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Post by spiderwasp on Nov 14, 2007 22:45:34 GMT -5
I know we question each and every leap of logic or inconsistency that we see in Marvel. I'm not saying we shouldn't because that's simply how you critique a work. On the other hand, if we are unable to enjoy the books because they lack the logic and consistency that we used to enjoy, we are kidding ourselves. Marvel (As well as DC) has always been filled with plaguing questions that, if released to us today, would make us rant and rave about the stupidity.
Examples:
*If the Hulk travelled by leaping, how could he change directions in mid-flight or unexpectedly land early if he saw something of interest below him. Wouldn't the momentum have just carried him on? The same is true of Thor who threw his hammer, caught it, and was pulled along.
*Why does Bruce Banner own so many pairs of purple pants? For that matter, why did he own one? Why doesn't he bursts out of those like he does the shirts?
*What is Spidey swinging on when there isn't a building in sight (Such as on the great cover for Avengers vol. III, #1)?
*When the Wasp was captured under items such as a glass, why didn't she just grow and shatter it or lift it off?
*How could Daredevil possibly read the print of a book by feeling the letters, especially when he sometimes did it with gloves?
*Why did Magneto call his group the "Brotherhood of Evil Mutants" when he clearly thought he was justified in his stance against non mutants?
*How can Sub-mariner fly with just tiny wings on his feet?
*Why do some characters wear bulkly costumes that fully cover them (Black Knight, Spider-man, Black Panther) while others, right alongside them wear skimpy ones (Hercules, Sersi, Ms. Marvel, Wasp)? Shouldn't some of them be cold or hot? I've even seen scantily clad women in the snow and they don't seem to mind at all.
*How can anyone who knew Bucky Barnes not have recognized him only the little Robin masks? Especially since his super-hero name was Bucky and his real name was Bucky? Duh.
*How can Alicia Masters sculpt so many heroes accurately? Obviously she has felt up (Nothing dirty implied) Ben and even the rest of the FF but have all those other heroes just dropped by her apartment so she can see what they "look" like? Did the villains drop by too?
*Since Wanda and the Vision obviously had a "physical" relationship, what was Ultron's motivation in giving him the necessary parts? Ultron's never appeared to have them himself.
*If everyone on Howard the Duck's planet is a duck and they all talk rather than quack, why do they call their martial arts "Quack Fu?"
Most of these questions have been asked many times, but how many more do you have? If we're going to criticize Numarvel for it's flaws (And I think we are perfectly justified when do so) let's not ignore that the medium's always been full of them.
What other strange leaps of logic do any of you have?
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Post by Nutcase65 on Nov 15, 2007 11:20:51 GMT -5
good thread SW exalt for you on keeping all things equal
I am reading early Iron Man right now so:
when Iron Man is in a fight and his armor gets all cracked up while polarized, how is it that when he finds a power source to 'plug into' the cracks are gone without him even depolarizing and repolarizing?
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Post by dlw66 on Nov 15, 2007 11:38:59 GMT -5
Why does Ant-Man maintain the strength of his 6-foot size, but Giant-Man's strength increases exponentially? Good questions on Hulk, Thor, and Subby -- I've also wondered those things about their flight! Here's one -- why does anyone care about the Sentry?  |
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Post by Doctor Doom on Nov 15, 2007 12:20:49 GMT -5
Thor/Donald Blake. Surely this is insanely inconsistent? I mean, as a doctor, or an MD in Jake Olson, how was this man not fired. Why pick a job where you clean up after emergencies when 95% of the time, you were IN said emergency and thus cannot do your job? If he really wanted to clean up, couldn't Thor just teleport all the rubble away and whisk people to the hospital?
How exactly Black Bolt grew up as a kid... with those powers? I pity his parents.
What the hell age is Franklin Richards?
Why does no one in the US seem to actually care about the fact that there is a blatantly evil megalomaniacal dictaitor ruling Latveria? It's not like there's ambiguity, his name is actually *DOCTOR. DOOM.* Who on Earth would support this man?
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Post by spiderwasp on Nov 15, 2007 20:10:52 GMT -5
Here's one -- why does anyone care about the Sentry? Are you kidding? He's been a favorite of mine since I was knee high to a grasshopper. I just didn't remember him until Bendis showed me the light. Remember that time he and Squirrel Girl almost got married but she caught him with the White Rabbit? Now that was a story! ;D |
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Post by woodside on Nov 15, 2007 20:16:07 GMT -5
Here's one -- why does anyone care about the Sentry? Are you kidding? He's been a favorite of mine since I was knee high to a grasshopper. I just didn't remember him until Bendis showed me the light. Remember that time he and Squirrel Girl almost got married but she caught him with the White Rabbit? Now that was a story! ;D It was Jenkins who made me remember that he was my favorite! |
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Post by sharkar on Nov 15, 2007 20:19:44 GMT -5
How exactly Black Bolt grew up as a kid... with those powers? I pity his parents. In Thor #149, v. 1, in the Inhumans back-up story, it's stated that Black Bolt has spent years in some sort of isolation chamber, from which he was released when he came of age. I have not read any of the preceding Thor issues that may have referred to this; and it may have have since been retconned, but it looks like he spent his formative years in isolation. *Why did Magneto call his group the "Brotherhood of Evil Mutants" when he clearly thought he was justified in his stance against non mutants? In the beginning ( X-Men #4-#11, during which they made frequent appearances), Magneto himself did not refer to his group as such. The name is used on the cover and as the title of the story in X-Men #4, but he called them "his mutants" or the like. Then, all of sudden years later Mags actually referred to his group as "The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants", in the Roy Thomas-scripted Avengers #47 and following. It's commonly known that there are similarities between DC's Doom Patrol and Marvel's X-Men. Both groups debuted at around the same time, both featured a leader in a wheelchair leading a group of "misfits", and one of the major foes the DP faced was called -- the Brotherhood of Evil! (Magneto's group made its debut first.) *Since Wanda and the Vision obviously had a "physical" relationship, what was Ultron's motivation in giving him the necessary parts? I was going to post this in one of the Vision threads. I know it's been implied they had a physical relationship, but I've wondered about how far it actually went, because of Wanda's assertion in GS Avengers #4 that "love is for souls, not for bodies." Her statement makes me think she knew what to expect in the physical department (and why Byrne depicted the Vision like he did). EDIT: spelling |
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Post by Shiryu on Nov 16, 2007 4:04:19 GMT -5
*Since Wanda and the Vision obviously had a "physical" relationship, what was Ultron's motivation in giving him the necessary parts? I was going to post this in one of the Vision threads. I know it's been implied they had a physical relationship, but I've wondered about how far it actually went, because of Wanda's assertion in GS Avengers #4 that "love is for souls, not for bodies." Her statement makes me think she knew what to expect in the physical department (and why Byrne depicted the Vision like he did). Maybe Vision asked Tony or Hank or anyone else to, ehm, upgrade him ;D |
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Post by sharkar on Nov 16, 2007 14:33:32 GMT -5
Maybe Vision asked Tony or Hank or anyone else to, ehm, upgrade him ;D LOL! And maybe when Dr. Pym reassembled Vizh in WCA, Hank kept some of the spare parts for himself! ;D EDIT: in my haste, forgot to include a word... |
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Post by Shiryu on Nov 16, 2007 14:56:25 GMT -5
 Everything is possible! ;D |
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Post by sharkar on Nov 18, 2007 20:44:34 GMT -5
Both groups debuted at around the same time, both featured a leader in a wheelchair leading a group of "misfits", and one of the major foes the DP faced was called -- the Brotherhood of Evil! (Magneto's group made its debut first.) In terms of which Brotherhood made its debut first, allow me to correct myself: it was probably a dead heat: both X-Men #4 (debut of Magneto's group) and My Greatest Adventure #86 (debut of Brotherhood of Evil) are cover-dated March 1964; and from what I can tell, both issues were on sale in January 1964. *How can Alicia Masters sculpt so many heroes accurately? Obviously she has felt up (Nothing dirty implied) Ben and even the rest of the FF but have all those other heroes just dropped by her apartment so she can see what they "look" like? Did the villains drop by too? Not only that, but when I bought the FF Essentials #6 a few months ago, I remember doing a double-take when I came across a panel that showcased her sculptures, because it included one of Johnny in his flaming Torch form! What other strange leaps of logic do any of you have? I have mentioned this on the boards before, but does anyone know of the sequence in Avengers #79, in which the Vision apparently "trades bodies" with Power Man (Josten not Cage)? The Vizh takes over PM's body and somehow, inexplicably, PM is in the Vision's body (PM's voice is heard coming out of the Vision's body)! This body-switch is how Vision saves the day. My head- scratching moment here is: if the Vision materializes in someone else's body, how does that result in the other person inhabiting the Vision's body?  Also, issues later (#111), Vision inhabits the body of the Piper, and Vizh says it was risky because he was not sure how to do it. Wanda even remarks he's never done this before and he gallantly replies it was a risk he had to take because of her. Granted, Wanda and the others were imprisoned in a giant hourglass contraption in #79, so assuming no one documents the Avengers' adventures, it's possible she was unaware of what he'd done in #79; but didn't the Viz, computer-mind and all, remember? Yeah, I know there were different writers involved (Thomas for #79, Englehart for #111), but still... |
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Post by woodside on Nov 19, 2007 15:14:10 GMT -5
There's an issue of Avengers (the issue where Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch join) where Pym is tossing Cap into the air like a baby. It's so bizzare and out of place. Why is he doing that?
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Post by Doctor Doom on Nov 19, 2007 15:26:04 GMT -5
Wasn't it revealed in an early Avengers issue that Quicksilver's deepest desire in life was to join the circus?
And on the subject of old silverhead, why does he not kill everyone around him from a sonic boom every time he moves?
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Post by dlw66 on Nov 19, 2007 15:31:24 GMT -5
There's an issue of Avengers (the issue where Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch join) where Pym is tossing Cap into the air like a baby. It's so bizzare and out of place. Why is he doing that? If I recall, Cap had just returned to the team after exacting vengeance against Baron Zemo in Latin America. Hank and the others were glad he'd returned safely -- I think this also shows the reverence Hank had for Cap. I don't have the issue in front of me right now, so I could be off an issue or so in my recollection.  |
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Post by Tana Nile on Nov 21, 2007 10:08:28 GMT -5
*Since Wanda and the Vision obviously had a "physical" relationship, what was Ultron's motivation in giving him the necessary parts? I was going to post this in one of the Vision threads. I know it's been implied they had a physical relationship, but I've wondered about how far it actually went, because of Wanda's assertion in GS Avengers #4 that "love is for souls, not for bodies." Her statement makes me think she knew what to expect in the physical department (and why Byrne depicted the Vision like he did). EDIT: spelling I think the question of "does he or doesn't he" with the Vision is a pretty popular one. I would err on the side of "he does", for a few reasons: 1) Horton created the Torch to be "human" so I would assume that all the parts (so to speak) would be there. Of course there is the possibility that Ultron could have modified him in that area. (And yes, I am still working off the idea that Vizh had the Torch's body, or at least a replicate, as per Avengers Forever.) 2)How many times did we hear Pym or someone else say that Vizh was "human in every way- except he's made of synthetic materials"?? He didn't say, "Human in every way - except he has no schlong!" 3) Wanda seemed satisfied, and so did Mantis, in Celestial Quest. Not to say he couldn't have satisfied them in ways that did not require the item in question, but after he and Mantis get it on, he does make comments about enjoying being a man again. OK, it's circumstantial, but hey! The poor guy's been through a lot. besides, Byrne is a wanker! |
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Post by woodside on Nov 21, 2007 11:31:32 GMT -5
This is going to sound very immature, but bare with me . . .
If Vision does indeed have a dong, then what about his berries? Does he have fake balls? And if he did, what would be the point of them? Does he fire out synthetic sperm? If he did, what would be the point of the fake spooge other than just the heck of it?
Goodness, I feel dirty after typing that.
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Post by The Night Phantom on Nov 21, 2007 13:02:54 GMT -5
This is going to sound very immature, but bare with me . . . Deliberate misspelling or Freudian slip? You decide… Well…real-life human beings, even sterile ones, often enjoy nonreproductive sex. With the Vision and the Torch both capable of emotional and, presumably, physical pleasure, it makes sense to include this activity among the full range of capabilities they share with humans. Congratulations: your first question managed to make even vegetarianism feel pornographically filthy.
That’s fairly dirty too… |
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Post by Tana Nile on Nov 21, 2007 16:09:59 GMT -5
What I should have said was, Byrne took his wanker!! |
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Post by woodside on Nov 21, 2007 16:24:00 GMT -5
Well…real-life human beings, even sterile ones, often enjoy nonreproductive sex. With the Vision and the Torch both capable of emotional and, presumably, physical pleasure, it makes sense to include this activity among the full range of capabilities they share with humans. |
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Post by Tana Nile on Nov 23, 2007 12:42:45 GMT -5
I was going through some of the last remaining boxes still in the garage from our recent move, and I came across my old FOOM magazines (for the uninitiated, FOOM was Marvel's in-house fan club in the 1970's). Issue number 12 (1975) is devoted to the Vision and has interviews with both Roy Thomas and Steve Englehart regarding the android avenger.
The question of Vizh's 'equipment' is brought up in both interviews, and both writers seem to waffle some on the question. At first, Englehart seems to have been toying with the idea of Vision being able to get Wanda pregnant himself: "...the Vision could drop around to his local sperm bank and pick up a liter of stuff. But you could never explain that in comics..." Oddly, at this point in time, he also seems to have come to the conclusion that Wanda wouldn't want any children. So he goes on to say, "...given the idea that they were not going to have kids it became very logical to me that Ultron-5 would not have endowed the Vision...given the fact that he was trying to build a sort of "son"...you never think of your son as being a sexually together individual...so as far as I'm concerned, the Vision is non-functional in that area. We will say for the sake of Wanda that he is physically functional." That last sentence just confuses me, but that's where it ends.
Here's Roy Thomas' take:"I always had in mind that, not long after he was created, the Vision was like the androids in Robert Silverberg's Tower of Glass. They too had a kind of sex life. But as far as conception I'm not quite sure what I had in mind when he was first created. I always assumed that he was complete but as far as having a child, I don't know."
To borrow a quote- Roy said it, I believe it, that settles it!! ;D
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Post by The Night Phantom on Nov 27, 2007 6:29:48 GMT -5
What I should have said was, Byrne took his wanker!! Excellent clarification! I wonder what he wanted it for…
Additionally, thanks for the FOOM research. I agree that Englehart’s appraisal is confusing—maybe he was too embarrassed by the question to think straight? I have to question this statement: While your mileage may vary, I think that it’s more common to recognize one’s son as a sexual being than Englehart realized. Of course, on the other hand, we’re talking about a father (Ultron) who himself isn’t a sexual being in a conventional way, as this particular instance of “reproduction” attests… Exaltation for two excellent posts! |
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Post by woodside on Nov 27, 2007 21:01:39 GMT -5
Magneto just happened to recruit his son and daughter into the Brotherhood . . . even though he had no idea that they were related to him nor they him.
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Post by Tana Nile on Nov 28, 2007 14:32:13 GMT -5
What I should have said was, Byrne took his wanker!! Excellent clarification! I wonder what he wanted it for…
Additionally, thanks for the FOOM research. I agree that Englehart’s appraisal is confusing—maybe he was too embarrassed by the question to think straight? I have to question this statement: While your mileage may vary, I think that it’s more common to recognize one’s son as a sexual being than Englehart realized. Of course, on the other hand, we’re talking about a father (Ultron) who himself isn’t a sexual being in a conventional way, as this particular instance of “reproduction” attests… Exaltation for two excellent posts! Thanks for the exalt NP. It was surprising to me that Englehart would actually mention sperm banks in a magazine that might be read by the youngins! |
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Post by The Night Phantom on Dec 6, 2007 17:11:15 GMT -5
Magneto just happened to recruit his son and daughter into the Brotherhood . . . even though he had no idea that they were related to him nor they him. It certainly is very convenient in that pat, melodramatic way, but I think it’s fairly plausible. Consider: - Magneto was recruiting only members of his own species.
- Magneto’s species was quite rare at that time (the spike came later).
- Magneto’s son and daughter were, unsurprisingly, members of his species.
Indeed, Magneto and his other surviving daughter have both been X-Men, too, joining independently of one another. |
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