She-Avengers

[Shiryu]

Let's talk of the Avengers girls. There have been quite a few of them over the years, and some have been mainstays (Wasp, She-Hulk), or very important characters (Photon).
Who is your favorite and why ?

[dlw66]

Tough call there. Who I like or who makes the most interesting group dynamics? I still like Mantis for the latter; probably the Wasp or Black Widow for the former. As stated by others elsewhere, Wanda has largely been misused, although she's had a great history in the group.

[Van Plexico]

In terms of just my favorite female Avenger in general? Carol Danvers-- Ms. Marvel. Cool character, and the best costume in all of comics.

Favorite female in the context of Avengers membership, long-running appearances, role on the team (and in the team's interpersonal dynamics)? The Scarlet Witch, hands down.

Wanda had interesting, if not outright fiery, relationships with many of the other members of the team, in different ways. The Vision, Wonder Man, Hawkeye, Quicksilver, Ms Marvel, Mantis, and the Wasp all interacted with her in interesting ways, over the years, and kept things sparking along. That was always a big part of what made the series interesting to me. And I miss her terribly now.

[Yellowjacket]

For me it´s Janet/Wasp, and it´s got nothing to do with my nickname... ;D

Would it be alone for the portrayal/art, I would choose Wanda/Scarlet Witch, but you see, appearance isn´t everything.

But I have not yet read any stories with Natasha/Black Widow as chairman, maybe that could change my opinion.

[Shiryu]

Until a while ago, I would have gone for Wasp or Wanda myself. The first was one of the team's best leaders, and the second is an interesting character and was quite important in the first part of V3.
However my opinion of Wasp has been put down by her behaviour in the Secret Wars, where she only seems capable of worrying for the hairs and nails. I know she is not so shallow normally, but still I can't read her in that LS.
Wanda had some dodgy behaviour at the time of Force Works, and now she has been Bendis' scapegoat for destroying the Avengers and almost the whole M.U.
Having said that, I like Photon a lot, but I think my fav is the newcomer Firestar, I actually enjoyed reading her, for example when she refused to wear a costume with a lot of cleavage and when she changed her opinion of the Avengers. Hope she comes back in the team (but not before Bendis leaves ^^)

[Yellowjacket]

shiryu said:

However my opinion of Wasp has been put down by her behaviour in the Secret Wars, where she only seems capable of worrying for the hairs and nails.

Yeah, but that´s (like everything else ;D) all Jim Shooter´s fault.

[The Night Phantom]

Gooood eeeeeeevening...new member here.

One could assemble a pretty cool team of all-female Avengers, even if restricted to women who have already been Avengers at one point. E.g.:

• the Wasp (a respected leader and proven combatant)
  
• Captain Marvel/Photon (also a good leader and teammate—and very powerful)
  
• She-Hulk (raw power)
  
• the Scarlet Witch (heart of the team—powerful in arcane ways)
  
• Ms. Marvel/Warbird (OK, I’m repeating myself: powerful!)
  
• Captain Britain (eek—a Chuck Austen character—but she loaned strength and attitude to the team during her short stay)
  
• Spider-Woman [Julia Carpenter] (I always liked her, and she had some odd powers, on top of the usual super-strength etc.)
  
• Spider-Woman [Jessica Drew] (I always liked her too, and I was glad to see her become an Avenger, even though I don’t care for this protracted espionage stuff she’s currently mired in)
  

Don’t like my picks? There are plenty of others to choose from. A few might seem unlikely at the moment (Moira Brandon comes to mind; and I don’t figure on the Invisible Woman rejoining without her hubby—but after Civil War, who knows?), but still there are several more: Black Widow, Moondragon, Crystal, Mantis, Firebird, Hellcat, Tigra, and on and on!

There have been times when the Avengers roster has been all-male—always very brief, I believe—and so I think it would be fair to have an all-star all-distaff team, even if for just a short while.

As for answering Shiryu’s actual question (which she-Avenger is my favorite?), hm...that’s a toughie. Maybe She-Hulk? (Buy her comic!)

[Yellowjacket]

nightphantom said:

and I don’t figure on the Invisible Woman rejoining without her hubby—but after Civil War, who knows

Yeah, it´s hard to visualize any FF member being an active member of another team, at least for any length of time; family ties are too strong, I think.
And then, doesn´t in the near future die someone of the FF (Death in the family oneshot)?
Does anybody here know rumors, which member this will be?

[Shiryu]

An all-females team of Avengers would be nice I guess, but not for too long. I would lack people like Cap, Thor, Iron Man and others who are usually mainstays.
And also, could you imagine how Hawkeye would comment on it ?

Don't know anything about a death in FF, and to be honest I doubt it will be something permanent... still I enjoy when FF and Avengers work together, even in informal ways (for example when the Avengers guested the FF after the distruction of the Baxter Building).

[Avenger4Ever]

I like them all for one reason or another but, my absolute fav is Scarlet Witch. Classic costume design and interesting powers makes her stand out from the others.

Brian - A4E

[The Night Phantom]

shiryu said:

An all-females team of Avengers would be nice I guess, but not for too long. I would lack people like Cap, Thor, Iron Man and others who are usually mainstays.
And also, could you imagine how Hawkeye would comment on it ?

Yes...actually, he’s my pick for the first male recruit of the all-women team. ;D

I agree that a long-term restriction of Avengers membership to just females—or just males—wouldn’t be a good thing.

yellowjacket said:

nightphantom said:

and I don’t figure on the Invisible Woman rejoining without her hubby—but after Civil War, who knows

Yeah, it´s hard to visualize any FF member being an active member of another team, at least for any length of time; family ties are too strong, I think.
And then, doesn´t in the near future die someone of the FF (Death in the family oneshot)?
Does anybody here know rumors, which member this will be?

Spoiler (and wild speculation) alert: Marvel’s solicitation says pointblank that it’s Sue, and Johnny chooses to do “whatever it takes...to see his sister alive again”. Evidently he succeeds: Sue and Reed are supposedly on opposite sides in Civil War (and I don’t believe that’s living vs. dead!). The FF letters page has been polling readers on various topics, such as favorite (past) replacement member; editorial hasn’t said, but it’s reasonable to suppose they might want that information for planning future issues. And in the replacement-member poll, it’s somewhat telling that the only past replacement member not given as an option was Ant-Man (Scott Lang)—the only one who’s dead and therefore least likely to rejoin. And you don’t need living replacement members for upcoming stories unless one or more current members are leaving the team. So, I think it’s reasonable to think at least one FF’er will be leaving the team as a result of Civil War. I don’t know whether Sue is leaving—and even if she is, I don’t know if she’s joining an Avengers team, much less an all-female one—but it looks like we’re facing a scenario in which at least one core FF’er might soon be serving with a different group.

[Shiryu]

Interesting spoiler (but things are getting more and more complicated in the MU !)

[bobc]

I never thought of it until you all said it, but Wanda really has been directly involved in almost every interesting interpersonal conflict the Avengers ever had! She's a real drama queen!

hmmmm my favorite female Avenger?

I like She-Hulk for her personality and the fact she's nearly as strong as the strongest male Avengers.

I like the Wasp's powers and leadership.

I love Wanda's wierd powers--but liked them better when they were more erratic.

I liked Ms. Marvel, she's probably the Avengers' best "warrior" female type, and felt her calm and disciplined approach to everything offset the drama queen aspects of some of the other characters.

I loved Mantis for all the wrong reasons--that big old ho!

Black Widow was cool but may have been too low powered to be believable in a group like this.

Let's see--Crystal--I associate her with the FF and Inhumans so I never really took her seriously in the Avengers. She always seemed to be just there.

Jocasta--blech.

Invisible Girl--really, really bad idea.

Tigra--another one who seemed to be just there for no apparent reason.

Mockingbird--too low powered. Never liked her much.

Spiderwoman--she's okay. Plus she has large breastesses.

Did I miss anybody?

Overall I'd probably say Wanda or the Wasp.

[guest]

Sersi, undoubtably! Cool looks, powers, story, everything!

[imperiusrex]

I've always been a big fan of Mantis and Moondragon. Those two cause problems whenever they appear. If I had to have just one, it'd be Moonie. She can be such a royal pain and really irks people. She'd be fun to write, for sure...

[Spiderwasp]

Well, I really like Hell-cat and would love to have seen her become more active with the team. I also think She-Hulk and Photon are awesome. My real favorite though would have to be the Wasp (As was well hinted by my name). I like to watch characters grow and she has done that more than any other character through the years. She started off as a weak female who could only shrink and fly and was constantly getting in over her head. She wasn't really interested in the hero business, but it was fun for her and she could try on new costumes and be famous. As the years went on, her powers developed and she worked her way into becoming one of the teams best leaders. That's why I was really disappointed that they had her get drunk and spill the beans to Wanda about the babies, thus initiating the whole Disassembled mess. Her role in that still needs to be explored.
On a side note, I like that Marvel women in general have developed so much through the decades. In the beginning it was just Jan, Sue (The Invisible GIRL), Jean (Marvel GIRL), and Wanda. All of them were the least powerful and least valuable members of their teams. As the years have gone by, they have all grown to be some the most powerful influences in the Marvel U. You go girls!

[Shiryu]

Guess it reflects the growing social development of women in the society.
I read somewhere that, in one of the early issues of the FF, Reed makes a joke saying that they only keep Sue with them because she cheers them up or something like that, which really hints at how women were looked at in the sixties.
Luckily society has developed, and so have comics' female characters.

[The Night Phantom]

Spiderwasp said:

On a side note, I like that Marvel women in general have developed so much through the decades. In the beginning it was just Jan, Sue (The Invisible GIRL), Jean (Marvel GIRL), and Wanda. All of them were the least powerful and least valuable members of their teams. As the years have gone by, they have all grown to be some the most powerful influences in the Marvel U. You go girls!

Some good points here. All but Jean have taken up leadership within their teams, and even outside formal leadership all four have held positions of trust, counsel, and spirit. They have also grown to be quite powerful in the super-power sense. Wanda and Jean’s awesome powers have unfortunately been depicted at their greatest when the characters acted as de facto villainesses, but they have also harnessed great power in the service of good. Among these four, Sue (who has also had “bad girl” phases) has probably had the greatest growth as a wielder of super powers since the beginning of their heroine careers, turning from a girl who would merely disappear, to a warrior who downed a Celestial! That sort of development is all well and good, but I do think it was a mistake for Chuck Austen to “upgrade” Jan’s powers when he made her into Giant Woman. The fact is that, while her Wasp abilities may have not had the thunder and glory of the team’s big guns, she was still a rather formidable opponent. My suspicion is that Austen wanted to essentially show the character some due respect by turning her into a (literally) big gun; but in so doing, he was perhaps slighting the amazing contributions she had already been making with her Wasp powers. Giant size and super strength may be flashier, but they’re also (in the world of superheroics) more banal.

[Shiryu]

I overall agree with you there.
While it makes sense that Wasp can grow just like Hank, I'd rather have her as the Wasp. One of her strenghts was finding the way to defeat stronger opponents (like Titania or the Absorbing man, or Tehtra of the Fomors) with her Wasp stings and / or intelligence. As Giant Woman she seems to be just another super muscled character.

[The Night Phantom]

After I posted above, I got to thinking about Jan’s brief stint as Giant Woman. As I recall, she showed a lot of ineptitude. One could attribute that to her inexperience as a giantess, but I suppose it’s possible Austen was planning to show that she is more valuable as the Wasp. Maybe I’m giving him too much credit. Let’s hope that, big or small, Jan makes a comeback soon!

[Bored Yesterday]

I really miss the Wasp. To me, that's the Avengers. If the Wasp is in the story, you know the Avengers are there. Maybe she could pay to rebuild the Avengers Mansion and not let Tony Stark anywhere near the place. Her run as Chairperson was great. I remember there were situations when she was stuck commanding Captain America, and it was great the way Cap stepped back and let her find her leadership persona.

As a matter of fact, I'd like to say something outrageous, like I'm not buying another Avengers comic book (new ones) that doesnt' have the Wasp in it.

I liked seeing her as a giantess, for shear novelty, but of course, she'll always be the winsome Wasp. I liked when she caught tackled the Quin Jet that the Wrecking Crew were heisting. That was a good scene.

[spiderwasp]

Bored said:

I really miss the Wasp. To me, that's the Avengers. If the Wasp is in the story, you know the Avengers are there.

I couldn't agree more. I also agree with the points about her being best as Wasp rather than Giant Woman. It's good to see the little guy (Or gal) make the best of what power they have and come out on top. For that reason, she's probably a better role model than someone like Thor who's more adept at proving that might makes right.

[The Night Phantom]

Hooray for the Wasp!

Bored said:

Her run as Chairperson was great. I remember there were situations when she was stuck commanding Captain America, and it was great the way Cap stepped back and let her find her leadership persona.

Cap also did the same for Captain Marvel when she became team leader. I really enjoyed the two Captains’ camaraderie and mutual respect.

The first story I read with the Avengers in it was the original Marvel Super Heroes Secret Wars. The Wasp was the Avengers’ chairperson then. When the collected heroes were discussing the question of a leader, the Wasp nobly bowed out, under the rationale that as a leader she was relatively new and untested vis-à-vis the non-Avengers, and she graciously allowed Captain America to take the leadership position. That was cool of her too...recognizing immediately that as a leader she must choose not to lead.

(It was probably also a good commercial decision by Jim Shooter to put someone more broadly recognizable like Captain America in charge of the hero team, but I digress...)

[Shiryu]

The Secret Wars are actually the only book in which Wasp really annoyed me. For some reason she spent all her "on screen" time complaining for her hairs, nails, appearence etc.
I found it very strange that she was portrayed in such a shallow way, since in the main Avengers book she was being a good chairwoman, showing a very strong personality in dealing with the group and her personal problems with Hank (I think that was not long after her divorce).

[Nutcase65]

I think for most purposes I really like the Wasp. We just got to see a lot of character development here. She made a very strong leader and she developed out of the whole twit phase.

After her I have to go with She-Hulk. She is both smart and funny. Just really enjoyable watching her enteract with others, especially Hawkeye and Hercules

[ultron69]

May favorite is the Wasp. She just seems like a fun, and real, person. She eventually started taking the superhero thing seriously, but always had that other, fun loving side of her.
She-Hulk would be my second choice. I love the way she is comfortable in her (green) skin, plus, as nutcase said, she is smart and funny.

When I was younger, Scarlet Witch was my favorite, but that's probably because I thought she was hot. I still like her, but she's only #3 at best now.