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Post by Engage on May 5, 2007 14:19:31 GMT -5
I love the Vision. He's my favourite Avenger and just might be my favourite character of all time (alongside his DC equivalent, the Martian Manhunter). I love his Victor Shade alter-ego and his weird tastes, like Transian food and dance, jazz music and chess. I also love the brooding and the constant explaining of his "arm in the chest" move. I still think of the Scarlet Witch as the Vision's wife, even when they're not together.
The Vision has to have the craziest family in the history of comics. His father is Ultron, his grandfather Hank Pym. His wife is the mutant Scarlet Witch, which makes his father-in-law Magneto. His brothers, by way of brain patterns, are Wonder Man and the Grim Reaper. His sisters, by way of Ultron, are Jocasta and Alkhema. His other brother is the Young Avengers' Victor Mancha. The Vision's sons are from Mephisto (I can't wrap my head around that one). That is one messed up family.
Isn't it time to get the Vision back into his own body? How much time has he actually spent in his "classic" configuration since he was destroyed in the 80s?
The Vision needs to make his return. His kids are back, his wife is recovering from her breakdown and his "brother" Wonder Man is back in good position in the Marvel Universe. The character has enough material to fill his own ongoing series, so its time to put the Vision back in his own body.
This is how I think it should happen. In a meeting of the biggest minds in the Marvel Universe, the body of the original Vision is put back together by Reed Richards, Tony Stark, Hank Pym, The Beast and the Black Panther. We find out they've met regularly to attempt to put the Vision back together since he was destroyed. Meanwhile, the Young Avengers are attacked by Ultron or the Grim Reaper, who sees the Young Vision as an abomination of his son/brother. The Young Vision is destroyed. The brain patterns of the Young Vision are merged with the fragments of the patterns from the destroyed Vision, restoring the Vision to his original body with his memories and emotions intact. As a bonus he would have the memories of the Young Vision.
The Vision could then look for Wanda, try to cope with the return of his children, try to understand what happened since he was destroyed (House of M, Civil War, etc) and try to fit into the new Marvel Universe. Maybe an issue long fight with Hawkeye for sleeping with Wanda.
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Post by Nutcase65 on May 5, 2007 15:59:31 GMT -5
the other thing about Vision,... he gets all the chicks. It's weird but they realy dig that fake man. He gets to looking at one and another gets jealous. Must be wearing some of that AXE body spray
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Post by dlw66 on May 5, 2007 17:15:40 GMT -5
He ges chtoking at one anr gets jealous. Whoa, dude -- index fingers on F and J, please...
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Post by dlw66 on May 5, 2007 17:17:31 GMT -5
I didn't know this. Sadly, after all of the crap they've put him through (Engage -- I fully appreciate your first paragraph), my care-o-meter just doesn't register for much of the new stuff.
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Post by Nutcase65 on May 5, 2007 18:27:46 GMT -5
I have no idea how that happened. I make some spelling errors but that looked like I was channeling the spirit of some ancient babylonian.
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Post by uberwolf on May 5, 2007 20:06:28 GMT -5
....and then they download the brain patterns of Steve Rogers into the Vision and he becomes Captain Visionary! Ohhh I like that. I feel a name change coming on!
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Post by The Night Phantom on May 6, 2007 15:57:29 GMT -5
Well…there’s some room for dispute. Engage is referring to Young Avengers members Wiccan and Speed. There is some strong circumstantial evidence pointing to them as the Vision and Wanda’s “lost” children: they look a lot alike, like brothers; their names are Billy and Tommy, just like the Vision–Maximoff twins; one of them has prematurely white hair, like Wanda’s brother and father; one has powers that recall Wanda’s, whereas the one with white hair (Speed) has powers that recall her brother’s; the one with Wanda-like powers (Wiccan) once had a curious encounter with the Scarlet Witch, shortly after which his powers first manifested; the two young men were among possible candidates for eventual replacement Avengers that the Vision had been tracking; and the Super-Skrull assumed they were Wanda’s children. Still, I think it’s a setup: even if there is a connection between the lads and Wanda, I suspect the connection might be a slightly more convoluted one. Maybe we’ll find out one way or another, if writer Allan Heinberg pulls himself from TV long enough… His other brother is the Young Avengers' Victor Mancha. Victor is a Runaway, not a Young Avenger. Of course, the Young Avengers have a member called the Vision who has the classic Avenger Vision’s memories but not his body or emotional connections—not sure if that would make him a “brother” or “son” or what. Victor and the new Vision met in the Civil War: Young Avengers & Runaways mini-series.
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Post by dlw66 on May 6, 2007 18:42:51 GMT -5
Thank you, sir, for that summary. Long ago I wrote on the boards in response to Van's love for Young Avengers that I'd try it out; sadly, that has yet to come to pass...
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Post by Engage on May 6, 2007 22:55:41 GMT -5
Victor is a Runaway, not a Young Avenger. Yeah, thats a typo on my part. But still, as the "son" of Ultron I think he would be considered a brother to the Vision. These are the sorts of character relationships I'd like to see explored with a restored Vision.
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Post by dlw66 on May 9, 2007 12:58:45 GMT -5
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Post by Engage on May 9, 2007 13:58:27 GMT -5
Apparantly this is my yearly argument in favour of restoring the Vision.
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Post by dlw66 on May 9, 2007 14:18:54 GMT -5
Yearly? We ought to argue this CONSTANTLY!!
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Post by The Night Phantom on May 9, 2007 20:28:32 GMT -5
Yearly? We ought to argue this CONSTANTLY!! “Back—because you demanded it! And demanded it… And demanded it… And demanded it… And finally we gave in!”
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Post by dlw66 on May 9, 2007 22:06:00 GMT -5
Don't you long for the days of yore with a goofy Stan-dialogued cover exclaiming something like that??
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Post by The Night Phantom on May 9, 2007 23:04:05 GMT -5
Don't you long for the days of yore with a goofy Stan-dialogued cover exclaiming something like that?? You know it, tiger! Who says this isn’t the Yen-Filled Marvel Age of Yearning for the Yabber-Yielding Yarns of Yesteryear?!!
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Post by scottharris on May 11, 2007 9:06:28 GMT -5
Well, since you brought it up. The Vision is on of my favorite characters, and recently I wrote several posts about this topic on another forum, so I thought I would repost them here as they may be of some interest to you.
Part 1
I was thinking about the vision today, after reading Civil War #7 and Mighty Avengers #1 (no, I didn't pay for it). I ended up with so many different tangents that I'm going to have to do a second post just to talk about what I originally was going to post about.
Instead I want to first talk about the untaped potential of the Vision. As many of you know, the Vision is one of my two or three favorite Avengers and comic book characters in general, so it probably doesn't surprise anyone that I feel he is under utilized. But the more I think about his current situation the more I am convinced that as of right this moment he has more potential for interesting and compelling storylines than just about all of the other current "Avengers" combined.
This isn't to imply that I am unhappy with the Vision's role in Young Avengers; indeed, many of the things I am going to mention are based on the work in that series and I very much enjoy reading it. But there are so many unanwered questions and unexplored possibilities that every day without a major monthly title featuring the Vision is a day of wasted potential.
Here are some of the major possibilities with the Vision that have not yet been explored:
The main thing yet to be explored or explained is the very nature of the Vision. Specifically, in his new form, how much of the original Vision's personaility remains and how much is new? And more to the point -- how much of it is based on the fact that he now is based on Kang's brain pattersn rather than Wonder Man's? The nature of and influence of "brain patterns" as they relate to the Vision's personality has never been fully explained, though with their shared affection for the Scarlet Witch it is implied that these brain patterns at the least have a sub-conscious influence on develeopment, or in other words form a foundation for the personality. How will this base level integration of Kang's "brain pattern" affect the Vision's personaility, expecially as it develops, since this is in effect a rebooted version starting anew?
There are other questions about this. The Kang that Vision's brain patterns are formed on was a younger version working to rebel against his destiny -- how does that factor in? Iron Lad hasn't ceased to exist -- if he returns from the future, does this mean he and Vision are now "brothers" as Wonder Man and Vision previously considered themselves? What if Iron Lad returns as Kang? The Vision and Kang -- brothers?! How could this affect Kang's relationship with the Vision and the Avengers? This I find very interesting. (If you really want to push the point, that would make Vision "related" to both Ultron and Kang, which could have its own possibilities).
On a technical note, I'm also interested in the physical side of the new Vision. Since he has returned, Vision has displayed his normal array of powers. However, he is not in fact even in his body that has those powers -- he is inhabiting the Iron Lad armor which is 30th century Kang technology. While he seems to be able to emulate his old powers, he should also be capable of all sorts of other things as well. The armor is vastly more advanced than anything in the "current" MU and has all sorts of untapped secrets.
Which might be of interest, you'd think, to a certain Tony Stark. The Vision/Stark relationship is another thing I would like to see explored. IIRC this Vision was being hidden/nurtured/whatever in Stark labs after his rebooting. I recall Stark saying that they had "agreed that Vision should stay in the labs" or something to that effect when Vision first joined up with the Young Avengers. I'm wondering how much control Stark has over the Vision or exactly what was going on in those labs; and how much influence Stark would currently have over the Vision; and how interested Stark might be in examining that Kang technology for his own purposes. I feel like there's the potential here for a very lopsided sort of relationship based on the current portrayal of Stark; a sort of overbearing, controlling relationship with Stark in the parental role, manipulating and supressing the "young" Vision for his own needs.
Another interesting thing to me is the process of the Vision's "reboot" and what that suggests. The Vision has "died" before and been rebuilt, with a totally different personality (thank you, John Byrne the Antichrist!); but more interesting is the fact that this time Vision seemed to have some sort of protocol for his own resurrection. Let's see... a robot who perpetuates his existence by booting new copies into new bodies while incorporating new technology and exhibiting somewhat changed personaility with new iterations. Gee, do we know anyone like that? Oh yeah, Ultron. If I was miraculously given the job of writing Avengers (which would be almost better just to get rid Bendis than to have the chance myself) I would think about working on a slow developing, long term Vision-as- Ultron storyline. How would a Vsiion who, say, has been "killed" a couple more times change as he updates his data banks to incorprate lessons learned about betrayal by people like his own wife, his friends and the U.S. Government? Maybe a darker, more cynical, ambiguous Vision-5? Or whatever. That's just one way you could go, but the parallels between Ultron and the recent history of the Vision are worth exploring regardless of how it is developed.
Speaking of the Scarlet Witch -- it has always been my contention that the Vision is a much stronger character without her around, and I think all these story possibilities bear that out. I think Englehart did everything that could be done with them as a couple and there was nothing left. Now, though, in their current situation I think their relationship has much more interesting potential than it did previously. A more antagonisitic, betrayed love vibe could be interesting, though it would need a more assertive Vision than is currently being shown.
I will say that, as much as I dislike what Bendis and company have done with the Avengers, they have created an environment that allows for new story possibilities. My issue is that based on their work so far they have shown no ability to follow up on any of them successfully. I am very hopeful that at some point someone will step up that can use these ideas for some really cool Avengers stories. And hell -- this was just one character.
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Post by scottharris on May 11, 2007 9:08:27 GMT -5
Part 2
Yes, I'm still thinking about the Vision and I had a couple more things that I wanted to mention.
As you know, for a long time the Vision was succesptable to being controlled by Ultron or other outside sources, such as ISAAC, due to the control crystal Ultron implanted in his body when he built the Vision. At the end of the Ultimate Vision story in Avengers #254 this control crystal was removed, thus ending Ultron's influence over the Vision. Further, after this point the Vision was completely disassembled in WCA; later (IIRC, memory is hazy on this) switched bodies with the Gatherer's Vision; and was totally destroyed by She- Hulk.
The point is that he now is not even a synthezoid at all, but instead resides in a suit of Kang's future armor. As I mentioned in one of my ealier posts, this brings up some interesting questions about just what his powers or capabilities are, as he currently is apeing his old powers but presumably has others. A further question, though, was raised in the recent Young Avengers/Runaways Civil War crossover limited series.
During this series, the Vision encounted one of the Runaways, a guy by the name of Victor, who is a cyborg created by Ultron. He views Ultron as his "father" which would make Vicotr and the Vision "brothers". However, they are not able to discuss this because whenever they get close together they both experience intense feedback that disrupts both of their systems.
The explanation given for this is that the feedback is due to their shared programming. The obvious implication for long time Vision readers is that it's not the control crystal or any other physical devices which connect Vision to Ultron, but rather the Vision's very programming that provides this link, even after being completed destroyed and rebooted from scratch. So, how much of Ultron remains in the Vision? Is Vision still succeptable to being controlled against his will by Ultron?
Victor is in many ways Vision 2.0, as he was created for the exact same purpose as the Vision -- he was supposed to join the Avengers and then destroy them from within when Ultron activted his sleeper programming, just as the Vision was -- just with more advanced technology. In Runaways, Victor was able to override his programming to prevent Ultron from forcing him to kill his teammates, but in one future timeline Victor succeeds in joining the Avengers and proceeds to destroy all of Earth's heroes; the other members of the Runaways remain unsure if Victor could be subverted by Ultron's programming at any moment.
Their shared history, purpose and programming suggest that if this programming still remains an issue for Victor, it probably also remains a potential threat for the Vision, based on how their programming interacted. However, as the Avengers believe this threat long since ended, they are likely to be much less vigilant about it than the Runaways are with Victor.
I think the Victor/Vision relationship, with each other and with Ultron, has a lot of potential not just in and of itself, but because of these implications.
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In one of my previous posts I also mentioned the interesting question of how Vision's development would be affected by being based on the brain patterns of Kang. One interesting thing about his appearance in Young Avengers, though, is not so much the fact that it's Kang but that it's a young Kang. The Vision has been portrayed, in my opinion, as somewhat hesitant, less forceful and less confidant than in the past and more likely to submit to the will or instructions of others. This can be seen as a result of his brain patterns coming from that of a teenager rather than that of an adult. His decision to change his appearance to the more slender, younger looking Vision was due to his desire to fit in with his teammates and make them more comfortable -- but also, I think, in the youthful desire to conform and be part of the group rather than stand out.
This opens up some more questions that can be looked at. The nature of brain patterns and their affact on the Vision's personailty have never been fully explored. Will the Vision mature as time goes, or will a base level immaturity be hardwired into his programming based on the age of his brain patterns? Do brain patterns determine personality, or... I mean, what do they do? Vision never seemed to have a similar personality to Wonder Man in my opinion; other than their shared romantic interest in the Scarlet Witch, they seemed to have little in common. Yet it has been implied that the brain patterns makes them closer than brothers.
The Gatherer's Vision is an interesting if mostly forgotten case. He was not just evil, but evil in a very different way than you would expect the Vision to be. He wasn't cold or overly calculating or robotic; instead, he was lewd and slimy and seemed to revel in being an evil scumbag. In short, he did not seem like someone the Vision would become, but rather more like a different Vision was created to begin with. Was this a result of his programming? Or was this perhaps due to his programming being merged with a different set of brain patterns?
In Young Avengers, it's shown that the Vision's programming exists separetly from the brain patterns; he appears as a holographic program prior to merging himself with iron Lad's brain patterns. In the Vision's origin, the merging with the brain patterns was shown as a crucial step in the creating of the Vision. Yet, it seems that he can exist in a more purely robotic or computer form. The merging with the brain patterns, then, could be seen as a creation stage where he turns from robot to cyborg, or from program to person.
If Vision can exist in pure program form, though, it would be logical that he could be copied, or backed up; indeed, this is the way he survived being destroyed by She Hulk. So, why couldn't you make multiple copies of the Vision that could either be dowloaded into different robotic forms or merged with copies of the same -- or different -- brain patterns?
Another question is, once the program has merged with one set of brain patterns, can the Vision unmerge himself, or be unmerged? Surely there are brain patterns more desirable than Kang or Wonder Man. What if the Vision merged himself with a different set of brani patterns -- for instance, how about Vision merges himself with a recording of the brain patterns of Captain America? How would this affect his personality? How would the other Avengers, and Iron Man in particular, react to this?
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I guess I'll stop there, though I also had a thing about how the Vision/Hawkeye pairing is perfect chemistry thanks to their nearly opposite personality types. Yet they never clash with each other. A great pairing.
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Post by uberwolf on May 11, 2007 21:02:40 GMT -5
Captain America's brain patterns with the powers of the Vision... He was unstoppable as a super soldier. What would he be like with that power set???
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