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Post by Marvel Boy on Jan 4, 2013 12:51:40 GMT -5
First issue came out this week, have to wait till next week for payday before I can read it though.
I was at least going to read the first couple of issues, just to see what Hickman is setting up here. He's said in previous interviews that whereas the Avengers face the public threats, the New Avengers will deal with the secret hidden threats. A reader doesn't have to read both to enjoy either, but if you do read both, you'll see the ties that bind.
That being said, I've always felt a tad uncomfortable with the idea of the Illuminati. On paper, it sounds like a terrific idea. On execution though, it sounds like a great way to retcon in any way any event they didn't like. Maybe Hickman's handling of the group will be more to my liking than how Bendis handled them.
Thoughts?
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Post by wundagoreborn on Jan 4, 2013 13:02:41 GMT -5
I've always felt a tad uncomfortable with the idea of the Illuminati. Ditto. While I'm largely detached from the current stuff and skulk around in back issue world, I went to the comic shop this week looking to put a toe into the Marvel NOW waters starting from a new #1. I put New Avengers back on the rack to pass on the Illuminati. Picked up the first 2 new Caps instead. |
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Post by tomspasic on Jan 4, 2013 19:55:57 GMT -5
I've always felt a tad uncomfortable with the idea of the Illuminati. Ditto. / Double ditto. For me it's a hard sell having a starting point that is a retcon I despise as your central premise and team. spoilage: The first issue reads ok, (if you like Hickman's style). It is full of portents and plot threads and hints. It's well written and drawn, but is very much one small part of a larger whole. And honestly, I'm already getting to the point where I'd like at least one Avengers title which will conclude one storyline in 2013. (Wait, I just remembered Avengers Assemble!) There is something quite dis-spiriting about once again knowing that in a years time I'll still be seeing these plots play out. And I say that as somebody who like Hickman's work. Also, a belated welcome to wundagoreborn. |
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Post by bobc on Jan 18, 2013 11:43:40 GMT -5
This New Avengers is the best Marvel comic series I've read in years. Brilliantly innovative, imaginative, and beautifully illustrated. I can't recommend this comic more highly.
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Post by tomspasic on Jan 18, 2013 16:52:43 GMT -5
The second issue was pretty good.
A good read, though one might pick holes in the plot physics, if one were of a mind to (there are all sorts of problems with the idea that an infinite number of alternate universes would be at all effected by any of them being destroyed. The main problem is that as soon as you destroy one, it creates an alternate universe which was not destroyed, that's how it works).
However, if you ignore that, it's a Big Ideas read, a story large enough to actually warrant multiple issues spent on developing it.
I'd still rather an Illuminati book be called "the Illuminati", as it has no more to do with the Avengers ("New" or otherwise), than it does the FF, or Inhumans or X-men. But there you are, it's labelled as an Avengers title, and it's a good book, so I can live with it.
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Post by humanbelly on Jan 18, 2013 20:12:19 GMT -5
*sigh*
I just wish the cover prices were somewhere in the realm of being justifiable at this point. Four bucks- even for a good comic- is still a hefty chunk of change for 10-minutes'-worth of entertainment. In a relatively short time, I've drifted from being an engaged participant to being an uninformed outsider. Rats.
Bobc, old pal!
Haven't heard from you in forever! GREAT to see you pop back up-- happy belated birthday, eh? ;D ;D ;D
HB
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Post by tomspasic on Jan 19, 2013 6:58:19 GMT -5
*sigh* I just wish the cover prices were somewhere in the realm of being justifiable at this point. Four bucks- even for a good comic- is still a hefty chunk of change for 10-minutes'-worth of entertainment. In a relatively short time, I've drifted from being an engaged participant to being an uninformed outsider. Rats. Bobc, old pal! Haven't heard from you in forever! GREAT to see you pop back up-- happy belated birthday, eh? ;D ;D ;D HB I agree about pricing v entertainment time, but bear in mind this book actually either takes longer than ten minutes to read, or feels like it does (in a good way). Maybe trade-wait to get the full effect, as this is generally better value for money dollar per page. Which is not to argue that the price hikes are justified, merely to point out that this book comes close to providing 4 bucks worth of entertainment, for me. |
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Post by spiderwasp on Jan 20, 2013 3:11:58 GMT -5
Okay, I just read the first two issues and I really did enjoy them. They even followed a logical progression from one issue to the next which isn't always Hickman's strong suit. The characters were interested, the story was interesting, and the pace was pretty good. However, I have some major confusion. Maybe this was all explained in one of the umpteen Bendis books I didn't read so someone can help me out.
1. When did Captain America join the Illuminati? He was not in the original series. I always thought it was strange that he wouldn't have been included but he wasn't.
2. Why does Cap have an Infinity Gem? Cap wasn't even there when they were distributed in issue 3 of the original series. In the current book, Reed and Namor are seen holding theirs, Tony says his is in his sock drawer, Strange's is in another dimension, and the search is on for Xavier's. However, the sixth gem is held by Cap which means Black Bolt doesn't have one even though he clearly got one in the original story. Did Cap somehow come into possession after it was revealed that Black Bolt had been replaced during Secret Invasion? Like I said, maybe this was documented in something I never read but I'm confused. Help.
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Post by tomspasic on Jan 20, 2013 5:37:16 GMT -5
Black Bolt was dead, or at least presumed dead for a while, during or after one of the "annihilation war/wave/wander/waltz/waffle" stories. While he was dead the inhumans left earth, leaving behind his gem. This was stolen by the Hood (ugh!). The Avengers stopped him and got a hold of the gem, which Cap decided to keep, at which point he also joined the illuminati.
Not all of the above was in the Bendis penned Avengers books, but the latter parts were.
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Post by spiderwasp on Jan 20, 2013 9:43:30 GMT -5
Black Bolt was dead, or at least presumed dead for a while, during or after one of the "annihilation war/wave/wander/waltz/waffle" stories. While he was dead the inhumans left earth, leaving behind his gem. This was stolen by the Hood (ugh!). The Avengers stopped him and got a hold of the gem, which Cap decided to keep, at which point he also joined the illuminati. Not all of the above was in the Bendis penned Avengers books, but the latter parts were. Thanks Tom. Exactly as I suspected. It happened somewhere in a book I didn't read. That clears everything right up. |
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Post by bobc on Jan 20, 2013 13:19:03 GMT -5
Hey HB and everybody!
I see a lot of people are bothered by lack of continuity but I gave up on that years ago--in fact I didn't even know Black Bolt was supposed to be dead. Things have been such a convoluted mess at Marvel that I have had to alter the way I think--I am treating New Avengers like it is its own entity, based on the original concept of the Avengers but not tied around the neck by 40 years of continuity. I see New Avengers sort of like the original Ultimates series.
I will happily toss away anything to do with the years of Bendis's run. Even though Hickman is using the Illuminati concept, it doesn't really feel like it. The characters involved are together for a reason and it seems pretty damned scary.
I know no one here likes Black Panther , but I love him and am ecstatic at how he is being handled by Hickman. BP is finally formidable enough to be a major player. And Namor has never been more arrogant than this--he is an amazing character.
It has been years since I rushed to the comic store for one comic. God I hope Hickman doesn't drop the ball.
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Post by spiderwasp on Jan 21, 2013 0:16:53 GMT -5
The second issue was pretty good. I'd still rather an Illuminati book be called "the Illuminati", as it has no more to do with the Avengers ("New" or otherwise), than it does the FF, or Inhumans or X-men. But there you are, it's labelled as an Avengers title, and it's a good book, so I can live with it. I agree but can justify it now better than I could initially. Of the original 6 members, neither Dr. Strange, Professor X, nor Black Bolt had ever been Avengers so it made no sense at all. Now I'm a little more okay with it though based on the "Once an Avenger, always an Avenger" policy. Since Dr. Strange is now a member and Xavier is gone, with Cap in his place, that just leaves Black Bolt as the only non Avenger. They may as well just let him join and then the title will make sense. I know I've expressed concern about too many Avengers but at this point, what difference does one more make? Oh, and Bob, I haven't quite reached the point of not worrying about continuity yet. I can easily overlook small things. They've always been there, but the big things still really bug me. That's why I'm glad to hear that my questions regarding Cap and his gem were simply things I missed rather than errors. I'm enjoying this series so far and it's good to be buying something BECAUSE of the the writing and not DESPITE it. |
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Post by tomspasic on Jan 21, 2013 6:48:36 GMT -5
The second issue was pretty good. I'd still rather an Illuminati book be called "the Illuminati", as it has no more to do with the Avengers ("New" or otherwise), than it does the FF, or Inhumans or X-men. But there you are, it's labelled as an Avengers title, and it's a good book, so I can live with it. I agree but can justify it now better than I could initially. Of the original 6 members, neither Dr. Strange, Professor X, nor Black Bolt had ever been Avengers so it made no sense at all. Now I'm a little more okay with it though based on the "Once an Avenger, always an Avenger" policy. Since Dr. Strange is now a member and Xavier is gone, with Cap in his place, that just leaves Black Bolt as the only non Avenger. They may as well just let him join and then the title will make sense. I know I've expressed concern about too many Avengers but at this point, what difference does one more make? Yes, I eventually looked at the new illuminati lineup and realized that everyone except Black Bolt had been an Avenger by now. I guess I still resent the massive and stupid and pointless retcon the Illuminati originally was, and that is going to carry over somewhat. Had they just had this group (or the earlier one) form in the "present" to deal with stuff, I could have accepted it. Hell, after everything that's gone on in the last few years, it makes more sense to start it now than it did retconned onto the kree-skrull war. But anyway, Hickman seems to be winning me over bit by bit to a present day illumina- sorry, "new avengers" (and I still resent that name too...mumble..grumble..rassin frassin...) |
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Post by bobc on Jan 21, 2013 16:30:29 GMT -5
Hold on there guys--maybe I missed something, but I don't think Black Bolt, Dr. Strange or even Namor are Avengers in this book. I think these are just the characters Reed and T'Challa called together to fight this new threat. At least Hickman is making the whole dull concept of Illuminti interesting. Look at the bright side, Dr Strange seems to be restored as the world's top sorcerer, not that asinine Brother Voodoo, and Captain America is acting like captain America, and Namor is acting like Namor. It's as if Hickman is quietly undoing the damage Bendis did and is bringing the Avengers into a new era that takes a lot from the pre-Bendis Avengers. I am thrilled
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Post by humanbelly on Jan 21, 2013 16:56:09 GMT -5
Hey, real quick guys--
Is Bucky still Cap, then. . . or is Steve back to being Cap yet?
Biding my time w/ infinite patience. . .
HB
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Post by bobc on Jan 21, 2013 17:01:54 GMT -5
Captain America is Steve Rogers. Thank God.
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Post by humanbelly on Jan 21, 2013 18:54:30 GMT -5
Captain America is Steve Rogers. Thank God. Wow, thanks Bob-- It's. . . it's like our little world is suddenly emerging from a dark, reality-devouring oort cloud. . . HB |
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Post by tomspasic on Jan 21, 2013 18:57:49 GMT -5
Hold on there guys--maybe I missed something, but I don't think Black Bolt, Dr. Strange or even Namor are Avengers in this book. I think these are just the characters Reed and T'Challa called together to fight this new threat. At least Hickman is making the whole dull concept of Illuminti interesting. Look at the bright side, Dr Strange seems to be restored as the world's top sorcerer, not that asinine Brother Voodoo, and Captain America is acting like captain America, and Namor is acting like Namor. It's as if Hickman is quietly undoing the damage Bendis did and is bringing the Avengers into a new era that takes a lot from the pre-Bendis Avengers. I am thrilled It's certainly unclear in the NA book if they are calling themselves Avengers, or if they fall under the aegis of the Avengers organization. One suspects not, on either count. The point is, all have been Avengers at some point (except Black Bolt, and hey, by virtue of appearing in this book he probably counts now..), and once an Avenger, etc. etc. So technically, it is an avengers title, which answers my earlier quibbling about the title. Still been a good read so far, regardless of title or membership. |
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Post by Marvel Boy on Jan 24, 2013 15:55:50 GMT -5
If you take Steve and Tony's talk from Avengers about their need to expand, then perhaps they see this group as simply another asset of the Avengers thus the name New Avengers (even if the group is a secret)
Read the first two issues.....interesting. I never read Bendis' version of the group so I can't say anything over any differences Hickman may have made to the group but the group interactions in #2 was definitely interesting.
My only nitpick is, I'm not sure Cap would agree with how this group operates unless he is there to change that somehow. Cap is open, honest, and in your face not the hide-and-manipulate-from-the -shadows as this group is known to do.
Plus, can someone explain to me please if BP has gotten any powers upgrade? I'd never seen some of the moves he pulled in #1.
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Post by bobc on Jan 25, 2013 14:36:33 GMT -5
Boy what a big dummy I've been. There are actually two different Avengers comics, both written by Hickman (Apparently one is just Avengers and the other is New Avengers) and I thought they were both the same book. They both use the same Avengers logo, both have the same red strip across the bottom of the cover, and both have the Illuminati in them. This whole time I thought they were the same book!
Anyway, now that I stand corrected, The Black Panther has been given a power upgrade at the end of Hickman's--I don't have that issue because it was sold out by the time i got to the comic store. From what I read online, BP now has the abilities and knowledge of all the former Black Panthers. What this means exactly, I'm not sure. He has new weapons too (a force field, a teleporter).
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Post by Marvel Boy on Feb 9, 2013 10:39:08 GMT -5
Minor spoilers for #3 ahead.......
Well, so much for Cap being on the team. I'm glad in a way because his reasoning is a complete 180 degree turn from the accepted reasoning of the others. To Cap, choosing the lesser of two evils is still evil, so while everyone may not care how the MU is saved, Cap has to live with that decision and he wants it to be the right one.
Still, like every other decision this group has made, I think mind-wiping Cap will come back and bite them.
As for the Infinity Gems, there has to be some Hickman significance to the fact that the Time Gem apparently vanished instead of shattering. Plus, very interesting to see the three beings who noticed that the Gauntlet was remade.
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Post by tomspasic on Feb 9, 2013 12:26:59 GMT -5
#3 was another good read.
I've seen Cap get a lot of flack on other message boards for being reluctant to go down the "world destroying" path. I must admit I tend to side with him, whilst admitting that in a situation like that, every option needs to be considered.
There is a lot still to be explained, such as why destroying one planet (Earth) would stop two whole universes from colliding.
And I'm still a little bit pedantically peeved at the whole notion that infinity-1 could ever be anything other than infinity.
But in terms of a Big Threat, it certainly fills the bill nicely.
And the character works seems pretty good to me too. Cap seems in character, as do Tony and T'Challa. Reed is presented pretty consistant with Hickman's own FF stuff. Beast isn't fleshed out particularly, nor is Namor. But it is a big-ish cast, so one cannot expect everyone to get a lot of lines in every issue.
So far, Hickman continues to win me over. If he keeps this up he might make my Pantheon of Avengers writers (Thomas, Englehart and Busiek, if you wondered...).
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Post by bobc on Apr 1, 2013 14:18:57 GMT -5
I am absolutely loving this book--but I sort of have to wonder why Hickman needs to do two separate Avengers titles? They seem sort of connected, but not really. And the fact that both titles seem to be heading towards some enormous event is kind of confusing. Are they the same event?
If the two books are connected, I wish he'd get to that and move it forward. I also think he's making Namor a bit too much of an a-hole in hindsight. Namor's always at his best when he is morally ambiguous.
Minor gripes--overall I am very excited about New Avengers. And I like Uncanny Avengers and Secret Avengers
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Post by bobc on Jun 20, 2013 8:37:29 GMT -5
Issue 7 is out. Spoilers coming so stop reading this if you don't want to be spoiled.
The good news is that it is a very good issue and we almost never see the annoying gray bipolar alien girl (her whirling around and shrieking in anger was getting really tiresome), and there is some killer characterization between BP and Namor, and between Doctor Strange and Dr Doom.
HOWEVER!!!!!!
If you look at the cover which clearly shows Namor fighting the Black Panther, let it be known that no such battle occurs in this comic. It was really annoying but I had a premonition that Marvel would sell that fight but not deliver it. I'm sorry but I don't mind a little exaggeration on a cover, but this seems like a blatant lie. I was really looking forward to T'Challa carrying out his threat on Namor.
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Post by humanbelly on Jun 20, 2013 9:06:31 GMT -5
Issue 7 is out. Spoilers coming so stop reading this if you don't want to be spoiled. The good news is that it is a very good issue and we almost never see the annoying gray bipolar alien girl (her whirling around and shrieking in anger was getting really tiresome), and there is some killer characterization between BP and Namor, and between Doctor Strange and Dr Doom. HOWEVER!!!!!! If you look at the cover which clearly shows Namor fighting the Black Panther, let it be known that no such battle occurs in this comic. It was really annoying but I had a premonition that Marvel would sell that fight but not deliver it. I'm sorry but I don't mind a little exaggeration on a cover, but this seems like a blatant lie. I was really looking forward to T'Challa carrying out his threat on Namor. Wow, not to diss T'Challa, but given their relative power levels, how does that fight ever NOT end with Black Panther being reduced to Yesterdays News-? (Eco-friendly kitty litter, that is?) I mean, Namor is in the same class as Wonder-Man, Hercules, and the Thing, yes? Not that T'Challa would ever back down from that confrontation in a million years. . . HB |
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Post by Doctor Bong Crosby on Jun 20, 2013 14:46:03 GMT -5
Issue 7 is out. Spoilers coming so stop reading this if you don't want to be spoiled. The good news is that it is a very good issue and we almost never see the annoying gray bipolar alien girl (her whirling around and shrieking in anger was getting really tiresome), and there is some killer characterization between BP and Namor, and between Doctor Strange and Dr Doom. HOWEVER!!!!!! If you look at the cover which clearly shows Namor fighting the Black Panther, let it be known that no such battle occurs in this comic. It was really annoying but I had a premonition that Marvel would sell that fight but not deliver it. I'm sorry but I don't mind a little exaggeration on a cover, but this seems like a blatant lie. I was really looking forward to T'Challa carrying out his threat on Namor. Wow, not to diss T'Challa, but given their relative power levels, how does that fight ever NOT end with Black Panther being reduced to Yesterdays News-? (Eco-friendly kitty litter, that is?) I mean, Namor is in the same class as Wonder-Man, Hercules, and the Thing, yes? Not that T'Challa would ever back down from that confrontation in a million years. . . HB Well, with enough prep time... no, wait, that´s the BatGod, not BP... . But seriously, folks, BP has been given quite the power upgrade, lately, so I guess if we add his brains to the equation plus Namor´s hubris that should give BP more than a half-decent chance to carry out his promise to ol´"Fish-Man". |
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Post by spiderwasp on Jun 26, 2013 19:36:14 GMT -5
The book is okay. I'm not overwhelmed by it but I don't plan to drop it so...
My one big complaint, and I know this has been mentioned before so I'm jumping on someone else's bandwagon, is the wasted pages at the beginning. Even counting the front and back covers, there are only 16 pages (Front and back each). This includes ads. With a cover price of 3.99, I am paying .25 for each page. That means I paid the same price I paid for a whole comic book in the 70s for a sheet of paper that has credits on one side and the words "One Month Later..." on the other side (And nothing else -- not even a picture.) No matter what inflation has done, there's no denying that's a rip off.
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Post by humanbelly on Jun 29, 2013 21:29:11 GMT -5
The book is okay. I'm not overwhelmed by it but I don't plan to drop it so... My one big complaint, and I know this has been mentioned before so I'm jumping on someone else's bandwagon, is the wasted pages at the beginning. Even counting the front and back covers, there are only 16 pages (Front and back each). This includes ads. With a cover price of 3.99, I am paying .25 for each page. That means I paid the same price I paid for a whole comic book in the 70s for a sheet of paper that has credits on one side and the words "One Month Later..." on the other side (And nothing else -- not even a picture.) No matter what inflation has done, there's no denying that's a rip off. I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but it bears repeating- A couple of years ago, now, I was in my LCS, and overheard a rather loud discussion (it seems like these discussions in comic shops are always at unduly high-volume) between the proprietor and a customer. . . who was bemoaning the $4.00 cover prices. And the proprietor was USING the fact that the book "only" cost 25 cents per page as his SELLING POINT-! That, per page, it really is a bargain-! That may have been the last day I bought an issue off the racks. HB |
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