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Post by von Bek on Aug 1, 2006 9:15:43 GMT -5
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Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
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Post by Ultron on Aug 1, 2006 13:12:51 GMT -5
The Crazy 90's are here again it seems. All that sells is a crossover. Or a miniseries. Or has alternate covers. Or kills someone. Or is a #1. Or unmasks whomever. Or promises to break the internet in half.
Only with 1\10 the sales this time around...
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Post by redstatecap on Aug 1, 2006 22:47:04 GMT -5
The fans are as much to blame as Marvel. There are enough completist fans out there to support whatever crap Marvel produces. Therefore Marvel continues to produce crap, because there is no incentive to improve the product.
Unfortunately for Marvel, not everyone is a completist. The newcomer fans who are looking for innovative entertainment in the comic format, and the non-completist fans, are just going to take a look at the slate of crap Marvel produces and say: "no thanks."
Eventually you end up with a dwindling fanbase supported largely by completists (which is where I think Marvel is right now) while other potential fans have gone elsewhere because the product is poor.
RSC
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Post by Black Knight on Aug 2, 2006 15:15:29 GMT -5
The fans are as much to blame as Marvel. There are enough completist fans out there to support whatever crap Marvel produces. Therefore Marvel continues to produce crap, because there is no incentive to improve the product. Unfortunately for Marvel, not everyone is a completist. The newcomer fans who are looking for innovative entertainment in the comic format, and the non-completist fans, are just going to take a look at the slate of crap Marvel produces and say: "no thanks." Eventually you end up with a dwindling fanbase supported largely by completists (which is where I think Marvel is right now) while other potential fans have gone elsewhere because the product is poor. RSC Unless there are 100K completists, I highly doubt that we are the majority of the buyers. Personally I think it is the 15-25 year old readers that are buying in to the crap that marvel is putting out now. These readers don't care about continuum, they don't care how Cap has acted for the last year much less the last 10. All they care about is what they are being told is cool. |
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Post by redstatecap on Aug 2, 2006 22:34:56 GMT -5
Take the Captain America title for example. The years since the end of V1 have been some pretty bad ones. Even in the lowest of the low, vol. 4, the title was still selling in the high 30s. And that was an era I'm ashamed to admit is even in continuity. Right now Cap is selling in the mid-40s and is roundly praised as a fan favorite, the best Cap's been in 20 years, etc.
The point is, going from absolute unmitigated crap to almost universal praise added barely 10k readers, or about 20% of sales. Therefore, it seems clear to me that there is a hard core (a large majority, even) of completist Cap fans -- fans who consistently bought the book through the worst era in Cap history.
RSC
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Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
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Post by Ultron on Aug 3, 2006 14:29:24 GMT -5
The fans are as much to blame as Marvel. There are enough completist fans out there to support whatever crap Marvel produces. Therefore Marvel continues to produce crap, because there is no incentive to improve the product. Unfortunately for Marvel, not everyone is a completist. The newcomer fans who are looking for innovative entertainment in the comic format, and the non-completist fans, are just going to take a look at the slate of crap Marvel produces and say: "no thanks." Eventually you end up with a dwindling fanbase supported largely by completists (which is where I think Marvel is right now) while other potential fans have gone elsewhere because the product is poor. RSC That is very much true, and an unfortunate comment on the praises on the qualities on the "free market" system, slowly, it's showing the the most brute, simpleton, cheap forces tend to defeat the sensible, quality, taste forces. A whole new other issue, but still, unescapable. We see it everywhere Music, Comics, Movies, TV. Trash reigns supreme. |
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Ultron
Reservist Avenger
"Die, Humans!"
Posts: 196
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Post by Ultron on Aug 3, 2006 14:33:17 GMT -5
Unless there are 100K completists. Unfortunately the quantity of completists must nonetheless be impressive, majority or not. The amount of people i konw who buy X-Men yet claim it's and unreadable mess, and the same with people who get New Avengers, is unbelievable. Say that a book sells 100k, and 30k are completists, and 30k are people who stop reading at some point. If both dropped the book would fall 60% to a measly 40k sales, thus be cancelled or put back as loyal fans wanted it. But since completists never stop, allied with people that might actually like this stuff, it's more than enough to maintain these books alive - Even if a majority might no like them. |
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Post by von Bek on Aug 3, 2006 14:54:22 GMT -5
The fans are as much to blame as Marvel. There are enough completist fans out there to support whatever crap Marvel produces. Therefore Marvel continues to produce crap, because there is no incentive to improve the product. Unfortunately for Marvel, not everyone is a completist. The newcomer fans who are looking for innovative entertainment in the comic format, and the non-completist fans, are just going to take a look at the slate of crap Marvel produces and say: "no thanks." Eventually you end up with a dwindling fanbase supported largely by completists (which is where I think Marvel is right now) while other potential fans have gone elsewhere because the product is poor. RSC That is very much true, and an unfortunate comment on the praises on the qualities on the "free market" system, slowly, it's showing the the most brute, simpleton, cheap forces tend to defeat the sensible, quality, taste forces. A whole new other issue, but still, unescapable. We see it everywhere Music, Comics, Movies, TV. Trash reigns supreme. Not sure I agree with you here, at least in the comic book media. We are watching the slow death of comics (a book selling 100K being considered a success? In the 60´s and 70´s that would have been a joke...) and I think the lack of quality has very much to do with that. |
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Post by redstatecap on Aug 3, 2006 19:33:19 GMT -5
Not sure I agree with you here, at least in the comic book media. We are watching the slow death of comics (a book selling 100K being considered a success? In the 60´s and 70´s that would have been a joke...) and I think the lack of quality has very much to do with that. Perhaps completists aren't entirely responsible for the decline in quality, but they are certainly responsible for a portion of it. They are a brake on free market forces. Marvel is already trying to leverage its characters into other media -- witness the near torrent of movies already done or planned for the next several years, including what are (IMO) highly marginal characters. Probably what it's going to take for comics to survive in the long run is the death of the big guys and a renaissance of small comic companies who see quality as their first criteria. RSC |
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