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Post by freedomfighter on Feb 10, 2009 12:20:01 GMT -5
Went to the big NYC Comic Con and picked up a bunch of old books for a buck apiece (heaven for late 70s-80s collector like myself) and got a storyline that I'd never read but always wanted to- Marvel Team Up 41-44, featuring Scarlet Witch, Vision, Dr. Doom and Moondragon against Cottom Mather and the Dark Rider in a time travel yarn.
Most interesting surprise was that Wanda was possessed once again and used as a helpless pawn or turned evil for about the millionth time. I recall Chthon of course, Immortus, Xandu, I recall another story with John Kowalski but that may not fit the bill...but I know it's happened a LOT.
Anybody else recall them before I start looking through the long boxes?
I'm interested to see how often she's been manipulated against her will like that because after she went bat sh*t crazy in Disassembled, it might have been my first guess that maybe someone took her over because it's happened so many friggin times...
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Post by starfoxxx on Feb 10, 2009 16:54:17 GMT -5
I dunno, ff, but I know Wanda's had alot of encounters with the Serpent Crown ,(Avengers #147, a Marvel 2-in-1, and i can't remember if she was a Bride of Set in Atlantis Attacks.)
I just don't know if she was actually possessed by the Serpent Crown. I can't remember if she ever actually wore it.
Other than that, I'm drawing blanks.
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Post by freedomfighter on Feb 14, 2009 15:38:52 GMT -5
the serpent crown! of course forgot all about that. and it happened more than once too. (in the Avengers and in Marvel Two in One)...
she was also taken over by "that which endures", which marked the first of two wanda takeovers during Byrne's reign as WCA writer. Hmm, Dark Wanda two times in a row, Byrne? Methinks someone ran out of ideas rather quickly...
More to come, guaranteed as Wanda possessed seemed to be the easiest plot that some subpar writers could come up with...
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Post by betaraybill on Feb 15, 2009 12:59:57 GMT -5
I remember a story were the villain attempted to brainwash her but I can't recall who, what or when other than: Wanda was placed on a type of operating table, hooked up to the big bad brainwashing machine and left alone while it did it's job. She resisted by concentrating on her name and who she was. Occassionally the story would check in on her and each time one of her fingers (which were each hooked into the machine??) was loose. Ultimately she broke free and the rest is history.
Does anyone know when this happened? Now it's really bugging me!
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Post by sharkar on Feb 15, 2009 20:59:58 GMT -5
I remember a story were the villain attempted to brainwash her but I can't recall who, what or when other than: Wanda was placed on a type of operating table, hooked up to the big bad brainwashing machine and left alone while it did it's job. She resisted by concentrating on her name and who she was. Occassionally the story would check in on her and each time one of her fingers (which were each hooked into the machine??) was loose. Ultimately she broke free and the rest is history. Does anyone know when this happened? Now it's really bugging me! This occurred in the first issue of the Vision and Scarlet Witch limited series (the second V&SW series, written by Englehart). |
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Post by freedomfighter on Feb 15, 2009 23:13:40 GMT -5
I remember a story were the villain attempted to brainwash her but I can't recall who, what or when other than: Wanda was placed on a type of operating table, hooked up to the big bad brainwashing machine and left alone while it did it's job. She resisted by concentrating on her name and who she was. Occassionally the story would check in on her and each time one of her fingers (which were each hooked into the machine??) was loose. Ultimately she broke free and the rest is history. Does anyone know when this happened? Now it's really bugging me! This occurred in the first issue of the Vision and Scarlet Witch limited series (the second V&SW series, written by Englehart). Someone failed to take over the Scarlet Witch? Man, what a loser. Mindwiping Wanda is easier than putt putt golf... |
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Post by freedomfighter on Feb 18, 2009 0:49:36 GMT -5
confirmed: wanda was also a mind controlled bride of set. closing in on double digits now...
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Post by Tana Nile on Feb 18, 2009 11:04:19 GMT -5
I'm guessing that generally, you'd find a lot of female characters have been mind-controlled or possessed. Certainly ones created in the 60s. Also, any characters coming into contact with John Byrne. Besides what he did with Wanda, he was a co-creator of the Phoenix, and he also had Sue Richards become Malice (and he gave her a mullet). But Wanda has definitely seen more than her share.
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Post by dlw66 on Feb 18, 2009 12:43:29 GMT -5
Certainly ones created in the 60s. Also, any characters coming into contact with John Byrne. Besides what he did with Wanda, he was a co-creator of the Phoenix No argument on Byrne's treatment (seemingly over and over and over) of Marvel's main women. However, I think Dave Cockrum should be given credit for creating Phoenix. After Stan and Jack created Jean Grey in the first place, that is. |
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Post by Dr. Hank Pym on Feb 19, 2009 23:20:12 GMT -5
confirmed: wanda was also a mind controlled bride of set. closing in on double digits now... That was in one of the West Coast annuals. I remember it for the "Rate the Hunks" segment, certainly one of my favorite stories of all time!! ;D |
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Post by Tana Nile on Feb 20, 2009 12:41:07 GMT -5
Certainly ones created in the 60s. Also, any characters coming into contact with John Byrne. Besides what he did with Wanda, he was a co-creator of the Phoenix No argument on Byrne's treatment (seemingly over and over and over) of Marvel's main women. However, I think Dave Cockrum should be given credit for creating Phoenix. After Stan and Jack created Jean Grey in the first place, that is. I should have stated that Byrne was co-creator of Dark Phoenix. Certainly Cockrum developed the Phoenix character with Claremont. But I think Byrne had a lot of input into her becoming Dark Phoenix. Sorry if that was unclear. |
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Post by dlw66 on Feb 20, 2009 13:13:26 GMT -5
I should have stated that Byrne was co-creator of Dark Phoenix. Certainly Cockrum developed the Phoenix character with Claremont. But I think Byrne had a lot of input into her becoming Dark Phoenix. Sorry if that was unclear. You said. I heard. Isn't electronic communication great??  And please don't think I was questioning your comics knowledge (which is on a galactic scale!) -- I was merely giving our young bucks a history lesson/clarification... |
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Post by betaraybill on Feb 20, 2009 17:53:49 GMT -5
I remember a story were the villain attempted to brainwash her but I can't recall who, what or when other than: Wanda was placed on a type of operating table, hooked up to the big bad brainwashing machine and left alone while it did it's job. She resisted by concentrating on her name and who she was. Occassionally the story would check in on her and each time one of her fingers (which were each hooked into the machine??) was loose. Ultimately she broke free and the rest is history. Does anyone know when this happened? Now it's really bugging me! This occurred in the first issue of the Vision and Scarlet Witch limited series (the second V&SW series, written by Englehart). Thanks Shakar. |
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Post by Tana Nile on Feb 21, 2009 9:55:47 GMT -5
I should have stated that Byrne was co-creator of Dark Phoenix. Certainly Cockrum developed the Phoenix character with Claremont. But I think Byrne had a lot of input into her becoming Dark Phoenix. Sorry if that was unclear. You said. I heard. Isn't electronic communication great?? And please don't think I was questioning your comics knowledge (which is on a galactic scale!) -- I was merely giving our young bucks a history lesson/clarification... No problem, DL. It's important that we have clarity!  And I find it somewhat amusing that now, over in Mighty Avengers, it's Wanda's brother who is apparently being possessed! About time!! |
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Post by freedomfighter on Feb 21, 2009 12:40:36 GMT -5
You said. I heard. Isn't electronic communication great?? And please don't think I was questioning your comics knowledge (which is on a galactic scale!) -- I was merely giving our young bucks a history lesson/clarification... No problem, DL. It's important that we have clarity! And I find it somewhat amusing that now, over in Mighty Avengers, it's Wanda's brother who is apparently being possessed! About time!! I'm fairly sure that Slott is going to give Chthon or some other source at least part of the blame as to Wanda's acts during disassembled. It's probably something to do with the twins mutant powers and being born on Wundagore and the fact that their powers seem to ebb and flow over the years. There's a lot to play with there... But to clarify, just about every hero gets taken over, but Wanda almost never seems to fight it or break it. In fact she almost seems kind of complacent in most of these situations. That's part of what bugs me. |
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Post by sharkar on Feb 23, 2009 19:42:54 GMT -5
This occurred in the first issue of the Vision and Scarlet Witch limited series (the second V&SW series, written by Englehart). Thanks Shakar. Bill, you described the events well so I knew exactly which issue you were referring to.  |
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Post by sharkar on Feb 23, 2009 20:20:30 GMT -5
I'm fairly sure that Slott is going to give Chthon or some other source at least part of the blame as to Wanda's acts during disassembled. It's probably something to do with the twins mutant powers and being born on Wundagore and the fact that their powers seem to ebb and flow over the years. There's a lot to play with there... Sure, that makes sense and that's certainly been the case in the past; Chthon has been inserted as a retcon to explain events as far back as Avengers #30, when the twins all of a sudden noticed their powers waning and left active duty for about half a dozen issues. But to clarify, just about every hero gets taken over, but Wanda almost never seems to fight it or break it. In fact she almost seems kind of complacent in most of these situations. That's part of what bugs me. It doesn't bother me, because it's consistent with how I've always seen Wanda's basic characterization: she's a very vulnerable, frangible person. I see her this way because my overall image of her was established back around the time of the Silver Age Avengers-X-Men crossover (Avengers #47-49 and #53, X-Men #43-45), when she was grazed by a bullet (Magneto's doing) and then she wandered around in a daze, dependent on Pietro and Magneto. She's especially pathetic in X-Men #43 and Avengers #53. So, as ff noted, while other characters have been brainwashed/possessed over the years, including Pietro (and more than once by Maximus), Wanda to me has always had that extreme vulnerability in her nature. It makes sense to me that she would be more susceptible than some other characters. I think the cover of Avengers #185 perfectly illustrates how I see the twins' lot in life: they're beset upon, but Pietro's defiant...while Wanda's to the side, covered up, in need of protection. (And I wish the recently-released "Nights of Wundagore" tpb had used this image as the cover, instead of #187's cover, even though #187 has more Avengers on it).  |
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Post by sharkar on Feb 24, 2009 10:31:44 GMT -5
...she's a very vulnerable, frangible person. Since I just mentioned the Enchantress/Valkyrie in another thread, it reminds me that Wanda actually showed a lot of fortitude in shaking off Amora's hold in Avengers #83 --something not accomplished by Jan, Natasha or Medusa. So I do think she is capable of strength at times, but her overall her basic character is one of vulnerability (IMO, of course!). |
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