Doctor Bong
Reservist Avenger
Master of belly dancing (no, really...)!
Posts: 167
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Post by Doctor Bong on Jul 28, 2008 20:43:18 GMT -5
How do you rate the Sub-Mariner as an avenger, on the scale from 1 to 8 points?
How well does he work for you within the dynamics of the team?
How much do you like/dislike him as a character?
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Post by Tana Nile on Jul 28, 2008 22:09:00 GMT -5
I like Subby, but I've always enjoyed him the most when he is acting as a catalyst to others - in other words, saying exactly what he thinks and not giving a d**n. I have never seen him as a great team player -he is far too driven by self-interest, which I think is the reason he straddles the hero/villain line so much. His time in the Invaders makes sense, based on that idea (fighting the Axis was beneficial for him). He came and went with the Defenders as he pleased. I never really bought his time with the Avengers. I believe he was supposed to be in one of his saner states (something to do with that whole 'oxygen poisoning' or whatever it was) during that era, but it still never rang true.
His great power is a welcome addition, but other than for short periods, I can't see Namor as a great Avenger. I gave him a 3.
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Post by woodside on Jul 28, 2008 22:26:25 GMT -5
Big fan of Namor and I think he fits in well with the Avengers.
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Post by scottharris on Jul 28, 2008 23:34:00 GMT -5
I went with a five. Namor joined the Avengers right after I started reading, so this was my introduction to the character. As such, he always seemed like a perfectly fine fit to me, and I enjoyed his time with the team. Of course, I understand the objections others have to him on the team, and perhaps if I had been an older reader his membership would have struck me as weird.
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Post by freedomfighter on Jul 29, 2008 9:48:54 GMT -5
I guess I'm using a different scale than most of you are.
My criteria are a) does this character bring something to the Avengers they don't have?
b) do they bring their own interesting background that is dissimilar to other members of the team?
c) do they act as a springboard for all kinds of interesting stories?
d) do this person have a unique personality and bring conflict to the team?
For me, Sub Mariner brings high marks in every one of these categories. Every single one. One of marvel's best characters, so he gets an eight from me. The conflict he brought with him, the friendship he and Hercules struck, and the way Stern explored the legacy of Namor were all great parts of his tenure with the team.
Later issues with heavy metal and marrina gone wild were not so good, but I don't blame the character for bad writing...
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Post by spiderwasp on Jul 29, 2008 9:54:12 GMT -5
5. I was actually surprised at the time how well Namor fit with the team and how much I enjoyed his character. His membership was a turning point for me that made me start to like the character. I never really had thought of him as much more than just another villain previously.
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Post by starfoxxx on Jul 29, 2008 16:56:29 GMT -5
I gave Namor a 3. Like the Thing, Namor has great history with the Avengers. I consider him a legitimate member (moreso than Thing, the Richardss, Moon Knight, or Mar-Vell, for example) but his membership was not as exciting/remarkable as his guest-appearances, IMO.
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Jul 29, 2008 21:16:33 GMT -5
I thought he was a weird addition at the time, and I was only like 10 or 12, I think. But now having read all but a few issues of volume I, I think he was one of the greatest Avengers of all time, so gave him a 7. If one of the purposes of the Avengers is to feature Marvel's greatest hereoes, then he is a perfect fit. He is, after all, one of the oldest Marvel characters, and one of the more powerful Earthlings. His membership came at a time when he was sort of seeking atonement for past crimes, so it was good for him, at that time. Stern made it work. Not every writer could.
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Post by Dr. Hank Pym on Jul 30, 2008 12:15:22 GMT -5
I gave him a three. I still think, that he was one of the oddest choices that you could've ever picked for an Avenger. Come on -- do all of you honestly think that with the way his character is, he'd be able to stay on that team and contribute without defecting to the other side, or turning on his own team, within two years?! As a character in the Marvel Universe, I give the guy an 8, but he just doesn't fit in as an Avenger. He's not a superhero! Sometimes he happens to be on the side of superheroes, but he's also been a villain. Some may say that Quicksilver is not an Avenger, because of his multiple run-in's with villainy, but those have lasted for short stints! Subby has always been in one field or another, and his hot head/quick temper has gotten him in trouble multiple times. I just don't know, he was barely on the team for more than 10 or so issues (Unless I'm missing something here?  ), I just don't see how that gives the guy an 8. What sort of impact did he put on the team? If we were grading him on guest appearances, even then I'd give the guy a 5. Also, Tana is exactly right in saying that he just doesn't work as a team player. He just doesn't work as a team player at all! He does not look or act like the kind of guy who can receive orders from Captain America! All in all, he's a good Marvel character, but not a great Avenger. |
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Post by Shiryu on Jul 30, 2008 19:02:12 GMT -5
The problem with Namor is that his behaviour changes a lot depending on who writes him. It's not just being a jerk, sometimes it's almost like he has different personalities altogether.
I liked him a lot in Stern's run, and for that I give him a 5. He was much like Hercules, short tempered and ready for hungry outbursts, but also willing to listen and to follow the orders, or to have heart to heart conversations with Cap. There is a scene, around the time of Secret Wars II, where he is arguing with Hercules as usual. Captain Marvel (Rambeau) zaps them apart, then orders him to do something (lifting the Quinjet I think). He says "You are humbling me" and she replies "You are humbling yourself", then he admits she is right.
So, this Namor would be a great Avenger, perhaps one of the greatest.
However, this is counter balanced by the villainous Namor often seen at times, like in Emperor Doom, and by the unreasonable Namor who is only good at arguing. This version could never really fit.
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Doctor Bong
Reservist Avenger
Master of belly dancing (no, really...)!
Posts: 167
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Post by Doctor Bong on Jul 30, 2008 20:17:04 GMT -5
I'm going with 6, based mostly on personality. I've always liked Subby...
I think he can be a good team player as long as Cap's on the team too, for he's the one surface-dweller he respects the most and listens to.
While his might was kinda redundant with Hercules already onboard, his dominion over the ocean added new dimensions to the Avengers combined capabilities.
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Post by sharkar on Aug 4, 2008 15:22:22 GMT -5
I feel vastly unqualified to vote, since I have not read many issues in which he's been an active member. So regrettably, I am going to refrain from voting. However, I agree with everyone who's given him high marks as a character--he's definitely an original. I hope ff doesn't mind that I'm using this here to sum up my thoughts on Namor: One of marvel's best characters... To which I can only add: IMPERIUS REX!  |
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Post by Tana Nile on Aug 5, 2008 15:17:45 GMT -5
One of marvel's best characters... To which I can only add: IMPERIUS REX! By the fabled towers of Atlantis, tis been too long since that noble cry was heard amongst these boards!! |
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Post by dlw66 on Aug 9, 2008 19:42:39 GMT -5
4
I really enjoyed Namor's time with the team, especially the issue where he is sulking (is that new??) and Hercules cleans his clock in an effort to "cheer him up". The dynamics with Cap were good. I mark him down from a 5 or a 6, however, because I really didn't care for the whole Marrina story -- thought is was too long and kind of silly. But Namor would be welcome as the power on my Avengers team anytime.
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!!!
