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Post by Alchemist-X on May 9, 2007 17:59:50 GMT -5
After reading this I've come to at least one conclusion. Someone must have switched the real dialoge with mock dialogue because this book spends so much time poking fun at itself. Besides what you all probably saw in the preview theres one other big joke made at our New Avengers expense that seems to be ported straight from half this boards "Grade A material" in making fun of this roster.
Since I'm probably the only one who's read the whole thing so far I'll hold off on the spoiler discussion untill theres someone to discuss with, but please share your thoughts
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Post by Van Plexico on May 11, 2007 7:20:04 GMT -5
This issue was clicking along fairly well for me. But by the time it was done, I had several problems with it.
1. The cover gave away the big shock ending.
2. Nobody seemed to notice or care that the shock event had happened, in the comic, anyway.
And one problem I have with Bendis's writing is that he does that kind of thing and doesn't seem to care if the reader understands it or not. Some would say that's modern or edgy storytelling; I call it lazy or unskillful--failing to view the story as the reader views it, and give the reader either what they need to understand it, or a puzzle to wonder about. By doing neither, we're left just scratching our heads.
3. I continue to have problems following Bendis's dialogue during fights. When Cage started his parley (and I do like Cage in that role), the dialogue suddenly quit matching up so well with the action. I had to read the last several pages over twice and I still feel like I missed something somewhere. But I get that a lot with Bendis. (For example, why is Danny yelling, "Luke!" there?)
4. Why does Cage have sword blades sticking out of his head at the end? Either he's invulnerable or he's dead, right?!
5. I really don't much care for Spidey's black costume. It's supposed to be edgy or something, but here it just looks dull and bland to me.
6. Clint. Yeah, that was a shocker... Except to the 99% of readers who figured it out from the start. Better to have put that on the cover than Strange with the sword through him.
7. I really, really don't like Lenil Yu's art here. He makes Maya Lopez, for example, look like a Rat Creature at the end. I'm sure this would be fine on another book (something like Daredevil, maybe), but it doesn't work for the Avengers. Fortunately, his run is now, for a team of "Avengers" I care next to nothing about.
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Post by Doctor Doom on May 11, 2007 18:03:36 GMT -5
My main problem with this is that the title's ANTAGONIST makes a heartfelt plea to the protagonists and tries to extend an olive branch while they basically stare at him in revulsion, then tell one another that they have no purpose and if worst comes to worst they'll beat each other up.
Yeah, now I REALLY want to support the New Avengers.
That aside, it was okay. Nothing special, nothing horrific. I'm guessing this big SHIELD conspiracy will be our Bendis-written crossover of 2008. Hopefully better than House of M . Other notes:
-SPIDER-MAN BECOMES THE FIRST NEW AVENGER TO SAY "OY!" -Luke Cage is officially the worst Avengers leader in history. His actions lead to him getting pwnt by Doctor Strange, telling his team they'll all fight each other if he's wrong, and his entire team being decimated by Ninjas. -Wolverine earns my "line of the week" with the line: "You can't stall ninjas!" That seemed like a shout out right there. -As Van says, the end may have been more effective if it weren't on the cover -Yu's art still sucks
Overall, a 7/10.
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Post by bendisbites on May 12, 2007 12:13:21 GMT -5
The spell of purity may have been the stupidest thing I've ever read in a comic.There are issues of Betty and Veronica that make more sense. And those issues have better art. The spell is the most lame deus ex machina in the world. And it doesn't prove anything.Someone can think they're doing the right thing be pure of purpose and still be wholly wrong. Fairly sure both sides of the Crusades believed they were right. Or like the people buying this issue because they want to keep the Avengers collection intact just because it has the word Avengers on it. And more ninjas. It's like Bendis will keep shoving them down our throats until we learn to like the taste. Overall a -2/1000000. And I'm being generous.
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Post by balok on May 12, 2007 16:09:04 GMT -5
Yeah, I saw that cover and I thought to myself, "Bendis simply cannot write." Doctor Strange has a dozen or more ways to keep such a thing from *ever happening* to him. Hell, Doctor Strange by himself should be able to take out as many ninjas as there are.
I'm so glad I don't get this piece of trash any longer.
And if Bendis writes the big crossover in 2008, that by itself will keep my from purchasing it.
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Post by Doctor Doom on May 13, 2007 5:06:44 GMT -5
To be fair Balok, it's not like a ninja just stabs him in battle. Echo betrays them and wedges it into his chest very suddenly./ It's still implausible, but not as bad as you probably think.
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Post by Alchemist-X on May 13, 2007 15:03:06 GMT -5
The spell of purity may have been the stupidest thing I've ever read in a comic.There are issues of Betty and Veronica that make more sense. And those issues have better art. The spell is the most lame deus ex machina in the world. And it doesn't prove anything.Someone can think they're doing the right thing be pure of purpose and still be wholly wrong. Fairly sure both sides of the Crusades believed they were right. Or like the people buying this issue because they want to keep the Avengers collection intact just because it has the word Avengers on it. And more ninjas. It's like Bendis will keep shoving them down our throats until we learn to like the taste. Overall a -2/1000000. And I'm being generous. I can't agree with the spell being the lamest deus ex machina ever, simply because if it is, then it would be completely implausable to call Dr. Strange anything but the lamest deus ex machina character ever. Also I'd like to point out I don't buy New Avengers to keep my collection complete (My Avengers collection is spotty and conists of TBAs more than anything) But because I enjoyed the story and the team dynamic (Pre-civil war, post civil war, the Art is just too bad to enjoy anything) I also find a lot of amusement in how people can look at the cover and instantly know how bad a writer Bendis is. Please tell me how you've obtained psychic powers because it would save me alot of money if I could read all my comic books without actualyl having to buy or open them. Wait I think I hear something like "Well I already read Bendis writing a few issues of the New Avengers, and it was bad, so therefore all New Avengers, Powers, Mighty Avengers, Ultimate Spiderman and any other things Bendis does are bad, it doesn't take psychic powers for that" But in that case I read a story by Kurt Busiek I didn't like too much, so I've got to say all the classic Avengers stories that you guys seem to love are clearly terrible and should be burned and forgoten by Marvel. BURNED AND FORGOTTEN. I never actually read any of that, but Since Busiek wrote a story in a different genre that I didn't like, everything he ever produces is bad.
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Post by Alchemist-X on May 13, 2007 15:22:27 GMT -5
This issue was clicking along fairly well for me. But by the time it was done, I had several problems with it. 1. The cover gave away the big shock ending. 2. Nobody seemed to notice or care that the shock event had happened, in the comic, anyway. And one problem I have with Bendis's writing is that he does that kind of thing and doesn't seem to care if the reader understands it or not. Some would say that's modern or edgy storytelling; I call it lazy or unskillful--failing to view the story as the reader views it, and give the reader either what they need to understand it, or a puzzle to wonder about. By doing neither, we're left just scratching our heads. 3. I continue to have problems following Bendis's dialogue during fights. When Cage started his parley (and I do like Cage in that role), the dialogue suddenly quit matching up so well with the action. I had to read the last several pages over twice and I still feel like I missed something somewhere. But I get that a lot with Bendis. (For example, why is Danny yelling, "Luke!" there?) 4. Why does Cage have sword blades sticking out of his head at the end? Either he's invulnerable or he's dead, right?! 5. I really don't much care for Spidey's black costume. It's supposed to be edgy or something, but here it just looks dull and bland to me. 6. Clint. Yeah, that was a shocker... Except to the 99% of readers who figured it out from the start. Better to have put that on the cover than Strange with the sword through him. 7. I really, really don't like Lenil Yu's art here. He makes Maya Lopez, for example, look like a Rat Creature at the end. I'm sure this would be fine on another book (something like Daredevil, maybe), but it doesn't work for the Avengers. Fortunately, his run is now, for a team of "Avengers" I care next to nothing about. 1. Not a shock ending at all 2. Iron Fist Cared, everyone was too busy being impaled. 3. I believe he's yelling Luke in refference the the pannel directly the the right where Luke is being chopped by about three different Ninjas. 4. My guess is that the last half of that fight (Including being stabbed) is all an illusion cast by Dr. Strange. Or Cage is dead and half the board can stop complaining. 5. I love the black costume, but if for no other reason than its the only thing that Yu draws half decently. 6. I would have been marginally more shocked if the spoilers weren't posted here so long ago. 7. Can't agree more
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Post by bendisbites on May 13, 2007 15:28:23 GMT -5
The spell of purity may have been the stupidest thing I've ever read in a comic.There are issues of Betty and Veronica that make more sense. And those issues have better art. The spell is the most lame deus ex machina in the world. And it doesn't prove anything.Someone can think they're doing the right thing be pure of purpose and still be wholly wrong. Fairly sure both sides of the Crusades believed they were right. Or like the people buying this issue because they want to keep the Avengers collection intact just because it has the word Avengers on it. And more ninjas. It's like Bendis will keep shoving them down our throats until we learn to like the taste. Overall a -2/1000000. And I'm being generous. I can't agree with the spell being the lamest deus ex machina ever, simply because if it is, then it would be completely implausable to call Dr. Strange anything but the lamest deus ex machina character ever. Also I'd like to point out I don't buy New Avengers to keep my collection complete (My Avengers collection is spotty and conists of TBAs more than anything) But because I enjoyed the story and the team dynamic (Pre-civil war, post civil war, the Art is just too bad to enjoy anything) I also find a lot of amusement in how people can look at the cover and instantly know how bad a writer Bendis is. Please tell me how you've obtained psychic powers because it would save me alot of money if I could read all my comic books without actualyl having to buy or open them. Wait I think I hear something like "Well I already read Bendis writing a few issues of the New Avengers, and it was bad, so therefore all New Avengers, Powers, Mighty Avengers, Ultimate Spiderman and any other things Bendis does are bad, it doesn't take psychic powers for that" But in that case I read a story by Kurt Busiek I didn't like too much, so I've got to say all the classic Avengers stories that you guys seem to love are clearly terrible and should be burned and forgoten by Marvel. BURNED AND FORGOTTEN. I never actually read any of that, but Since Busiek wrote a story in a different genre that I didn't like, everything he ever produces is bad. I read the issue and thought it was stupid. At my comic shop they allow me to look at a book for five minutes before I buy it. If it's got stupid stuff in it I don't buy it. Personally I think it doesn't make sense to not preview a book. It's a several dollar investment. And your point on Bendis- Busiek thing, if I ever read anything from Bendis I really liked I would agree. I haven't moderately enjoyed more than maybe two stories out of a hundred. That's different than reading one story and then condemning everything unseen. You want to discuss any of a number of stories that I've read and disliked that's fine. Don't belittle my point with a facetious argument, skippy. The problem is everything Avengers these days is linked to Bendis and these big events that read like big steaming piles of monkey (self edit). And the spell of purity is stupid and pointless. Tony Stark believes in the righteousness of his beliefs doesn't he? Not only that, shouldn't Strange cast that spell everytime he meets someone so that he doesn't have to suspect their methods? For example when the Son Of Satan comes to my door saying he wants to help, I'd cast that spell in a second. The heroes don't have to trust each other and it gets rid of that whole dynamic tension which is why they sorta did that whole stupid civil war in the first place right? Now that I thunk about it, isn't New Avengers comprised of a bunch of characters who get along really well with each other? Pretty boring concept.
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Post by Alchemist-X on May 13, 2007 15:43:44 GMT -5
Yeah I feel so inclined to have further discussion with you, as you seem to be able to critique comics so well. I mean "steaming piles of monkey (self edit)?" that explains to me perfectly every problem you've had with the specific series bendis worked on. Waaait, no it doesn't even prove to me you've read any Bendis work besides NA does it.
But to be fair the point on not reading books/reading a little bendis and using it to condem all his works is more directed towards a certain wild exagerator.
So I'll ask politely, what Bendis work have you read and why did you find it to be bad?
The Spell of Purity as described by Dr. Strange "It will clearly show anyone who is living with deception towards us." That means anyone pretending to be on their side to bring them down would be exposed. SO It would work on Iron man, if he was trying to decieve the group in any way.
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Post by Doctor Doom on May 13, 2007 15:49:54 GMT -5
Just to add, the art sucks but I don't think Cage has been impaled through the head... I think the sword breaks into two off his head.
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Post by Alchemist-X on May 13, 2007 15:55:37 GMT -5
I never thought of that, that that would make more sense than any of my ideas. BUT I MEAN COME ON EVEN I CAN DRAW A SWORD BROKEN OVER A HEAD THAT LOOKS BETTER THAN THAT.
Why did anyone ever thing Yu would be a good fit for NA??? I mean clearly the art does not reflect the story that has been written and I think that is the problem with the fight scenes. (I never had trouble following fights in USM for example, but I've always had a problem following Yu's paneling order
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Post by Doctor Doom on May 13, 2007 16:24:49 GMT -5
I have no idea. Apparantly some people like them but I have yet to meet such a person. I have always hated Yu's art, mind you. There's distinctive and then there's "a mess."
I am NOT exagerating when I say I prefer Liefeld's, it's less.... dirty...
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Post by Alchemist-X on May 13, 2007 17:49:44 GMT -5
Yu vs Liefeld........dark and gritty vs anatomically incorrect. As much as it pains me to say it, I might go with Liefled too.....and that really says something.
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Post by balok on May 13, 2007 18:37:39 GMT -5
I can't agree with the spell being the lamest deus ex machina ever, simply because if it is, then it would be completely implausable to call Dr. Strange anything but the lamest deus ex machina character ever. Well, I don't know if I'd call him lame, exactly, but properly written, Dr. Strange IS a deus ex machina character. That's why a lot of writers don't like to write for him. I also find a lot of amusement in how people can look at the cover and instantly know how bad a writer Bendis is. Please tell me how you've obtained psychic powers because it would save me alot of money if I could read all my comic books without actualyl having to buy or open them. It wasn't only the cover. I already had a low opinion of Bendis from several dozen poor issues of New Avengers (basically, everything since about #5, and I followed the book into the middle twenties). What the cover did was strongly suggest that the story in #30 wouldn't be any better. Bendis wrote some enjoyable stories in Alias, and his work on Mighty has been... acceptable... so far. He's not *all* bad, but his New Avengers are wretched.
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Post by balok on May 13, 2007 18:38:23 GMT -5
To be fair Balok, it's not like a ninja just stabs him in battle. Echo betrays them and wedges it into his chest very suddenly./ It's still implausible, but not as bad as you probably think. So, when they were supposed to save Echo from being brainwashed, she already *was* brainwashed?
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Post by Alchemist-X on May 13, 2007 19:06:24 GMT -5
Well the Hand had already killed and resurected Echo at that point, and from Wolverine Enemy of the State, I think the resurection process carries the brainwashing with it.
The whole killed and resurected with evil brainwashing by the Hand has been done in a lot of books, so I don't know if what I mentioned from Wolverine is the rule or the exception. Although the recent Enemy of the Stars run on Exiles seems to jive with Wolverine, Exiles isn't nessecarily consistant with 616 Marvel.
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Post by bendisbites on May 13, 2007 19:58:17 GMT -5
Yeah I feel so inclined to have further discussion with you, as you seem to be able to critique comics so well. I mean "steaming piles of monkey (self edit)?" that explains to me perfectly every problem you've had with the specific series bendis worked on. Waaait, no it doesn't even prove to me you've read any Bendis work besides NA does it. But to be fair the point on not reading books/reading a little bendis and using it to condem all his works is more directed towards a certain wild exagerator. So I'll ask politely, what Bendis work have you read and why did you find it to be bad? The Spell of Purity as described by Dr. Strange "It will clearly show anyone who is living with deception towards us." That means anyone pretending to be on their side to bring them down would be exposed. SO It would work on Iron man, if he was trying to decieve the group in any way. I didn't intend to have a dialogue especially after your post pretty much said that my critique was based on one issue. But after reading his first boring Powers that had the most anticlimatic ending in my comic reading history and his Daredevil which proved he didn't know one thing about how trials and evidence actually work as well as his forced ending that had White Tiger acting like the biggest idiot in the world who shouldn't have been able to cross a street because he didn't have the basic sense to look before he did something. Or House of M which made not one bit of sense (if you had the power to change the world would you have created that horrible alternate reality?) and the run of New Avengers I do feel like I can dislike the work with full vitriol. And the spell of purity is still stupid, after all as long as you believe you're doing the right thing, (like Sharon Carter in Cap who didn't know she was brainwashed) you still have a pure heart. And how does it work on artificial beings like Vision? And plotwise if it works it means there's never any deception between characters so it's boring and pointless and it goes against all that stuff Bendis said when he first started writing Avengers. Remember his whole "I want conflict, I want drama" Well this group of outlaws can go sing by a campfire and have s'mores they're so simpatico with each other. So that's what I don't like.
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Post by balok on May 13, 2007 21:31:54 GMT -5
The whole killed and resurected with evil brainwashing by the Hand has been done in a lot of books, so I don't know if what I mentioned from Wolverine is the rule or the exception. Although the recent Enemy of the Stars run on Exiles seems to jive with Wolverine, Exiles isn't nessecarily consistant with 616 Marvel. Yeah, the idea that a group of jumped up sword swingers should be able to kill and resurrected folks is fairly ludicrous as such things go. Such powers should be reserved to the really heavy hitters, in my view, and a motley collection of pajama wearing loons just doesn't qualify. A thumbs down to (I think) Frank Miller for establishing that as canon.
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Post by Alchemist-X on May 13, 2007 22:57:08 GMT -5
Yeah I feel so inclined to have further discussion with you, as you seem to be able to critique comics so well. I mean "steaming piles of monkey (self edit)?" that explains to me perfectly every problem you've had with the specific series bendis worked on. Waaait, no it doesn't even prove to me you've read any Bendis work besides NA does it. But to be fair the point on not reading books/reading a little bendis and using it to condem all his works is more directed towards a certain wild exagerator. So I'll ask politely, what Bendis work have you read and why did you find it to be bad? The Spell of Purity as described by Dr. Strange "It will clearly show anyone who is living with deception towards us." That means anyone pretending to be on their side to bring them down would be exposed. SO It would work on Iron man, if he was trying to decieve the group in any way. I didn't intend to have a dialogue especially after your post pretty much said that my critique was based on one issue. But after reading his first boring Powers that had the most anticlimatic ending in my comic reading history and his Daredevil which proved he didn't know one thing about how trials and evidence actually work as well as his forced ending that had White Tiger acting like the biggest idiot in the world who shouldn't have been able to cross a street because he didn't have the basic sense to look before he did something. Or House of M which made not one bit of sense (if you had the power to change the world would you have created that horrible alternate reality?) and the run of New Avengers I do feel like I can dislike the work with full vitriol. And the spell of purity is still stupid, after all as long as you believe you're doing the right thing, (like Sharon Carter in Cap who didn't know she was brainwashed) you still have a pure heart. And how does it work on artificial beings like Vision? And plotwise if it works it means there's never any deception between characters so it's boring and pointless and it goes against all that stuff Bendis said when he first started writing Avengers. Remember his whole "I want conflict, I want drama" Well this group of outlaws can go sing by a campfire and have s'mores they're so simpatico with each other. So that's what I don't like. Well I never read the Daredevil stuff so I can't comment on that, but I found Powers to be quite enjoyable, and to be a very interesting take on a sort of modern superhuman society. It also flows like more of a drama/mystery story more than a superhero story at times and I also like this because it fits well for the type of story being told. House of M was also enjoyable as a sort of step away alternate reality. (Obviously she couldn't control her powers to the extent needed to make a perfect world, just change the world to be different. And for the record, it was a pretty good world if you were the Scarlet Witch so that made sense to me) I liked the New Avengers Pre-Civil becaues it felt like just that, a new Fresh Avengers team composed of Marvel's biggest icons. Post Civil War the team has been so so (But I like Iron Fist as the new Bankroller, too bad I can barely recognize him with that Art) As for the Spell thing, it was supposed to find any deception, so I would think anyone who wasn't as they had presented themselves be it via remote mind control, shapeshifting, robot replacement or dilluded sense of justice, they would be shown. (and Incapacitated)
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Post by Alchemist-X on May 13, 2007 23:04:41 GMT -5
The whole killed and resurected with evil brainwashing by the Hand has been done in a lot of books, so I don't know if what I mentioned from Wolverine is the rule or the exception. Although the recent Enemy of the Stars run on Exiles seems to jive with Wolverine, Exiles isn't nessecarily consistant with 616 Marvel. Yeah, the idea that a group of jumped up sword swingers should be able to kill and resurrected folks is fairly ludicrous as such things go. Such powers should be reserved to the really heavy hitters, in my view, and a motley collection of pajama wearing loons just doesn't qualify. A thumbs down to (I think) Frank Miller for establishing that as canon. Ninjas have a certain magic element associated with them and that lets me feel that mystic resurections are more feasible for them. Besides don't blame Frank Miller, blame Mark Millar, Frank only introduced the concept in a small dose (For Electra if I recall) wereas Mark Millar's more recent Enemy of the State Run has the Hand team up with AIM and Hydra to mass produce the procedure.
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Post by imperiusrex on May 14, 2007 13:33:50 GMT -5
I didn't intend to have a dialogue especially after your post pretty much said that my critique was based on one issue. But after reading his first boring Powers that had the most anticlimatic ending in my comic reading history and his Daredevil which proved he didn't know one thing about how trials and evidence actually work as well as his forced ending that had White Tiger acting like the biggest idiot in the world who shouldn't have been able to cross a street because he didn't have the basic sense to look before he did something. Or House of M which made not one bit of sense (if you had the power to change the world would you have created that horrible alternate reality?) and the run of New Avengers I do feel like I can dislike the work with full vitriol. And the spell of purity is still stupid, after all as long as you believe you're doing the right thing, (like Sharon Carter in Cap who didn't know she was brainwashed) you still have a pure heart. And how does it work on artificial beings like Vision? And plotwise if it works it means there's never any deception between characters so it's boring and pointless and it goes against all that stuff Bendis said when he first started writing Avengers. Remember his whole "I want conflict, I want drama" Well this group of outlaws can go sing by a campfire and have s'mores they're so simpatico with each other. So that's what I don't like. Well I never read the Daredevil stuff so I can't comment on that, but I found Powers to be quite enjoyable, and to be a very interesting take on a sort of modern superhuman society. It also flows like more of a drama/mystery story more than a superhero story at times and I also like this because it fits well for the type of story being told. House of M was also enjoyable as a sort of step away alternate reality. (Obviously she couldn't control her powers to the extent needed to make a perfect world, just change the world to be different. And for the record, it was a pretty good world if you were the Scarlet Witch so that made sense to me) I liked the New Avengers Pre-Civil becaues it felt like just that, a new Fresh Avengers team composed of Marvel's biggest icons. Post Civil War the team has been so so (But I like Iron Fist as the new Bankroller, too bad I can barely recognize him with that Art) As for the Spell thing, it was supposed to find any deception, so I would think anyone who wasn't as they had presented themselves be it via remote mind control, shapeshifting, robot replacement or dilluded sense of justice, they would be shown. (and Incapacitated) Well not to contradict entirely but wasn't Wanda's reality a place where essentially the big differences were that mutants and humans had their roles reversed? True that wanda had everything she wanted, but the world was just as precarious and frightening in its own way as the regular reality, right? I would think that wouldn't be the ideal place for someone with Wanda's caring nature to create. isn't her niece a human? And my take on the spell of purity is that the Doc wouldn't be so invasive as to wholly read through someone but rather skims across their true heart as evidenced by the fact that Spider Woman seems pained by the spell. She appears conflicted by her choices, but still somewhat on their side although the poor art doesn't do a great job conveying it. And also I really hate that magic is always treated as so infallible. That's part of the reason Dr. Strange is so boring. If he does a spell it just works. It might be nice if the good doctor had some arrogance about him that clouded his viewpoint. He is a former surgeon and many of them tend to have high opinions of self. Imagine going from thinking of yourself as God to actually seeing the birth of the universe. A little more personality and less perfection might make the doctor far more interesting.
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Post by Alchemist-X on May 14, 2007 13:39:02 GMT -5
Well I never read the Daredevil stuff so I can't comment on that, but I found Powers to be quite enjoyable, and to be a very interesting take on a sort of modern superhuman society. It also flows like more of a drama/mystery story more than a superhero story at times and I also like this because it fits well for the type of story being told. House of M was also enjoyable as a sort of step away alternate reality. (Obviously she couldn't control her powers to the extent needed to make a perfect world, just change the world to be different. And for the record, it was a pretty good world if you were the Scarlet Witch so that made sense to me) I liked the New Avengers Pre-Civil becaues it felt like just that, a new Fresh Avengers team composed of Marvel's biggest icons. Post Civil War the team has been so so (But I like Iron Fist as the new Bankroller, too bad I can barely recognize him with that Art) As for the Spell thing, it was supposed to find any deception, so I would think anyone who wasn't as they had presented themselves be it via remote mind control, shapeshifting, robot replacement or dilluded sense of justice, they would be shown. (and Incapacitated) Well not to contradict entirely but wasn't Wanda's reality a place where essentially the big differences were that mutants and humans had their roles reversed? True that wanda had everything she wanted, but the world was just as precarious and frightening in its own way as the regular reality, right? I would think that wouldn't be the ideal place for someone with Wanda's caring nature to create. isn't her niece a human? And my take on the spell of purity is that the Doc wouldn't be so invasive as to wholly read through someone but rather skims across their true heart as evidenced by the fact that Spider Woman seems pained by the spell. She appears conflicted by her choices, but still somewhat on their side although the poor art doesn't do a great job conveying it. And also I really hate that magic is always treated as so infallible. That's part of the reason Dr. Strange is so boring. If he does a spell it just works. It might be nice if the good doctor had some arrogance about him that clouded his viewpoint. He is a former surgeon and many of them tend to have high opinions of self. Imagine going from thinking of yourself as God to actually seeing the birth of the universe. A little more personality and less perfection might make the doctor far more interesting. But the second he shows weakness everyone will jump all over it complaining of Dr. Strange being dumbed down, quite the no win situation. I would prefer a weaker/or slightly more arrogant/defeatable Dr. Strange just to keep the team a little more balanced.
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Post by imperiusrex on May 14, 2007 14:17:22 GMT -5
well not if it grows out of an organic storyline it won't. In fact Dr. Strange has been a floundering character for years, unable to sustain a title and in fact his best run was likely when he was facing Dracula, a foe that seemed to have a bit of an advantage in cunning on the good Doc. So people don't mind seeing Strange on the ropes a little bit. And if the reason NOT to do it is that people are going to complain about Bendis' handling of the character, well I can't see how that would be different in any way than it is now.
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Post by von Bek on May 14, 2007 14:32:19 GMT -5
Strange had a great run in the early 80´s by Roger Stern and Marshall Rogers, but after that no one seems to be able to tell interesting stories with him (well, the 2005 Defenders mini series may be the exception).
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Post by imperiusrex on May 14, 2007 15:51:45 GMT -5
Strange had a great run in the early 80´s by Roger Stern and Marshall Rogers, but after that no one seems to be able to tell interesting stories with him (well, the 2005 Defenders mini series may be the exception). Stern did have a nice run on the book, but sadly the late Marshall Rogers didn't. I believe his tenure lasted about six issues. Stern went on to work with Paul Smith, Dan Green and Steve Leialoha on the title, and did do some pretty darn good stories, but kind of puttered out at the end. However the Dracula saga remains a highlight for me.
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Post by Tana Nile on May 14, 2007 18:46:03 GMT -5
Strange had a great run in the early 80´s by Roger Stern and Marshall Rogers, but after that no one seems to be able to tell interesting stories with him (well, the 2005 Defenders mini series may be the exception). Stern did have a nice run on the book, but sadly the late Marshall Rogers didn't. I believe his tenure lasted about six issues. Stern went on to work with Paul Smith, Dan Green and Steve Leialoha on the title, and did do some pretty darn good stories, but kind of puttered out at the end. However the Dracula saga remains a highlight for me. I would agree, in all the various incarnations of Dr. Strange titles, that storyline with Dracula is the one that stands out. It actually made me a regular Dr. Strange reader, which I had never been before (or since). It's always seemed to me like he works best as a guest star. I feel the same way about Dr. Fate. These characters have such immense and ill-defined powers that there often seems to be little suspense when they are involved in a story.
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Post by balok on May 14, 2007 19:24:40 GMT -5
Besides don't blame Frank Miller, blame Mark Millar, Frank only introduced the concept in a small dose (For Electra if I recall) wereas Mark Millar's more recent Enemy of the State Run has the Hand team up with AIM and Hydra to mass produce the procedure. One more reason for me to dislike Mark Millar, then.
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Post by imperiusrex on May 14, 2007 23:33:47 GMT -5
Stern did have a nice run on the book, but sadly the late Marshall Rogers didn't. I believe his tenure lasted about six issues. Stern went on to work with Paul Smith, Dan Green and Steve Leialoha on the title, and did do some pretty darn good stories, but kind of puttered out at the end. However the Dracula saga remains a highlight for me. I would agree, in all the various incarnations of Dr. Strange titles, that storyline with Dracula is the one that stands out. It actually made me a regular Dr. Strange reader, which I had never been before (or since). It's always seemed to me like he works best as a guest star. I feel the same way about Dr. Fate. These characters have such immense and ill-defined powers that there often seems to be little suspense when they are involved in a story. Oh Tana, I want to disagree with you sometimes, but you just show so much good taste... ;D
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Post by Tana Nile on May 15, 2007 1:07:54 GMT -5
I would agree, in all the various incarnations of Dr. Strange titles, that storyline with Dracula is the one that stands out. It actually made me a regular Dr. Strange reader, which I had never been before (or since). It's always seemed to me like he works best as a guest star. I feel the same way about Dr. Fate. These characters have such immense and ill-defined powers that there often seems to be little suspense when they are involved in a story. Oh Tana, I want to disagree with you sometimes, but you just show so much good taste... ;D Well I would never argue with such a discerning gentleman!
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