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Post by woodside on Nov 12, 2011 21:26:13 GMT -5
Finally had a chance to read the brilliant "Children's Crusade" # 7, and in this issue, it's revealed that . . . SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS After Jan reminded Wanda about her kids right before "disassembled," the Scarlet Witch went to Doctor Doom in the hopes of reviving them. Doom agreed to work with her and together, they summoned a powerful life-force . . . that subsequently possessed Wanda, increased her power levels, and was thus responsible for the destruction she caused during "Disassembled" and "House of M." There are still some sticking issues, such as Wanda's memory of the kids being erased after she had already had them restored in a previous storyline. Not to mention the fact that Doom was trapped in Hell around this period of time (although we can probably toy around with the timeline there, as per-Disassembled inter-book continuity is a little less cohesive than it is right now). I was very pleased to see this story development, especially since the life-force left Wanda. "Children's Crusade" is officially one of my favorite Marvel books in years and I hope the up-conclusion is just as awesome as the whole title has been.  So even if you're no longer reading the books, at least find peace in the fact that this helps absolve Wanda of her recent ugly deeds. |
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Post by ultron69 on Nov 14, 2011 12:39:03 GMT -5
Whew! Now they just need to work on retconning Tony Stark.
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Post by sharkar on Nov 14, 2011 20:04:33 GMT -5
I'm enjoying this series a lot. In this latest issue Wanda is very apologetic and she's more than willing to be punished for her actions--she's so freaking noble here!! It's great to see her interact with Pietro and Magneto; I like her connection with Doom; and yes, I know I've probably expressed this elsewhere on these boards, but wow--Cyclops is such a dick!
Speaking of Magneto I'm also enjoying X-Men: Legacy, another comic he's been appearing in--he's shown in X-M:L with his other daughter, Lorrna (Polaris).
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Post by humanbelly on Nov 16, 2011 20:45:48 GMT -5
I know I've probably expressed this elsewhere on these boards, but wow--Cyclops is such a dick! Oh my Sainted Uncle-! Shar, that is SO unbelievably funny! Not. . . a phrase I'd normally expect you to be the source of, but- Ha!- part of being literate, insightful, analytical, and well-spoken is the ability to recognize when the right words are. . . the right words, eh? Regardless of their high (or low) origins. Boy, right to the bone, too. No "He's had such a tragic life", or "He bears such a burden of responsibility" or "He's just shy"-- nope. Just a quick, apt, lightly brutal summation of the guy's interpersonal value. . . and we move on. Heh. Really brightened my day-! (Man, I've always liked Scott a lot, too. . . ah, well. . . ) HB HB |
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Post by sharkar on Nov 18, 2011 12:08:41 GMT -5
Heh. Really brightened my day-! Glad to have been of service, HB.  |
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Post by woodside on Nov 20, 2011 9:59:12 GMT -5
Whew! Now they just need to work on retconning Tony Stark. Didn't they? Kinda? When they rebooted his brain? |
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Post by freedomfighter on Nov 22, 2011 13:32:03 GMT -5
They also brought back the Vision in Avengers #19 in a very dull return...so at least there's hope for a reunion...  |
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Post by Ignore Me! on Nov 22, 2011 16:58:50 GMT -5
Oooooh! Vision!
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Post by starfoxxx on Nov 22, 2011 17:10:22 GMT -5
Nice to see the Vision back. Can't wait for a legitimate writer like Gage or Abnett/Lanning to write a story with Vizh.
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Post by humanbelly on Nov 23, 2011 6:25:22 GMT -5
Boy, that's nice to see. Haven't read the book, though. Will it be enough to pull ol' HB back in as a reader? Don't know. The one panel here plays it off as a bit. . . casual? Is that the word? Tony's self-congratulatory jerkishness, however, does have a certain eye-rollingly realistic tone. I do like that.
HB
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BigDuke
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 136
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Post by BigDuke on Nov 23, 2011 12:07:56 GMT -5
It's great to have both of these characters back (un-dis-assembled if you will), and I hope a decent writer gets hold of them going forward. I liked these characters a lot back in the day, and hope to be able to enjoy them again.
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Post by goldenfist on Nov 23, 2011 17:59:18 GMT -5
Looks like Tony finally made an effort to rebuild Vision.
Marvel is also making a new Masters of Evil team and three
members have been revealed so far.
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Post by freedomfighter on Nov 23, 2011 22:36:20 GMT -5
You know after I posted the Vision image I kept wondering why it was bothering me so and I finally figured it out. The Vision really just looks like some guy in a costume. When Buscema, Adams, Colan Perez and even Heck drew him, there was always something cold in the eyes, something very sharp and narrow about his features that made him a bit more otherworldly.
Here, he just looks like a guy in a costume.
I'm also going to assume that Tony very delicately and compassionately told the Vision how the synthezoid's own ex-wife callously manipulated the events that caused his near complete destruction and inactivity for the last year of marvel time or whatever its been...
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Post by humanbelly on Nov 25, 2011 7:03:13 GMT -5
You know after I posted the Vision image I kept wondering why it was bothering me so and I finally figured it out. The Vision really just looks like some guy in a costume. When Buscema, Adams, Colan Perez and even Heck drew him, there was always something cold in the eyes, something very sharp and narrow about his features that made him a bit more otherworldly. Here, he just looks like a guy in a costume. It's the unconventional nature of this artist/artwork, I think. I'm not liking it at all-- don't think it's well-suited to this genre. It reads as watercolors done in an Impressionistic style, or something (outside of my field of knowledge, I must confess). Muddy, shadowy, colors are washed out--- "soft"-looking. I wish I could articulate it better. But look at Spidey- his comparatively garish colors and lack of fabric wrinkles make him look like he was cut & pasted into the picture from another drawing. Also looks like he's floating above the grass (inconsistent shadows on the ground). The overall visual sense is one of being "natural" without actually being cleanly "realistic". And it just doesn't suit Vizh well at all. Hmm-- and Tony and Stephen could be exactly the same person, if you trimmed Tony's goatee. . . [quoteI'm also going to assume that Tony very delicately and compassionately told the Vision how the synthezoid's own ex-wife callously manipulated the events that caused his near complete destruction and inactivity for the last year of marvel time or whatever its been...[/quote] Well, one would hope. I guess the other problem is that the whole offhanded tone he's assuming here (both in words and in his cocky physical stance) is wildly inappropriate to the situation (even for Tony) given the weight that Vision's loss should have carried for all of the folks that knew him the longest. Which-- hunh-- isn't anyone in that panel except Tony, come to think of it. But, I really should reserve harsher criticism on that score until I've managed to read the issue. That's only fair. Is this still BMB, I assume? HB |
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Post by freedomfighter on Nov 26, 2011 14:29:45 GMT -5
You know after I posted the Vision image I kept wondering why it was bothering me so and I finally figured it out. The Vision really just looks like some guy in a costume. When Buscema, Adams, Colan Perez and even Heck drew him, there was always something cold in the eyes, something very sharp and narrow about his features that made him a bit more otherworldly. Here, he just looks like a guy in a costume. It's the unconventional nature of this artist/artwork, I think. I'm not liking it at all-- don't think it's well-suited to this genre. It reads as watercolors done in an Impressionistic style, or something (outside of my field of knowledge, I must confess). Muddy, shadowy, colors are washed out--- "soft"-looking. I wish I could articulate it better. But look at Spidey- his comparatively garish colors and lack of fabric wrinkles make him look like he was cut & pasted into the picture from another drawing. Also looks like he's floating above the grass (inconsistent shadows on the ground). The overall visual sense is one of being "natural" without actually being cleanly "realistic". And it just doesn't suit Vizh well at all. Hmm-- and Tony and Stephen could be exactly the same person, if you trimmed Tony's goatee. . . [quoteI'm also going to assume that Tony very delicately and compassionately told the Vision how the synthezoid's own ex-wife callously manipulated the events that caused his near complete destruction and inactivity for the last year of marvel time or whatever its been... Well, one would hope. I guess the other problem is that the whole offhanded tone he's assuming here (both in words and in his cocky physical stance) is wildly inappropriate to the situation (even for Tony) given the weight that Vision's loss should have carried for all of the folks that knew him the longest. Which-- hunh-- isn't anyone in that panel except Tony, come to think of it. But, I really should reserve harsher criticism on that score until I've managed to read the issue. That's only fair. Is this still BMB, I assume? HB[/quote] It is still Bendis and there is absolutely minimal context as to what happened to the Vision before. Bendis has taken his liberties with Avengers stories to new heights, he's now even ignoring his own part works... I read the issue on the stands and feel perfectly comfortable in saying that the Vision's return is done with the merest whimper and virtually no bang... And the art, man the art is just bad. Iron Fist's mask looks like a helmet. Is it a helmet now because that would at least explain why he no longer has eye holes, but instead giant white space like Spider Man. Jessica Jones looks like a bad clown painting, someone either artist or colorist needs a crash course on what a woman wearing makeup looks like. But the centerpiece of the page Vision, looks bored and average. Look I did an image search on bing: www.bing.com/images/search?q=the+vision+marvel&FORM=BIFDThere's some sort of consistency there- he looks cold, sleek, dark, menacing. There's intrigue there and that kind of artistic legacy fits a character well, and the characters around him as well- it adds layers to the universe they walk through. |
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Post by goldenfist on Nov 28, 2011 15:42:58 GMT -5
If anyone has read Avengers #19 there are two characters who
went back to Luke's New Avengers.
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Post by woodside on Dec 6, 2011 22:44:44 GMT -5
. . .Vision how the synthezoid's own ex-wife callously manipulated the events that caused his near complete destruction and inactivity for the last year of marvel time or whatever its been... Did you read the first post in the thread? Wasn't completely her fault. |
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Post by woodside on Dec 6, 2011 22:46:20 GMT -5
Ugh, and that art is awful! Jessica looks like her eyes are about to pop out of her sockets!
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Post by freedomfighter on Dec 7, 2011 9:53:07 GMT -5
. . .Vision how the synthezoid's own ex-wife callously manipulated the events that caused his near complete destruction and inactivity for the last year of marvel time or whatever its been... Did you read the first post in the thread? Wasn't completely her fault. I dunno, from what I read it's still her fault. "hey guys I want to bring my never existed kids back so I'm going to go to an evil dictator who takes over the world on a weekly basis, and just tried to kill the FF because he hates Reed Richards for...I don't even know why anymore, he just does. And we might unleash a powerful energy force with immense power that could do something crazy like take me over and make me do bad things, but that wouldn't be MY fault, right? Phoenix, you'll back me up on that one, right?" Tampering with forces beyond one's control for self interest, makes you responsible for the outcome in my book... |
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Post by woodside on Dec 8, 2011 9:15:05 GMT -5
Did you read the first post in the thread? Wasn't completely her fault. I dunno, from what I read it's still her fault. "hey guys I want to bring my never existed kids back so I'm going to go to an evil dictator who takes over the world on a weekly basis, and just tried to kill the FF because he hates Reed Richards for...I don't even know why anymore, he just does. And we might unleash a powerful energy force with immense power that could do something crazy like take me over and make me do bad things, but that wouldn't be MY fault, right? Phoenix, you'll back me up on that one, right?" Tampering with forces beyond one's control for self interest, makes you responsible for the outcome in my book... Crap! I had a nice, long, well-written response to this -- and then the computer ate it. The long and short of it: the mini-series isn't done yet, so we might get a better understanding of the circumstances. |
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Post by freedomfighter on Dec 9, 2011 15:09:45 GMT -5
I dunno, from what I read it's still her fault. "hey guys I want to bring my never existed kids back so I'm going to go to an evil dictator who takes over the world on a weekly basis, and just tried to kill the FF because he hates Reed Richards for...I don't even know why anymore, he just does. And we might unleash a powerful energy force with immense power that could do something crazy like take me over and make me do bad things, but that wouldn't be MY fault, right? Phoenix, you'll back me up on that one, right?" Tampering with forces beyond one's control for self interest, makes you responsible for the outcome in my book... Crap! I had a nice, long, well-written response to this -- and then the computer ate it. The long and short of it: the mini-series isn't done yet, so we might get a better understanding of the circumstances. I'm sure it was an eloquent and marvelous reply, but unless Wanda's kids have some greater purpose in the universe, beyond her own want and need to have them back, then she's doing this for the wrong reasons. She's conspiring with a mad dictator, who despite the occasional lapse into morality has done stuff like kill his own subjects for no other reasons than he can. Wanda tapped into a powerful force because she heartbreakingly missed her kids, who by most accounts, don't really exist- they're a manifestation of her power and some other power she tapped into- at least according to everything I've ever read (it's probably retconned at this point...). I won't argue that they're not human,they're the Vision's kids after all, so they could never be fully human, but bringing persons back from the seemingly dead or non-existence is a very tricky concept, and while it happens from time to time through some manipulation of events, it shouldn't be allowable. I mean why didn't Wanda bring back Scott Lang too? Bet his daughter misses him. Should Cassie go to Dr. Doom and get his help to tap into that power. wanda should help as it is her fault to a degree. And what about Jack of Hearts,the power Wanda tapped into restored him, couldn't it do it again? They both deserve their chance to live again too. I appreciate that Wanda is on the side of the angels again- I don't like Bendis and Heinberg deciding that losing her kids made her into a) a raving lunatic several years back and then b) the revised version who tampered with forces beyond her control and less actively still ended up hurting practically every one she loved. I think in order to redeem a character they need to be pursuing a greater good than their own self interest. |
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Post by ultron69 on Dec 14, 2011 15:11:20 GMT -5
Whew! Now they just need to work on retconning Tony Stark. Didn't they? Kinda? When they rebooted his brain? Yeah, I guess you're right. I lost track of all the retcons. |
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Post by woodside on Feb 19, 2012 20:24:05 GMT -5
Crap! I had a nice, long, well-written response to this -- and then the computer ate it. The long and short of it: the mini-series isn't done yet, so we might get a better understanding of the circumstances. I'm sure it was an eloquent and marvelous reply, but unless Wanda's kids have some greater purpose in the universe, beyond her own want and need to have them back, then she's doing this for the wrong reasons. She's conspiring with a mad dictator, who despite the occasional lapse into morality has done stuff like kill his own subjects for no other reasons than he can. Wanda tapped into a powerful force because she heartbreakingly missed her kids, who by most accounts, don't really exist- they're a manifestation of her power and some other power she tapped into- at least according to everything I've ever read (it's probably retconned at this point...). I won't argue that they're not human,they're the Vision's kids after all, so they could never be fully human, but bringing persons back from the seemingly dead or non-existence is a very tricky concept, and while it happens from time to time through some manipulation of events, it shouldn't be allowable. I mean why didn't Wanda bring back Scott Lang too? Bet his daughter misses him. Should Cassie go to Dr. Doom and get his help to tap into that power. wanda should help as it is her fault to a degree. And what about Jack of Hearts,the power Wanda tapped into restored him, couldn't it do it again? They both deserve their chance to live again too. I appreciate that Wanda is on the side of the angels again- I don't like Bendis and Heinberg deciding that losing her kids made her into a) a raving lunatic several years back and then b) the revised version who tampered with forces beyond her control and less actively still ended up hurting practically every one she loved. I think in order to redeem a character they need to be pursuing a greater good than their own self interest. The latest issue dealt with this pretty thoroughly. Just FYI. |
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