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Post by goldenfist on Dec 29, 2007 10:25:17 GMT -5
NEW AVENGERS #39 Written by BRIAN MICHAEL BENDIS Art and Cover by DAVID MACK The Secret Invasion is here! Award-winning artist David Mack brings his amazing talent to NEW AVENGERS to illustrate a major story in the life of Echo! Have the Skrulls infiltrated the Avengers? Is Maya Lopez the only one with proof? Will she live to tell the tale? All this and a major Avengers hook up! media.comics.ign.com/articles/842/842051/img_5144583.html
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Post by woodside on Dec 29, 2007 19:43:36 GMT -5
David Mack is a fantastic artist, so I'm really looking forward to this story.
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Post by starfoxxx on Jan 7, 2008 16:27:16 GMT -5
Hopefully this issue has something to do with the AVENGERS.
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Post by sharkar on Jan 7, 2008 20:39:18 GMT -5
Hopefully this issue has something to do with the AVENGERS. LOL...you get an exalt for that, Starfoxxx. ;D
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Post by Doctor Doom on Jan 8, 2008 11:26:18 GMT -5
I think having lines is pretty much "a major story in the life of Echo" thus far. It's certainly more than she's ever really gotten before.
Seriously, does anyone understand why she is there at all? Even being RONIN had more point for her.
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Post by Tana Nile on Jan 8, 2008 16:02:57 GMT -5
I'm no longer reading this book, but I couldn't help but notice that she looks like that Brazillian punk supermodel (talk about a contradiction of terms!) that appeared as Arclight in X-Men 3.
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Post by Black Knight on Jan 8, 2008 16:51:28 GMT -5
I have never understood why Echo is in this book. I guess you have to chalk it up to Bendis likes the charater there for she is going to be shoe horned into the book.
Of course I still don't understand what Wolverine is doing on the team aside from being a cash cow. Oh well....
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Post by goldenfist on Jan 10, 2008 10:34:35 GMT -5
The Wasp said the same thing in Giant Size Avengers Black Knigh t, She wondered what were Iron Man and Cap thinking when the y let Wolverine on the team.
Iron Man thought that having Wolverine on the Avengers would be a good idea but Cap thought that Wolverine would say no but Wolverine is still on the team.
Bendis must've thought up the idea for Echo to join the NA and she is the ex-girlfriend of Daredevil why not put her on the team as Ronin, Black Widow is a member of the Mighty Avengers and is also an ex-girlfriend of Daredevil so we have to two Avengers teams that have ex-girlfriends of Daredevil.
Just be glad that Daredevil didn't join since he turned down the offer from Cap twice.
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Post by Black Knight on Jan 10, 2008 13:25:46 GMT -5
Yea I know how marvel shoehorned Wolverine into the book. Still just a cash cow really. As for the ex-girlfriend thing. How many straws would like to grasp at.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Jan 10, 2008 16:13:14 GMT -5
I have never understood why Echo is in this book. I guess you have to chalk it up to Bendis likes the charater there for she is going to be shoe horned into the book. This is what I don't get. Bendis seems to like the character from interviews... but you can't tell. It's not like Spider-Man or Daredevil or above all Luke Cage where he uses them constantly, ridiculously, shoving them in everywhere he can in major places, clearly displaying that he loves them. Echo is just.... there. Naa, I still see that. I disagree with it, but I see why- to "do the things they can't." It's fair enough reasoning, like the rationale behind X-Force.
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Post by Black Knight on Jan 10, 2008 16:27:15 GMT -5
I have never understood why Echo is in this book. I guess you have to chalk it up to Bendis likes the charater there for she is going to be shoe horned into the book. This is what I don't get. Bendis seems to like the character from interviews... but you can't tell. It's not like Spider-Man or Daredevil or above all Luke Cage where he uses them constantly, ridiculously, shoving them in everywhere he can in major places, clearly displaying that he loves them. Echo is just.... there. Naa, I still see that. I disagree with it, but I see why- to "do the things they can't." It's fair enough reasoning, like the rationale behind X-Force. Yea echo is just there, and it makes no sense. OH well, no surprise to me with Bendis writing. These are the Avengers then don't need to do "the things the can't". Meaning they don't need to kill or torture, nor should they. That explination was bad the first time.
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Post by bobc on Feb 11, 2008 17:20:13 GMT -5
Echo is there because Brian Michael Bendis, whose head has swelled to the point where it resembles a small, dead planet, decided that he didn't care about the history of any of Marvels characters. If he did care, he'd understand that Echo doesn't belong here. I have a good friend who worked on a video game project with Marvel, so he got to meet Bendis and other Marvel creators. He told me that Bendis was quite clear that he didn't give a rat's azz about these characters' histories. From the start, he wanted the Avengers to be the Justice League in the sense that the team should just be whoever Marvel's biggest characters are/were. What burns me about all this is how people carry as if the sales of The New Avengers are a testament to Benids' incredible talent, when all it is is a crass, tacky marketing ploy. The Avengers were ALWAYS in the top 10 of Comics sales, so stacking that title with Spiderman, Wolverine, etc just increased what was already good, sales wise.
I believe that ten years from now, Bendis will be the next Rob Liefield. Oy.
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Post by Tana Nile on Feb 11, 2008 17:22:49 GMT -5
Echo is there because Brian Michael Bendis, whose head has swelled to the point where it resembles a small, dead planet, decided that he didn't care about the history of any of Marvels characters. If he did care, he'd understand that Echo doesn't belong here. I have a good friend who worked on a video game project with Marvel, so he got to meet Bendis and other Marvel creators. He told me that Bendis was quite clear that he didn't give a rat's azz about these characters' histories. From the start, he wanted the Avengers to be the Justice League in the sense that the team should just be whoever Marvel's biggest characters are/were. What burns me about all this is how people carry as if the sales of The New Avengers are a testament to Benids' incredible talent, when all it is is a crass, tacky marketing ploy. The Avengers were ALWAYS in the top 10 of Comics sales, so stacking that title with Spiderman, Wolverine, etc just increased what was already good, sales wise. I believe that ten years from now, Bendis will be the next Rob Liefield. Oy. This deserves my thanks and an exalt, sir.
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Post by goldenfist on Feb 11, 2008 23:35:30 GMT -5
I was told fom a comic book store owner that the reason why Wolverine is on the NA is because to give the team credabilty.
And I'm guessing no belives that at all.
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Post by von Bek on Feb 12, 2008 14:56:58 GMT -5
Echo is there because Brian Michael Bendis, whose head has swelled to the point where it resembles a small, dead planet, decided that he didn't care about the history of any of Marvels characters. LOL Truer words were never spoken! From the start, he wanted the Avengers to be the Justice League in the sense that the team should just be whoever Marvel's biggest characters are/were. I heard that this was actually Mark Millar´s idea. If it was Bendis' it´s even sillier because does BENDIS! really thinks Echo, Iron Fist or frikking Luke Cage are among Marvel´s biggest characters?
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Post by bobc on Feb 12, 2008 15:40:48 GMT -5
Well I don't know about it being Mark Millar's idea originally--I suppose that's possible--but it seems a little far-fetched since MM obviously knows a ton about Marvel's characters. I really can't see him recommending the destruction of the identity of The Avengers. Even while completely updating and skewering the Avengers in the Ultimates, the core of that group was still very much there. I would imagine that this whole idea was about squeezing as much money out of the Avengers name as possible, quality be damned. This reminds me of when the X-Men got really popular and suddenly there were 10,000 X-Men books on the stands--which made die-hard X-Men fans like myself leave in droves. It's just hard to care when they drive something good into the ground. These days if I even see Wolverine on a cover, I probably won't buy the book. Look, I am not against making money or big sales, but at some point you cross a line.
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Post by von Bek on Feb 12, 2008 16:01:00 GMT -5
Some interesting Mark Millar´s opinions about New avengers and The Ultimates: TALKIN' 'BOUT MY GENERATION Imagine being a soldier during World War II and suddenly finding yourself thawing out of a block of ice some decades later into this world. A world where countries are still bullying others, wars are still being waged, but intentions are shrouded in smoke and mirrors. Some people might opt to be frozen back into a block and try their luck at another sixty years later. Millar's follow-up to The Authority had to be something big. After all, he was in the shadow of Warren Ellis' creation. So in 2003, what Millar helped create was Marvel's Ultimate Universe and with it, came the Ultimates, a modern look at the Avengers run by this country's current administration, with global threats familiar to our own. We experienced the Ultimates through Captain America, a man caught outside of his era, dealing with the world with the innocence of a simpler life, eventually realizing that despite all the good he had done in the world, it hasn't changed for the better. With the artist extraordinaire, Bryan Hitch, The Ultimates became the rage of 2003 and the second volume has just debuted in the beginning of December and besides all of the action lies something deeper. EE: Comics used to be used for propaganda especially in the 1940's-1960's, outside of the entertainment value, it gave artists the opportunity to express themselves. Lately, all forms of media seems to be succumbing to big business. Do you find it sad that the only way to make politically driven stories are in independent or self-published books? MM: That's not the case. Ultimates 2 is probably the most political book on the stands right now. Likewise, Red Son was a very obvious comment on pre-emptive strikes and hyper-powered countries taking over the world. If anything, I think the indie books shy away from this stuff and focus on the individual more than the socio-political. EE: Do you have any thoughts of or read Art Spiegelman and his latest work, In The Shadow of No Towers, The Red Star, or the works of Brian Wood or Ted Rall and what they are trying to say with their work? MM: Well, it's interesting that you picked these guys because Spiegelman tends to do graphic novels very, very sporadically and Wood and Rall are the exceptions rather than the rule of indie books. I honestly think the mainstream is much more political and much more interesting than the indie scene at the moment. There's a few good books, but either my interests just lie in the mainstream (which, by nature, most people do) or all the good indie people like Bendis and so on just got snapped up for Spider-Man or whatever. There's a funny snobbery from people as regards the worthiness of indie books compared to mainstream books and it's the same in cinema. A forty eight page graphic novel about what it's like to work in a convenience store is no weightier than a forty-eight page graphic novel about what it's like to be bitten by a radioactive spider. When I was first getting 'serious' about comics, I actually used to pretend to prefer indie stuff to the mainstream and did this with movies and music too, all the while watching flicks like Jaws and playing my ELO albums. The nice thing about hitting your thirties is realizing it's often all pose and 90% of indie books are as nuts as 90% of mainstream books. There's good and bad on both sides and no inner-dignity to not selling well. Art has impressed me since the day I read Maus as a sixteen year old schoolboy and he and political cartoonist Steve Bell are the guys who really blow me away. EE: You mentioned Ultimates 2, there are some readers including myself who initially saw the Ultimates as how the Avengers should be done today because of all of years of lackluster stories. The Ultimates book was welcomed and it brought relevance back to the featured characters. After "Disassembled" the Avengers books in the main continuity appear solid, what relevance do the Ultimates have now? Outside of maintaining a presence within the Ultimate Universe, what do the Ultimates offer to readers that the Avengers doesn't already provide? And don't say a chance to see Samuel L. Jackson as Fury… MM: The books couldn't be more different. The idea behind The Avengers is that the Marvel Universe's biggest players all get together and fight all the biggest supervillains they can't find individually whereas Ultimates 2 is an exploration of what happens when a bunch of ordinary people are turned into super-soldiers and being groomed to fight the real-life war on terror. One is a superhero book on every level and the other doesn't feature a single super- villain. What's nice is that the casts are entirely different now too. Ultimates 2 just sticks to that classic Avengers cast so it's really amusing to me to see all the purists who used to think Hitch and I were the antichrist saying we're doing the classic Avengers book now. Oh, how things have changed. It's all good fun, though, and I dig both books. EE: Issue #1 of Ultimates 2 reminded me what it could be like if President Bush did have the Ultimates in his back pocket. Americans have already formed their divided opinions of the war, with Tony Blair standing next to Bush, how do the British, or probably easier for you to answer, how do you view the world climate? And will the past election be a part of Ultimates 2? MM: The worry in Ultimates 2, as the heroes talk among themselves, is that the whole thing has been a scam. They've been created to fight this pre-emptive war across the Middle East, according to Thor, and I'm using them as an allegory for the American people. My feeling is that over the next year some kind of incident will happen or be arranged that prompts a nationwide call for the draft and pre-emptive strikes on Syria, North Korea, Iran and all the world hot spots. This isn't such a conspiracy theory here in Europe. Many mainstream politicians are very skeptical of what happening and worried about even the short-term consequences for the world. In the name of oil, this administration is stirring up a hornet's nest and, even though I'm a huge optimist, I think we're heading for some kind of Armageddon. I just can't see a good way out of this situation and, after decades of seeing Britain try to deal with the IRA, I know you don't defeat terrorists by killing their families. My own belief is that there'll be a couple of nuclear attacks in the States, the multinationals will move elsewhere, the American economy will completely collapse and make the 30s look like the 80s and the Middle East will be occupied by drafted teenagers from your home town. But don't get me started. I hope I'm completely and utterly wrong. I suspect we turned a corner on November 3rd and America just has to live with the consequences of that now. from this interview: www.popcultureshock.com/features.php?id=874
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Post by saldawyz on Feb 25, 2008 17:11:15 GMT -5
From the start, he wanted the Avengers to be the Justice League in the sense that the team should just be whoever Marvel's biggest characters are/were....Oy. Dumb. If thats what he wanted, he should've just called Kurt Busiek, gave him all his Avenger money, and told him to write it. The Avengers were already the baddest, most powerful heroes. Thor Cap Iron Man Wonder Man Vision Scarlet Witch And whomever else was needed. From even more extra to the Nth degree power in the Universal Guardian, Quasar, to subtle infiltration (Ant-Man). And Busiek was able to churn out interesting story after interesting story w/o killing or cussing or going out of character. And Perez, one of the most detail oriented penciler ever, was able to keep on a monthly schedule (a major complaint point here, I've noticed). And thats one of my main points. Why is Ares here? Instead of Thor or Herc? Or even Thor-Girl (whose name should be Tova [beautiful Thor])? Was that necessary? Ares has been tooled by Herc and Thor before, I beleive. He wants the best and most powerful? Why is Wasp here? I know she makes a great Avenger, but that isn't what we're talking about, is it? They should all be Earth shatteringly powerful, right? But, they're not. Although, from what I've been gleaning, Bedis seems to be consistently inconsistent.
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Post by bobc on Feb 25, 2008 18:22:04 GMT -5
Not the most powerful, the biggest SELLING. Basically any Marvel character who has been in a movie is fair game. This whole thing was/is about maximum profit. New Avenger is a sales tool with zero attention to any artistic concerns, Marvel history, or continuity. Let's be frank here, anything with Wolverine it will sell. That's why he's in every comic book. He's all over Ultimates3.
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Post by woodside on Feb 25, 2008 20:58:59 GMT -5
The Mighty Avengers are simply a piece in larger machine, the machine being the Intiative. A lot of other super-heroes are spread across the 50 states or at Camp Hammond. Or even underground.
I'm curious to see where "Secret Invasion" will take the Avengers titles. It wouldn't surprise me if we see the end of an era here in regards to New/Mighty Avengers. Which is fine by me.
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Post by goldenfist on Feb 26, 2008 14:50:12 GMT -5
Are you saying that your hoping that the books get cancled.
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Post by woodside on Feb 26, 2008 21:37:47 GMT -5
Are you saying that your hoping that the books get cancled. Of course not, but I'm hoping that things get shaken up. As much as I am enjoying the current Marvel age, I'm ready for 1) a new, more classic Avengers line-up and 2) heroes to stop fighting heroes. I would rather see a new writer handling a more classic team of Avengers and Bendis continuing on with "New Avengers" characters (the one's he's good at writing) such as Luke Cage, Jessica, Iron Fist, Spider-Woman, Spider-Man, etc.
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Post by goldenfist on Feb 27, 2008 21:51:10 GMT -5
I doubt Bendis will ever get off of New Avengers.
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Post by woodside on Feb 27, 2008 22:24:56 GMT -5
Everyone leaves at some point, goldenfist.
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Post by bobc on Feb 28, 2008 9:44:44 GMT -5
I am praying that he gets Mad Cow disease.
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Post by woodside on Feb 28, 2008 13:18:36 GMT -5
I know no one will agree with me on this, but I think is a point to having Wolverine on the team other than just the good ol' cash cow and doing "what the Avengers can't." If you think of it, Wolverine is probably one of the most connected individuals in the Marvel Universe.
He has a history with Ms. Marvel, Spider-Woman, Thing, Captain America, Elektra, Spider-Man's parents, Nick Fury, and I'm sure a bunch of others I haven't listed here. He has connections in both the US and Canadian governments, as well as mystical allies, and a long-standing reputation in Madripoor. He has levels of connections and social ties that the others don't have. Let's not forget his closeness with X-Men could gain him access to resource the rest of the Avengers don't have.
So, it's not like there's a total lack of reason for him being there.
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Post by starfoxxx on Feb 28, 2008 14:24:24 GMT -5
Wizard #198 has an article that says Wolverine will be making 11 appearances in March's Marvel titles. Wolverine,Wolv:Origins,Wolverine:First Class,Logan#1,Uncanny,X-force,New Avengers,Marvel Adv. Avengers, Ultimate X-men, Ultimate Spider-man, and Ultimates 3. That's gotta be some kind of record. Even the Beyonder during SW II didn't get around like that!
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Post by von Bek on Feb 28, 2008 16:05:39 GMT -5
Someone has to tell Joe Quesada that Wolverine is not everyone´s favourite character... It worse than the 90´s...
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Post by bobc on Feb 28, 2008 16:10:41 GMT -5
Right--but because he's so "popular" no writer is ever allowed to do much of anything with him because nobody wants to mess up the popularity. HENCE--he never adds much of anything to the stories, he just stands and poses and pops his claws. I found all that infinitely fascination for three decades now, but the whole thing is way beyond stale.
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Post by von Bek on Feb 28, 2008 16:23:59 GMT -5
At least Wolverine got a very good writer for his ongoing title - Jason Aaron. I don´t hate the character per se, but he shouldn´t be in 11 books a month, and he really doesn´t belong in any Avengers comic.
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