In Death, CrossGen Has Won...

[Van Plexico]

Okay, that's a pretty cryptic title for a post, especially in the "Civil War" area, right?

But here's my point. (And I was going to write a whole column about this, but I think the main idea is simple enough to just state it here and see what folks think.)

Before CrossGen Comics, Marvel's universe was an internally consistent but loosely connected world. Spidey would appear in his books, and then in maybe a guest spot in someone else's, and then mention that event later on-- so it was all rigorously but loosely connected.

There was no single great "STORY" to the Marvel Universe.

Then came CrossGen. A comics universe with not only interconnectedness, but also ONE BIG STORY across all the comics.

Then CrossGen went belly-up.

And now Marvel has become CrossGen.

For the first time in Marvel history, there is one (at least) big story that involves almost all the characters in the MU, from the top (Tony Stark rules the world; Cap's dead; FF's broken up) to the bottom (crappy little villains join the TBolts or get taken down; crappy little heroes become SHIELD agents or get locked up in the Negative Zone).

The CrossGen experiment failed, but it changed the survivors into being much more like CrossGen was. We now have one big Marvel Universe story (with things like WWHulk and Illuminati as subplots of that story). That is unprecedented and I think it is being overlooked, to some degree.

(I could probably make the same argument about DC, recently, with all its big crossover stuff and "Countdowns" and "Crises," but I don't know DC nearly as well.)

Thoughts??

[Doctor Doom]

.... You know I think there are a couple of folk out there who buy X-Men comics too.

[Van Plexico]

Well, CrossGen had a couple of titles that were only very peripherally related to their "big" story, too.

Or am I misunderstanding your point?

[balok]

Interesting observation. I wonder if that means Marvel will soon be unable to pay its freelancers? If that happens, they could lose Millar, which might even make me cheer! Too bad Bendis signed a contract.

[Alchemist-X]

This wouldn't be such a bad thing if a certain EiC could keep his continuity straight. As it stands its one big story that doesn't fit together nearly as well as it could/should

[Doctor Doom]

admin said:

Well, CrossGen had a couple of titles that were only very peripherally related to their "big" story, too.

Or am I misunderstanding your point?

Not really but I mean- the X-Men Comics are literally an entire, very popular, range of... what, 7 comics?- which aren't remotely related to any of the Civil War, Skrull plot etc. They're all telling their own story too. So if you take the whole marvel universe- you have TWO big stories spread across them!

And yes, your suspicion was correct- Marvel are guilty of it- which I like, because I really like the idea- but DC are guilty of it waaaaay more. Take "Countdown", which lasts 52 weeks and ties into most every title in the DC Universe.

Not saying it's a bad thing, but it's certainly true.

If that happens, they could lose Millar, which might even make me cheer!

Cheer away. Millar has two ongoings in the 616 next year with a possible third title, then he's leaving Marvel for a few years to work on creator owned, though he hopes to come back some day. And it looks like one of his two ongoings is as one of the rotating writers on "Amazing Spider-Man".

[balok]

docdoom said:

Cheer away. Millar has two ongoings in the 616 next year with a possible third title, then he's leaving Marvel for a few years to work on creator owned, though he hopes to come back some day. And it looks like one of his two ongoings is as one of the rotating writers on "Amazing Spider-Man".

Excellent news! Millar is a decent storyteller on original characters (or original takes on existing characters), but I don't like him at all on existing characters because he doesn't respect continuity or characterization. I may even search out some of his CO stuff.

[Doctor Doom]

Just for reference, his creator-owned line is called "Millarworld", he has a bunch of stuff out for it already but his next project that I'm aware of is called "Kick-Ass" and is with JR JR. Oh, and there's a movie of one of his CO comics coming out next year: "Wanted".

How do I know these things? Well I AM a rabid Mark Millar fan with almost every comic the man has written

[thew40]

This is an observation I've made before, actually - though without the Crossgen parallel. The Marvel Universe as a whole is a very interesting place right now, as far as a collective story.

It all kinda started with "Disassembled," though one can trace it back to "Alias," "Daredevil," and various other books.

But "Disassembled" led into "House of M," which spawned off into the X-Books with "Decimation," and "Endangered Species" and the up-coming "Messiah Complex."

"Disassembled" also led to "New Avengers," which has ties to "The Pulse," "Young Avengers," and "Secret War."

Eventually, EVERYTHING has come under the umbrella of either "Anhillation" (sp) or "Civil War," with "The Intiative" and "World War Hulk" picking up in the aftermath -- and now a major Skrull story planned for next year. No to mention "Back in Black" and "One More Day."

So yeah, the Marvel Universe feels almost like one big huge massive story right now. I'm loving every minute of it (well, except for 90% of "Disassembled")

~W~

[Doctor Doom]

thew40 said:

Eventually, EVERYTHING has come under the umbrella of either "Anhillation" (sp) or "Civil War," with "The Intiative" and "World War Hulk" picking up in the aftermath -- and now a major Skrull story planned for next year. No to mention "Back in Black" and "One More Day."

~W~

But again: What about the X-Men! They don't fall under the umbrella of Annihilation or Civil War! Throw in Messiah CompleX though and you have yourself a ball game.

[thew40]

Uhhhhh . . . Doom, they did indeed come under the umbrella of Civil War, what with "X-Men: Civil War," "Wolverine," "X-Factor," and Storm's involvement with Black Panther and "Fantastic Four."

"Annihilation" got name-dropped in "The Rise and Fall of the Shi'ar Empire." Plus, now, with "World War Hulk." The X-Men are pretty much in their little corner, but they're part of the bigger story to, as "Messiah Complex" is a direct result of "Decimation" and "House of M."

~W~

[Doctor Doom]

Oh come on, there were no X-men save Storm involved in the civil war proper. Only the original Five... er... Four were in Civil War: X-Men which had basically ntohing to do with civil war, and in X-Factor the ONLY thing the crew did was say they were against the SHRA. And as for Wolverine, well he's Wolverine. He's involved in EVERYTHING.

It wasn't a REAL involvement in the civil war, and it didn't contribute in the slightest to the overall telling of the story, same with Annihilation and WWH.

[thew40]

They were still involved and these events had a reaction with the X-books - just not a huge one. It's not necessarily a complete involvement, but hey, the X-Men have a crapload of their own problems going on, ya know?

~W~

[balok]

Haven't the X-Men been kinda outsiders for most of their history? Sure, attempts are usually made to get them involved in giant events, but they were created with the idea that certain powered sorts would be oppressed (an obvious parallel to racism), and they've never really fit into mainstream Marvel. About the closest they've come, I think, is when popular characters like Wolverine make appearances in other books.

[thew40]

That's a good point there, Balok. Even though they're pretty much embraced by the rest of the super-hero community, the X-Men have always stood on their own. It doesn't mean they won't help out when they can and there's been an effort on the part of Cyclops' "Astonishing" team to make them more like super-heroes rather than freedom fighters, but for the most part, the X-Men have their own little world to play in that rarely ever involves the Avengers and the Fantastic Four (unless, y'know, a fella named Onslaught was to show up)

It's funny. For all their retoric about human/Mutant peace, they sure don't interact with other super-hero humans that much.

~W~

[Doctor Doom]

balok said:

Excellent news! Millar is a decent storytller on original characters (or original takes on existing characters), but I don't like him at all on existing characters because he doesn't respect continuity or characterization. I may even search out some of his CO stuff.

Forgot to add- you've only seen him right ONE story on existing characters though, right? Civil War. And unless you're trying to say every single character was OOC, which would be silly, then it's more you don't like his take on CERTAIN characters.

His Wolverine run is famed as one of the best Wolverine runs ever, "Enemy of the State", and his Marvel Knights Spider-Man one is also commonly held as one of the best Spider-Man stories in the last ten years, so that's two out of three 616 works where there was an overwhelmingly positive response, as opposed to CW where it was split almost dead even 50/50 across the net.

Maybe you just don't like his take on the Avengers, Fantastic Four or whatever?

[Nutcase65]

What I ask from your main point may be the question you're asking.

Why copy a failed idea?

Let me put it in the real world

Wal~Mart is the largest employer in the world next to the U.S government.
They are also the #1 company (however that is decided)

All of this happened because of a unique buisiness approach by Sam Walton, the founder of the company.

Since release of stock it split 11 times in a little more than 20 years and the company grew exponentially and was hugely profitable.

In the last 7 years Wal~Mart has gotten rid of almost all the Walton family.
The home office has changed most of the fundamental policies and operations of the company patterning them after other retailers in the industry.
Since these changes have occured stock value dropped roughly 15$ a share and has stayed in that range.
They have lost many long term employees
The reputation of the company is a shambles

All of this because they want to immitate lesser entities.

If one of the biggest companies in the world suffers from copying lesser industries. I have to wonder about the long term effects on Marvel. Success in sales now, but what if the bubble bursts.

Maybe they can pull it off, who knows

[thew40]

Please forgive my poor Photoshop skills and let me know if I forgot anything (except for The Sentry volume 2).



~W~

[Alchemist-X]

The Thunderbolts plot also runs through NA, HOM, CW and the Innitiative


Still good work, Exhalt heading your way

[Alchemist-X]

Oh and the YA team with the Runaways during CW, and the CW reprecusions send the Runaways underground (and back in time incidentally)

There were also a few Spider-man plots that stemed directly from the Formation of the NA, like the Breakout mini, and a couple story arcs on Amazing and Spectacular.

And There's also the Parallels going on in IM, Captain America and Ms. Marvel during most of the major events. And the Formation of the Mighty Avengers after CW. And The Fallen Son Mini runs through most of the listed titles as well.

[Alchemist-X]

And Anihilation Connects to Nova, which Connects back to the Innitiative, and will eventually connect to the T-Bolts and New Warriors (Per solicits up to october)

[Alchemist-X]

Oh and that New Warriors LS that was about the Reality TV New Warriors was also used as a sort of lead up to CW

[thew40]

The name of the actual events covers the books included. "Civil War" counts in the events of Captain America, Young Avengers/Runaways, etc.

Nova, the New Warrior LS, and Breakout were all books that should be added in.

~W~