story! A true classic, if you ask me. It's one of my favorite stories. I just recently read these issues for the first time (Avengers # 47-49, The Uncanny X-Men # 43-45, Avengers # 53), and it was an amazing saga. For some reason, and I know people will groan when I say it, this story really (for me) laid down the foundation of all the X-Men/Avengers crossovers to come, esspecially the ones involving Magneto (X-Men vs. Avengers, Bloodties, Onslaught, and House of M). Great stuff. My only wish is that it had been established that Magneto was their father in this story. It would have made it better that it already was. Funny you should mention it, comicbookresources.com just listed a "secret crossover" between DC's Freedom Fighters and Marvel's Invaders: goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2006/09/21/comic-book-urban-legends-revealed-69/Scroll down a bit. ~W~
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jkemble
Reservist Avenger
the Cosmic Frog
Posts: 243
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Sept 23, 2006 16:05:51 GMT -5
Post by jkemble on Sept 23, 2006 16:05:51 GMT -5
This crossover really confuses me. What issues had the main storyline running through it? I have some of the Avengers West Coast and Uncanny X-Men issues, but where did the Magneto/Red Skull thing happen? How did it tie into whatever else he was doing then (like hanging out with Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch in AWC) ~W~ yeah, AoV wasn't really the tradional event like we know now. There was no real Acts of Vengence mini-series like with Civil War, instead the bulk of the action was in titles that had a banner that ran all the was acrost the top, while cross-over issues had the AoV logo in the corner. The main issues were mostly Avengers and AWC, but also Captain America #367,where Mags took on Reddy, believe me, Magneto made him pay for being a Nazi, Iron Man and Thor, which introduced the New Warriors. a lot of other fun events like: Break-Out at the Vault! Villians are roaming the streets... Spidey gets the Captain Universe Uni-Power and goes all cosmic on a giant, three headed "tri-Sentinal" meanwhile, elsewhere, in the cross-over event, The Fantastic Four go to congress to fight against the Super-Human Registration Act, and Apocolypse crashes the party. ...and who can forget Power Pack versus Typhoid Mary? or Namor v.s. Cap? DD v.s Ultron? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_Vengeance
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Sept 23, 2006 16:12:36 GMT -5
Post by thew40 on Sept 23, 2006 16:12:36 GMT -5
This crossover really confuses me. What issues had the main storyline running through it? I have some of the Avengers West Coast and Uncanny X-Men issues, but where did the Magneto/Red Skull thing happen? How did it tie into whatever else he was doing then (like hanging out with Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch in AWC) ~W~ yeah, AoV wasn't really the tradional event like we know now. There was no real Acts of Vengence mini-series like with Civil War, instead the bulk of the action was in titles that had a banner that ran all the was acrost the top, while cross-over issues had the AoV logo in the corner. The main issues were mostly Avengers and AWC, but also Captain America #367,where Mags took on Reddy, believe me, Magneto made him pay for being a Nazi, Iron Man and Thor, which introduced the New Warriors. a lot of other fun events like: Break-Out at the Vault! Villians are roaming the streets... Spidey gets the Captain Universe Uni-Power and goes all cosmic on a giant, three headed "tri-Sentinal" meanwhile, elsewhere, in the cross-over event, The Fantastic Four go to congress to fight against the Super-Human Registration Act, and Apocolypse crashes the party. ...and who can forget Power Pack versus Typhoid Mary? or Namor v.s. Cap? DD v.s Ultron? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acts_of_VengeanceWell, I know what I'm looking for at the next comic convention. ~W~
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