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Post by Shiryu on Feb 15, 2007 9:47:25 GMT -5
Let's talk about our furry bouncing blue Avenger, one of the few cases where a character belonging to one team was much appreciated (and is now missed) in the other. What do you think of him ? should he stay with the XM or be back with the Avengers ? was he, and would he be, a valuable addition to the team ?
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Post by dlw66 on Feb 15, 2007 10:36:31 GMT -5
I loved the Beast in Avengers, and his appearances, although fleeting, in vol. III were good. I especially liked, after he'd been in the Avengers for some time, when he turned up in X-Men again. This would have been after the second battle with Magneto, when Prof. X and Phoenix thought the team was dead. Good, emotional story. I thought his return to human form shortly after X-Factor began showed potential, but in my opinion Walter Simonson trashed that book both in terms of art and story. Not only was the Beast poorly handled, but I never really forgave Simonson for the whole Archangel thing... I don't keep up on X-Men these days, but I know I don't care for his continued evolution (the cat-face), nor for the ugly suit they had him in in Astonishing X-Men.
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Feb 15, 2007 13:06:36 GMT -5
If he's blue and furry, ape-like -- Avengers. Fleshy and barefoot -- X-Men Catlike -- out of sight and out of mind.
During my formative comic-buying years, the Byrne-drawn Beast was part of the Avengers and for years I thought of him as central to the team. Now, after reading most of volume I, I don't feel that way any more.
The best part of Beast in Avengers was his interaction with Wonder-man. I'd like to see a Beast / Wonderman series akin to Cable/Deadpool, but I don't need the Beast in the Avengers anymore. It was a good period, but I'm fine with letting it pass in favor of new trends and fashions.
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Post by redstatecap on Feb 15, 2007 15:24:24 GMT -5
I happen to think he makes a better Avenger than an X-Man, and I've seen a fair number of X-men fans who'd agree. The caveat is -- and I think most would agree -- that he's thought of as basically a package deal with Wonder Man. That's just a product of the fact that the classic Beast/WM thing is fondly remembered and rightly so. I suppose this is a weakness in that I'm not completely sure he'd work in a long run without Wonder Man. Could the Beast go beyond that from a characterization sense with the Avengers? Interesting question.
RSC
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Post by dlw66 on Feb 16, 2007 21:51:59 GMT -5
It was good to see the original Hank McCoy make a cameo in EMH II #6, now on sale.
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Post by Doctor Bong on Feb 16, 2007 22:53:56 GMT -5
Can anyone tell me how & when did the Beast start to further evolve into his present cat-like appearance...? And how come the Dark Beast, apparently, hasn't been affected by it...?
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Post by dlw66 on Feb 17, 2007 8:58:26 GMT -5
Whoa, whoa, whoa... Dark Beast? Someone fill me in. Dark _______. Now there's a fresh idea!!!
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ozbot
Reservist Avenger
Posts: 103
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Post by ozbot on Feb 17, 2007 11:32:47 GMT -5
Can anyone tell me how & when did the Beast start to further evolve into his present cat-like appearance...? And how come the Dark Beast, apparently, hasn't been affected by it...? Short answer? The artist wanted to. No, really! For the long answer, let me dust off my old Unofficial Handbook site: "McCoy left the X-Men to join several of their number as they began a search for the diaries of the late mutant seer, Destiny. Injured in battle with the mutant Vargas, McCoy returned for a period of recuperation, which left his body even more mutated, leaving him with lion-like features. Initially, Trish Tilby was upset at this latest mutation, and she broke up with him. Later, she tried to rekindle their relationship, but McCoy rejected her. During this time, McCoy joined Professor Xavier, Wolverine, Cyclops, and Jean Grey in re-opening Xavier's school, now called Xavier's Institute of Higher Learning, to the mutant population at large, training and educating new students to help them cope with their powers." As you can see, the Beast was split between Claremont's X-Treme X-Men and Morrison's New X-Men, the latter of which had Quietly's redesign. I wonder if fans were more upset at the lack of continuity between the appearances than the appearance itself. Regardless, Claremont was forced to come up with an in-story reason to both mutate Hank and shuffle him off exclusively to New X-Men. Whoa, whoa, whoa... Dark Beast? Someone fill me in. Are you sure? It brings flashbacks to the 90's... okay, from the same Unofficial Handbook site: "At one point, McCoy was kidnapped by and replaced with his evil alternate dimensional counterpart from the Age of Apocalypse: the Dark Beast. However, Hank was rescued when the Dark Beast was revealed during the team's encounter with the being Onslaught." I remember being creeped out by the Dark Beast, who sealed Hank up behind bricks a la "Cask of Amontillado," but I think this was largely a plot that went nowhere, pleased no one, and was conveniently swept away by some throwaway scenes during the Onslaught crossover. (There may have been some creative reasons, too, since IIRC it was during the time Lobdell was a lame duck writer at the time.) And does anyone remember teh Avengers Two miniseries that teamed Beast and Wonder Man after Wondie's Busiek ressurection?
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Post by Doctor Bong on Feb 17, 2007 12:05:38 GMT -5
Thanks, ozbot... I must say I prefer the "Blue Ape-Man" Beast to the cat-like one, for I think it's a more original look (perhaps with the exception of the "Wolverine" hair...); in my book, they were enough cat-like people in the MU already...
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Post by Doctor Bong on Feb 17, 2007 12:17:01 GMT -5
Therefore, if the Beast would be an Avenger again, I would prefer him to have his "Ape-Man" appearance once more; also, I believe in the aphorism "If it ain't broke, don't fix it.", so I would have Wonder Man as well... Other members to go with them...? I would choose the Vision (classic, no teen-ager robot for me, thanks-), the Scarlet Witch (during a sane "spell"...), Hawkeye, the Black Panther, Firebird and, for some infusion of new blood, Songbird... Hey, if an Avengers' team can have 2 Spiders, I don't see why not it could have 2 birds...
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Post by thew40 on Feb 17, 2007 12:43:27 GMT -5
As an X-Fan, I really like the cat-like Beast. It brings a certain style and dignity to him that the ape-body just didn't give him. That being said, I liked it better when Quietly was drawing him and not Cassidy.
I'd love to see Beast re-join the Avengers, though he works well in both titles.
~W~
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Post by dlw66 on Feb 21, 2007 10:41:57 GMT -5
ozbot, thanks for the information. Don't like it, but thanks anyway.
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Feb 21, 2007 11:08:41 GMT -5
But this further mutation doesn't match up with the What If from the 1980s -- What if the Thing and the Beast continued to mutate? I don't recall any feline characteristics in that mutation, but I haven't read that story in about 20 years either, so ... -- But anyway, kind of robs what if stories of their impact -- when it's more like, "maybe if."
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Post by imperiusrex on Feb 21, 2007 16:23:30 GMT -5
But this further mutation doesn't match up with the What If from the 1980s -- What if the Thing and the Beast continued to mutate? I don't recall any feline characteristics in that mutation, but I haven't read that story in about 20 years either, so ... -- But anyway, kind of robs what if stories of their impact -- when it's more like, "maybe if." well if I recall the what if story correctly, wasn't the Beast's mutation due to the formula he used on himself during his days at Brand, whereas the mutation in X-Men is due to a secondary mutation or some such idea?
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Feb 21, 2007 22:09:34 GMT -5
You know what -- I have no idea! Wish I had time to dig that out and read it again right now, but there are so many comics that I haven't even read once yet!
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daned
Probationary Avenger
Posts: 87
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Post by daned on Feb 22, 2007 6:57:20 GMT -5
I did get my hands on the Avengers Two from a couple years ago. I can remember I enjoyed it, but I'll be buggered if I can actually remember anything about it. I think it may have dealt with some loose plot threads from WM's series. Possibly.
Maybe.
Probably not.
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Post by imperiusrex on Feb 22, 2007 21:42:49 GMT -5
I did get my hands on the Avengers Two from a couple years ago. I can remember I enjoyed it, but I'll be buggered if I can actually remember anything about it. I think it may have dealt with some loose plot threads from WM's series. Possibly. Maybe. Probably not. Nope, it did. here read these: www.uncannyxmen.net/db/issues/showfaq.asp?fldAuto=237click on each of the titles and it'll give a synopsis of each issue. Essentially, as I recall Wondy was feeling undeserved of his many second chances and wondering why Mephisto has taken such an interest in him. And caused a bunch of illusions during the last few issues of Wondy's series including making Simon believe his mother was dead. It's a little convoluted and not Stern and Busiek's best work.
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daned
Probationary Avenger
Posts: 87
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Post by daned on Feb 23, 2007 5:40:50 GMT -5
Cool. The beer hasn't killed all those brain cells.
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Post by sharkar on Feb 26, 2007 20:02:22 GMT -5
dlw: in addition to the information Ozbot provided about the Dark Beast, you also may want to check out the character bios in the "Spotlight" section in the "Uncanny X-men.net" site Rex mentions. www.uncannyxmen.net/db/spotlight/The only drawback is that not all of the bios are up to date. But there is plenty of information about the Dark Beast period in the Beast entry. There's also a great bio on Wanda, though for some reason there's no bio for Pietro!
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Post by Nutcase65 on Mar 15, 2007 9:01:40 GMT -5
The Beast in his apelike form would be more than a welcome sight back with the Avengers. His intellect and wonderful sense of humor always helped to keep other more loft characters grounded.
If it's the cat-like Beast, who would be in charge of changing the kitty litter?
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Post by Nutcase65 on Apr 2, 2007 21:30:38 GMT -5
I had never read the issue where the Beast was introduced.
Just got done with 136 and 137. 137 Is his first appearance in the Avengers fur-clad, and he is absolutely INSANE. He goes completely whacko and almost beats Iron Man to death. In the next issue he joins the Avengers at their open call,... I can only guess a lot of stuff must've happened for him to be able to approach the team without them Assembling his furry behind.
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Post by Bored Yesterday on Apr 3, 2007 8:37:58 GMT -5
He is pretty insane at first. I like how they play up his stength, as well as his agility. Seems like later on, he was just the agile one.
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Post by ultron69 on May 8, 2009 7:54:01 GMT -5
I'm torn. I love the Beast. I love both Avengers and X-men. As to which group I'd rather see him in, it really depends on who else is on those teams. If one team already has a similar character (Nightcrawler, for instance, in terms of both powers and, to a lesser extent, personality) then there is less need for him on that team. I'll gladly take him on either team. I liked the nerdyBeast of X-Men days, and when he became a happy go lucky joker with the Avengers, I liked that too, though he was at times too much of a goofball and some of his jokes were pretty corny.
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Post by ultron69 on May 8, 2009 7:55:41 GMT -5
I had never read the issue where the Beast was introduced. Just got done with 136 and 137. 137 Is his first appearance in the Avengers fur-clad, and he is absolutely INSANE. He goes completely whacko and almost beats Iron Man to death. In the next issue he joins the Avengers at their open call,... I can only guess a lot of stuff must've happened for him to be able to approach the team without them Assembling his furry behind. That was a reprint from an Amazing Adventures comic, used as a fill-in because the real story wasn't ready. He wasn't a memer at that point.
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Post by ultron69 on May 8, 2009 7:58:13 GMT -5
He is pretty insane at first. I like how they play up his stength, as well as his agility. Seems like later on, he was just the agile one. I know there is an issue somewhere around #170 where Cap is struggling to curl 500 lbs (an amazing amount for a "normal" to curl!) and when he is done, Beast walks by and casually picks up the 500 lb dumbell with one hand, lifts it over his head, and walks away to put it away, singing all the way, as if it's nothing. He was over the top goofy at first. I like him as a jokester, but it was a bit too much a first. I like when he used big words back in the early X-Men days.
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Post by bobc on May 8, 2009 8:04:39 GMT -5
I loved the Beast in the Avengers--he was the first super-hero who mutated into a monster (for lack of a better word) who didn't mope around in self-pity, in fact--he totally embraced it! He flaunted it! Unlike Reed and Sue, the Beast left a popular team and immediately fit in with the Avengers --and I really liked the angle that even though he was usually happy and funny, underneath there was this feeling that he wasn't up to the Avengers' standards.
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Post by ultron69 on May 8, 2009 8:16:48 GMT -5
I loved the Beast in the Avengers--he was the first super-hero who mutated into a monster (for lack of a better word) who didn't mope around in self-pity, in fact--he totally embraced it! He flaunted it! That is what I loved most about him. That's also why I used to love Nightcrawler. He didn't exactly falunt it like the Beast, but he was a happy go lucky guy in spite of his appearance.
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Post by squidboy on Jul 13, 2009 20:50:27 GMT -5
I know I'm out of touch, but where is Beast now? Is he active in any current book and is it the "real" beast that I we know and love, or that strange cat thing? He was my fave back in the day!
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Post by scottharris on Jul 14, 2009 1:20:57 GMT -5
I know I'm out of touch, but where is Beast now? Is he active in any current book and is it the "real" beast that I we know and love, or that strange cat thing? He was my fave back in the day! He is still active as cat-beast in the pages of Uncanny X-Men.
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Post by bobc on Jul 14, 2009 8:46:15 GMT -5
I think most of us are out of touch due to the thousands of desperate, flailing around plot-lines in recent years. When i read that there was actually a Dark Beast character, I knew the X-Men had jumped the shark and to this day I've only bought maybe five more issues of the X-Men. Nothing I read made me want to start collecting it again.
I agree with Bored Yesterday. Adding to what he said, I have noticed that both the Beast and the She-Hulk are big Avenger fan favorites--two characters who sort of came out of obscurity, making names for themselves in the Avengers. Why? In my opinion it is because both of them are--or were-- so funny. Both of them added levity and light-heartedness to the team. I am all for dark brooding characters, but if you have a team full of them it gets tedious (another reason I stopped reading the X-Men--their incessant self-pity made my stomach churn after a while).
One of the reasons I loved Busiek's runs on the Avengers is that he could actually write DIFFERENT personality types. If you closed your eyes and someone read you the dialogue in the Avengers, you could definitely tell who was speaking in most cases, which is the mark of a great writer.
I think the Beast became popular because the Avengers were the Big Time--very serious--and he just kind of appeared one day and completely changed the chemistry in a good way. I liked how he always felt a little inferior too--it made for interesting stories.
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