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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 1, 2007 19:21:51 GMT -5
OK, several of us have been opposed to the placement of Ares as an Avenger for a variety of reasons. There may be some who like Ares in this spot, that's OK too (heathens)
So reather than just say it's a bad thing, put yourself in Tony's,.. I mean Carols shoes.
If you don't go with Ares, who takes that spot? Remember you're trying to find someone to fill the role of Thor AND Wolverine. Is it even important to fill those needs?
Sit, discuss amongst your selves.
By the way, I think they should've gone with Gilgamesh (jk)
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Post by uberwolf on Apr 1, 2007 20:07:45 GMT -5
I think he should be replaced with a gamma irradiated polar bear with adamantium bones.
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Post by thew40 on Apr 1, 2007 20:33:25 GMT -5
Maybe in due time. I'd like to see him develop a little bit more. See where he goes.
I like that he has reason to not be a villain.
~W~
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Post by bendisbites on Apr 1, 2007 20:39:18 GMT -5
I read that he has tried to kill kids before. That's enough reason for me to not give him a chance. Why don't we just have the Hitler version of Hate Monger join up too? All he's done is kill a lot of people. As long as he's cool, it doesn't matter what he did in the past, ya?
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Post by thew40 on Apr 1, 2007 20:43:59 GMT -5
I read that he has tried to kill kids before. That's enough reason for me to not give him a chance. Why don't we just have the Hitler version of Hate Monger join up too? All he's done is kill a lot of people. As long as he's cool, it doesn't matter what he did in the past, ya? Where did you read that? ~W~
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 1, 2007 20:46:55 GMT -5
didn't he almost blow up a childrens hospital? I think that's what he's refering to.
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Post by thew40 on Apr 1, 2007 21:21:40 GMT -5
didn't he almost blow up a childrens hospital? I think that's what he's refering to. Oh. Huh. Well, whatever the case maybe, I'm fairly certain that his past will be dealt with in due time. Plus, he's trying to make amends. ~W~
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Post by balok on Apr 1, 2007 21:41:38 GMT -5
Yes. With his powers, godly portfolio, and personality he is better suited to be a villain.
And that means he belongs on the Thunderbolts, not the Mighty Avengers. Right now, they've got a guy who cripples people. In Ares, they could have someone who hurls people through the air so they can burn up on reentry, who could break all of their bones with a mighty clap of his hands, who could slice off limbs with his ax - why, the possibilities are endless!
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Post by uberwolf on Apr 1, 2007 21:50:05 GMT -5
If you read Ares' appearances in the older Avengers, he is a very spiteful jealous meglomaniac. If Marvel is going to throw him on the Avengers I would like see the reason why he has done a complete 180 and is now trying to redeem himself. Did his miniseries really go into the reasons he changed so much, or did they just rewrite him as a different character they way they are seeming to do ALOT lately?
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Post by redstatecap on Apr 1, 2007 22:17:58 GMT -5
Why don't we just have the Hitler version of Hate Monger join up too? All he's done is kill a lot of people. As long as he's cool, it doesn't matter what he did in the past, ya? In good conscience, I could only get behind Hitler as an Avenger if he was a ninja Hitler, with like little swastika throwing stars. RSC
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Post by thew40 on Apr 1, 2007 22:18:39 GMT -5
Yes. With his powers, godly portfolio, and personality he is better suited to be a villain. And that means he belongs on the Thunderbolts, not the Mighty Avengers. Right now, they've got a guy who cripples people. In Ares, they could have someone who hurls people through the air so they can burn up on reentry, who could break all of their bones with a mighty clap of his hands, who could slice off limbs with his ax - why, the possibilities are endless! Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Perhaps by keeping him on the team, they can keep an eye on him. It's not like they can kiill a god . . . ~W~
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Post by uberwolf on Apr 1, 2007 22:37:16 GMT -5
Why don't we just have the Hitler version of Hate Monger join up too? All he's done is kill a lot of people. As long as he's cool, it doesn't matter what he did in the past, ya? In good conscience, I could only get behind Hitler as an Avenger if he was a ninja Hitler, with like little swastika throwing stars. RSC I would SO buy that! Didn't that guy who wrote Sin City do that? I remember in the movie some ninja hooker throwing killer swastikas.
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Post by bendiszombie on Apr 1, 2007 23:37:47 GMT -5
Ares can stay.
It's kinda hard to have an opinion after only ONE issue, though.
(I was just reading a bunch of old "Tales of Suspense" issues, and Hawkeye must have tried kill Iron Man at least a half a dozen times. Yet, Shell-Head STILL backed him for Avengers membership. I think it's pretty obvious Tony's qualifications for Avenger status aren't the same as mine or yours.)
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Post by redstatecap on Apr 1, 2007 23:45:27 GMT -5
Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Perhaps by keeping him on the team, they can keep an eye on him. It's not like they can kiill a god . . . ~W~ But they can clone one, right? "Clares?" I like it. If Ares gets out of hand, IM just sicks 2, 10, or 100 Clares on him, and throw in some Clors if you will -- problem solved. Or maybe IM could breed a hybrid Clone Thor/Ares. Clores? I think we have a winner! RSC
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Post by Doctor Bong on Apr 2, 2007 0:01:41 GMT -5
Yes. With his powers, godly portfolio, and personality he is better suited to be a villain. And that means he belongs on the Thunderbolts, not the Mighty Avengers. Right now, they've got a guy who cripples people. In Ares, they could have someone who hurls people through the air so they can burn up on reentry, who could break all of their bones with a mighty clap of his hands, who could slice off limbs with his ax - why, the possibilities are endless! Then, by that line of reasoning, certain castle owner in Latveria should receive his own invitation to join the Avengers any day now... And why not...? In all seriousness, putting all sarcasm aside, I DO expect this brave NEW Marvel to do precisely this very thing, sooner or later... Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. Perhaps by keeping him on the team, they can keep an eye on him. It's not like they can kiill a god . . . ~W~
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Post by Doctor Bong on Apr 2, 2007 0:05:23 GMT -5
Then, by that line of reasoning, certain castle owner in Latveria should receive his own invitation to join the Avengers any day now... And why not...? In all seriousness, putting all sarcasm aside, I DO expect this brave NEW Marvel to do precisely this very thing, sooner or later; after all, you know it would sell a lot of comic books....
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Post by Doctor Bong on Apr 2, 2007 0:08:28 GMT -5
I would replace Ares with Ghost Rider, or the Blazing Skull....
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Post by imperiusrex on Apr 2, 2007 3:03:24 GMT -5
Ares can stay. It's kinda hard to have an opinion after only ONE issue, though. (I was just reading a bunch of old "Tales of Suspense" issues, and Hawkeye must have tried kill Iron Man at least a half a dozen times. Yet, Shell-Head STILL backed him for Avengers membership. I think it's pretty obvious Tony's qualifications for Avenger status aren't the same as mine or yours.) Half a dozen? I dunno if Hawk even made that many appearances. I presume you mean he tried to kill him several times during the course of the story in three appearances or so? I think hawkeye also helped him out on one occasion during this run of stories, I seem to remember some deathtrap that Hawk refused to put into play against Iron Man because he didn't want to betray the US. In any case, I think Hawkeye's attempt to fight one avenger armed with just a bow is hardly comparable to a God of War who has tried to kill all of Olympus as well as hundreds of earth people (when he formed the warhawks and had the satyrs inciting crowds to murderous rage). Ares has planned revenge against hercules that has involved unecessary mass murder more than once--it's really ancillary to his plans, just sort of a bonus, and that kind of malevolence is the kind that his change of heart just can't erase. And the idea that you're keeping him close is somewhat silly--he does possess enough power to kill almost any member within seconds. in the middle of a battle if he turns, he could easily kill anyone short of sentry and iron man within seconds. (sorry no one has established what's up with wonder man and his ionic abilities, as he didn't seem to be able to fly in this issue so due to shoddy editing I don't know what's up for sure). That's not sound strategy in the least. So when's Ultron joining the team? I kid, but maybe that is the big revelation next issue. Gahhh.
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silvermoth
Force Works-er
The War is Over!!
Posts: 25
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Post by silvermoth on Apr 2, 2007 5:39:30 GMT -5
I like Ares as an Aenger, I think he might be cool
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 2, 2007 17:00:43 GMT -5
OOOHHHHHH, now it makes sense, Ultron wasn't taking over Iron Mans armor, he/she was just trying to put in an application fro membership,... shoot Moleman was probably just going to point out that he loved Nascar and had a myspace account and was wondering about the opening for Captain America.
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Post by uberwolf on Apr 2, 2007 21:19:47 GMT -5
Maybe it's not even Ultron at all. Maybe it's this extremis thing tapping into Stark's subconscious and warping the armor it's controlling. Which means Tony really wants ... to .. be .. a .. woman?
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Apr 3, 2007 9:17:43 GMT -5
He fits in the Avengers, because the values embodied by the Avengers have changed. The new order at Marvel has cashed in the values emobdied by Captain America and replaced them with whatever SHIELD is supposed to represent -- obediance to authority no matter what? War and death are honorable values as long as you register to work for the authorities. Like it or not, that's the new standard of heroics in Marvel. Under this new standard, ARes is perfectly acceptable for membership. Under the old standards, of course not.
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Post by Doctor Bong on Apr 3, 2007 14:17:21 GMT -5
He fits in the Avengers, because the values embodied by the Avengers have changed. The new order at Marvel has cashed in the values emobdied by Captain America and replaced them with whatever SHIELD is supposed to represent -- obediance to authority no matter what? War and death are honorable values as long as you register to work for the authorities. Like it or not, that's the new standard of heroics in Marvel. Under this new standard, ARes is perfectly acceptable for membership. Under the old standards, of course not. I think you hit the nail right on the head here, Bored Yesterday... I guess if we insist on getting the same things from this brave NEW Marvel that we used to get from the old one we'll only keep reaping more frustration & disappointment... I suppose it's only fair that we should judge this brave NEW Marvel for what it is & not for what it isn't (anymore...), or for what it aspires to be, at any rate... However, the problem in my case is that, indeed, you can't teach this old comic book hound new tricks... I like what I like and this brave NEW Marvel ain't it... Like dlw66 has stated elsewhere, the current MU is a different place from the one we used to know, and many of the differences are core differences, that is, they pertain to core values & views being held by the current creators & Powers that Be at Marvel. The characters, on the whole, might use the same names & look the same, but underneath many of them are very different... they stand for different things, think different things, say different things, act in different ways... There was a book out not long ago, I don't recall the exact title but it went something like this: "The Captain America Complex..." the title was actually longer... Anyway, very interesting read, even if, IMO, the author got it wrong: he argued that superhero fantasies, better embodied by the Captain America character, were always fascist & imperialistic... but nonetheless a deeply embeded fantasy in the collective psyche of the American people... I think he didn't get to know the Captain America character well enough, for the Cap I know believed in the American Dream and american ideals, loved his country, no doubt about it, but he also evolved into a man who realized there was a gap between that Dream & reality, and yet remained optimistic about our chances of one day achieving it, realizing our true potential... He also ended up being a person who sees beyond nationalities & races, beyond prejudice and a champion of liberty for ALL humanity; a person not afraid to critizise his government & even stand against it when he believed it to be wrong; to stand against the forces of opression within & without, for those who cannot do it for themselves: for those who lack the power, the courage or the conviction... Under that light, I think Cap was the antithesis of imperialism or fascism... In short, the symbol of the best the old Marvel had to offer, so it's very appropriate to kill him at this point. IMO it is the NEW type of Marvel hero, represented by the NEW Iron Man, who should be the delight of every person with authoritarian, intolerant, fascistic & imperialistic tendencies.
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Post by Doctor Bong on Apr 3, 2007 14:28:22 GMT -5
I just want to add that Iron Man, as currently depicted, is an almost pitch-perfect stand-in for the current Administration, which -there seems to be little room for doubt...- wholeheartedly agrees with Shellhead that the ends justify the means... and I gotta admit to be a little worried to see some of our younger AAers here not seeing too much wrong with this picture... I can only pray that they only think it acceptable within a comic book universe...
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Post by uberwolf on Apr 3, 2007 22:00:52 GMT -5
Well said Bellhead. Hey that rhymes! I agree totally and you sir deserve an exalt for saying something I would say, only better.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 4, 2007 20:45:54 GMT -5
The thing for me, as for others, is his title.
god of war,
The gods tend to keep the personality of their title. Dionysus will always want to part, Pluto will always be evilish, Eros will lean on love. So any opportunity the god of war has to accelerate conflict, he will take.
I know we should give a few issues before pooping on it, but the concept is hard to adjust to. Maybe he'll turn out to be the best thing to happen to the team. I just kinda doubt it is all.
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Post by Doctor Doom on Apr 5, 2007 15:35:52 GMT -5
BARRY.. ALLEN. Sorry, wrong universe. Um... Thor? I think that could be pretty great, and drive another nail into the anti-reg argument coffin.
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 6, 2007 20:03:46 GMT -5
no,... I would replace him with MY arch-nemesis,.. the hideously evil SQUIRREL GIRL
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Post by Doctor Bong on Apr 6, 2007 20:38:44 GMT -5
If you don't like Squirrel Girl you're nuts... oh, wait... Anyway, anyone who defeats Doom is alright in my book...
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 6, 2007 21:25:05 GMT -5
If you don't like Squirrel Girl you're nuts... oh, wait... Duuhhhhhhhhhhh
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