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Loeb
Jun 11, 2009 15:56:19 GMT -5
Post by bobc on Jun 11, 2009 15:56:19 GMT -5
Hey Guys--how do you feel about Loeb's tenure at Marvel so far? I mean besides his disastrous run on Ultimates?
The reason I ask is I just picked up the latest issue of Ultimatum or whatever the hell it is--and Loeb has Sabertooth biting the angels wings off as the Angel's eyes roll back in his head. Then he has Valkyrie/Thor girl/whoever-the-hell-she-is chopping off Magneto's arm.
And last but not least, Loeb has Nick Fury, leader of SHIELD calling Reed Richards and company "bung-holes."
Is this guy mentally deficient or something? I mean seriously--is this guy just off, mentally? He looks about 50 or so, but some of the stuff he puts in comics gives me the creeps, but not in a good way. I'm no prude--but I think this guy is crossing a line.
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Loeb
Jun 11, 2009 16:26:51 GMT -5
Post by freedomfighter on Jun 11, 2009 16:26:51 GMT -5
I'm not gonna comment because some people get bent out of shape when you criticize current marvel work. however when Loeb worked on Heroes and the quality suffered, he was fired from the show. If a comic he's working on does poorly he just gets another job. Why do people constantly fail upwards in the comics industry??
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Loeb
Jun 11, 2009 16:49:32 GMT -5
Post by bobc on Jun 11, 2009 16:49:32 GMT -5
This is an opinion forum, Freedom. I have spent tens of thousands of dollars on Marvel and I'm sure you have too--so whoever doesn't like it, doesn't have to read it.
The people in my office here were just talking about people who "fail upwards" in the video game field. It is universal in this genre.
I've been reading comics a long time and seen the good, bad and mediocre--but Loeb is the only writer who has creeped me out, unintentionally. I felt the same way when he wrote Ultimates--some of those "romantic scenes" between Thor and his girlfriend made me feel like I'd downloaded kiddie porn.
Maybe I'm just an old man but I think comics should have some decency. As film director John Waters once said "There is good bad taste, and bad bad taste. You have to have really good taste to appreciate good bad taste."
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Loeb
Jun 11, 2009 17:01:44 GMT -5
Post by humanbelly on Jun 11, 2009 17:01:44 GMT -5
John Waters said that?? Yikes!
I. . . I know I'm going to seem like a major doofo, here, but- are William Messner Loeb and Jeph Loeb different people? Or the same person? Or related? Seems like a very unusual surname, and for it to be shared by two different comic book writers. . .
HB
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Loeb
Jun 11, 2009 18:02:00 GMT -5
Post by woodside on Jun 11, 2009 18:02:00 GMT -5
Loeb used to be really great writer. Back in the 90s, he had a strong run on both X-Force and Cable, and contributed to some good X-Men stories. Gambit/Wolverine: Victims, Batman: The Long Halloween, Batman: Dark Victory, Superman: For All Seasons, Daredevil: Yellow, and Spider-Man: Blue are all good examples of his ability as a writer. Even Hulk: Gray and Superman/Batman were decent. Not good, but decent. Superman/Batman was fun, at least. And Onslaught Reborn, for all its stupidity, was fun too. But honestly? His more recent stuff has just sucked. His run on Wolverine, Ultimates, and Ultimatium have just been horrible. He's also been heavily critized for his Hulk run, too. The first season of Heroes was fantastic; seasons two and three were gawful. It's hard to say what exactly had gone wrong. He lost his son to cancer a few years ago, which may be a contributing factor.
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Loeb
Jun 11, 2009 19:13:27 GMT -5
Post by sharkar on Jun 11, 2009 19:13:27 GMT -5
The people in my office here were just talking about people who "fail upwards" in the video game field. It is universal in this genre. Ha ;D...this unfortunate practice is also rampant in the decidedly non-creative business world, too. At least, if you go by the office I work at... I. . . I know I'm going to seem like a major doofo, here, but- are William Messner Loeb and Jeph Loeb different people? Or the same person? Or related? Seems like a very unusual surname, and for it to be shared by two different comic book writers. . . HB, I believe it's William Messner-Loeb s. So a different surname (and no relation in any case.) But Jeph's daughter Audrey has done some work for Marvel...
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Loeb
Jun 11, 2009 20:15:24 GMT -5
Post by bobc on Jun 11, 2009 20:15:24 GMT -5
well I'm sorry his son died of cancer--I didn't know that. That is horrible. I mean that sincerely.
Anyway--I was actually enjoying this issue of Ultimatum--Finch's art is beautiful as usual--but when Nick Fury said "I was wondering when you bungholes would show up" I could just feel my mental tires screeching to an unceremonious halt! If Beevis and Butthead had said it, I wouldn't have batted an eye. But Nick Fury? Come on. That is just stupid, vulgar and unnecessary.
And this whole dismemberment/cannibalism is getting to be every issue with this guy. What the hell is going on? I really don't want to see the Wasp or the Angel eaten. Is this what constitutes storytelling?
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Loeb
Jun 11, 2009 20:52:23 GMT -5
Post by humanbelly on Jun 11, 2009 20:52:23 GMT -5
well I'm sorry his son died of cancer--I didn't know that. That is horrible. I mean that sincerely. Anyway--I was actually enjoying this issue of Ultimatum--Finch's art is beautiful as usual--but when Nick Fury said "I was wondering when you bungholes would show up" I could just feel my mental tires screeching to an unceremonious halt! If Beevis and Butthead had said it, I wouldn't have batted an eye. But Nick Fury? Come on. That is just stupid, vulgar and unnecessary. And this whole dismemberment/cannibalism is getting to be every issue with this guy. What the hell is going on? I really don't want to see the Wasp or the Angel eaten. Is this what constitutes storytelling? Y'know, you hesitate to point to such an awful loss as the reason for this kind of twist to a writer's style and tone, but. . . but. . . I can't imagine how it wouldn't have some kind of effect like that. I mean, doesn't this seem like very real rage, and pain, and despair he's giving voice to? But, man, there are truly times when the show shouldn't go on. . . HB
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Loeb
Jun 12, 2009 4:01:55 GMT -5
Post by Shiryu on Jun 12, 2009 4:01:55 GMT -5
I haven't read any of his most recent staff (fortunately, it seems ^^). The latest I saw was his Superman/Batman run, which was ok. But yeah, what Bobc describes seems pretty awful stuff.
I keep myself well away from any Ultimate product. The only one I briefly glanced had Hawkeye impaling Black Widow and then killing her with an arrow in the forehead, which was enough to make me put it back on the shelf.
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Loeb
Jun 12, 2009 8:16:26 GMT -5
Post by bobc on Jun 12, 2009 8:16:26 GMT -5
I suppose it's all in how the gore is handled. I think Millar pulls it off with some class and it never seemed gratuitous to me. Sometimes it was funny--like when he did The Authority. But when Loeb does it he seems to over-do it and handle it in a low class way. Also--I saw Millar's Ultimates as a very distinct, separate thing to the mainstream Marvel Universe, so I didn't mind him killing off a character or two. But now the Ultimate Universe seems to have swallowed the old Marvel and there's very little distinction between the two. Oh well nothing lasts forever
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Loeb
Jun 12, 2009 17:29:33 GMT -5
Post by starfoxxx on Jun 12, 2009 17:29:33 GMT -5
I'm enjoying the Hulk.
As I've stated before, it's definitely a guilty pleasure, but a fun read nonetheless.
Ultimates 3 almost made me throw up (I love Ultimates 1 and 2), what a disappointment.
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Loeb
Jun 12, 2009 19:46:37 GMT -5
Post by woodside on Jun 12, 2009 19:46:37 GMT -5
I suppose it's all in how the gore is handled. I think Millar pulls it off with some class and it never seemed gratuitous to me. Sometimes it was funny--like when he did The Authority. But when Loeb does it he seems to over-do it and handle it in a low class way. Also--I saw Millar's Ultimates as a very distinct, separate thing to the mainstream Marvel Universe, so I didn't mind him killing off a character or two. But now the Ultimate Universe seems to have swallowed the old Marvel and there's very little distinction between the two. Oh well nothing lasts forever Loeb is trying so hard to be the American Mark Millar . . . but is failing badly.
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Loeb
Jun 15, 2009 9:25:46 GMT -5
Post by dlw66 on Jun 15, 2009 9:25:46 GMT -5
I haven't read any of his most recent staff (fortunately, it seems ^^). The latest I saw was his Superman/Batman run, which was ok. But yeah, what Bobc describes seems pretty awful stuff. Agreed on all points.
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Loeb
Jun 15, 2009 13:05:43 GMT -5
Post by bobc on Jun 15, 2009 13:05:43 GMT -5
I think you're right, Woodside. To me, Loeb really is an old school writer in the sense that Busiek is old school (not saying he's as good, he just writes in a similar vein)--pretty conventional super hero stories. When he sticks to that, I like what he does (The Defenders vs the Offenders is okay, kinda fun). But he always has to throw in dismemberment or cannabalism or vulgar curse words or what appears to be underage sex--and it just comes off desperate to me.
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