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Post by AVFOREVER on Mar 18, 2006 6:48:38 GMT -5
I'm an Avenger reader from way back...gave it up over 10 years ago(probably 1993 or so) when comic collecting began to lose the "fun" it once had for me. The storylines had sort of degenerated to a point and they didn't have the same "must read" quality they had in the days of the Korvac or Thanos sagas...or even the Masters Of Evil invading the Avengers Mansion storyline years later. I haven't read a single Avenger comic book in all those years and have only journeyed into a comic book store once or twice in that time and then only fondly looked at some of the covers and "thought" about picking up an issue for old times sake. I picked up the Ultimate Avengers DVD recently on a whim at Wal Mart...just to see what it would be like...as I did enjoy the Marvel movies like X-Men and Spider-Man. I viewed the extra features and saw that there is some sort of new Avengers team out now...with Spider-Man?...Spider-Woman?...and Wolverine? I guess the question I want to ask is...is this based in Marvel continuity or is this the "real" Avengers team nowadays. To me..the Avengers will always be the core group of Captain America, Thor, Iron Man...secondary members Scarlet Witch, Vision, Hawkeye, Wonder-Man, Beast, Wasp, Henry Pym, and later members that I thought were okay like Hercules and Captain Marvel(Monica Rambeau). I guess I'm confused because there is supposedly two series out now...The Ultimates and New Avengers...are the Ultimates referred to as the Ultimates(as in..is this their team name) or is it a reference to them being the Ultimate Avengers and the series is merely paying homage to them...and doesn't take place in Marvel Universe proper. Also, I had heard that a few years back Marvel continuity was erased and that the series that are out now...have nothing to do with the original Marvel Universe that I knew and loved. I ask these questions, because I'm seriously considering picking up a few issues to see how they are...but don't want to waste my time if it doesn't actually take place in the Marvel Universe of old. Thanks.
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Post by Shiryu on Mar 18, 2006 9:26:37 GMT -5
Well, it's a bit of a long story, but to make it short a couple of years ago the Avengers were nearly destroyed by the Scarlet Witch who suffered a serious nervous breakdown. Loosing control of her powers, she caused an insane number of enemies to attack the Avengers, including Krees and Ultron. In the following battle, the Mansion was destroyed, and Vision, Hawkeye and Ant-Man II died. With their spirit broken, and Iron Man unable to found the team anymore, the Avengers disbanded. A few months later, Cap, Devil, Iron Man, Spider Woman and Spider Man all ended up at Ryker's Island during a massive breakout. This inspider Cap, who decided to form a team of "New Avengers". Devil was the only one to refuse, but later on the group took Wolverine and Sentry. They are currently living in a skycraper belonging to Stark. This is the essential version of it. Something else you might be interested in is that many heroes have gone public with their (once) secret identities. This includes Cap and Iron Man (Devil has been outmasked by the press).
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Post by Van Plexico on Mar 19, 2006 18:04:26 GMT -5
Shiryu did a good job of recapping "Avengers DisAssembled" (Ugh!) and the origins of the "New Avengers" (double Ugh!).
And, yes, NEW AVENGERS is definitely set in the "real" Marvel Universe... unfortunately! Thor has vanished, the Vision was "killed" during "Disassembled" and is now a sort of "Young Vision" in the pages of "Young Avengers" (but, as stupid as that sounds, it's actually a quite excellent series)... Hawkeye *may* be dead, killed during Disassembled... same with Ant-Man (Scott Lang) and Jack of Hearts. Wanda's freaking out was what led also to the "House of M" event last year. (Blah.)
Here are some thoughts on the rest of your questions:
The ULTIMATES-- that is the name of the team, yes, in their "Ultimate Marvel" reality, which was basically set up around the time the Marvel movies hit big, in order for new readers to have something that would be 1) just starting, not 40 years deep in continuity, and 2) something more modern and more like the movies. Hence the first two titles were ULTIMATE SPIDER MAN and ULTIMATE X-MEN, both much more like the movie storylines, I think. (I actually enjoy Ultimate Spidey, but haven't read ULT X-MEN.)
I think ULTIMATES and ULTIMATE FF are both very enjoyable reads-- I like Mark Millar's work-- but both are definitely NOT the Avengers and FF I knew and loved, growing up. They have a place, and that's fine, as long as they stay in it. :-) The characters there tend to be very exaggerated versions of the ones we knew-- Tony Stark is a total womanizing alcoholic... Hank Pym nearly beat Jan to death... Cap ain't nearly so nice... you get the picture.
I don't recall any "erasure" of Marvel's continuity. The books have almost all been restarted/renumbered a couple of times (at least) over the past few years, but things are pretty much the same, in terms of continuity.
If you like the old stuff (like I do), I would recommend the following:
THUNDERBOLTS
THE THING
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Post by Yellowjacket on Mar 21, 2006 2:14:32 GMT -5
I agree with your description about the Ultimate Avengers characters, but Millar really gives ´em some fresh air, I enjoy the stories very much. There´s also a dosis of (kind of) realism in the stories, and quite some aggression, not to say brutality in the stories. Not quite on Punisher Max level, but a hefty dosis nevertheless (quite some killing factor).
Especially the last both issues (Ultimates 2 #9/10) I enjoyed very much, Millar tears the Ultimate order apart (maybe his version of Civil War). In #10 Tony Stark gets a cool appearence, still a womanizing alcoholic (and cancer sick as well), but a responsible team member (leader) as well.
So, Ultimates indeed does not take place in the ("old")616 universe (which I still enjoy), but I would highly recommend it.
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Post by AVFOREVER on Mar 21, 2006 14:18:22 GMT -5
Thanks for the responses. Sounds to me like the New Avengers haven't really gone over too well with all the old time Avengers readers. Hopefully Marvel brings back the "classic" team. BTW...does the West Coast Avengers still exist(not the book...but does the team still exist)? And is Wolverine still a member of the X-Men, if he's tooling around with the Avengers? I'm probably gonna check out the Ultimates...based on some of your comments...but stay away from this New Avengers book.
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Post by dlw66 on Mar 21, 2006 14:22:59 GMT -5
Get the trade paperback for the first Ulitmates series. You can probably score individual issues of Ulitmates 2 at a comics shop.
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Post by Yellowjacket on Mar 22, 2006 9:31:35 GMT -5
BTW...does the West Coast Avengers still exist(not the book...but does the team still exist)? No, I haven´t read the issues yet, but the West Coast Team was dissolved (and Force Works was set up, but should be dissolved too). And is Wolverine still a member of the X-Men, if he's tooling around with the Avengers? Yes, he is still a member of the X-Men. I think the arrangement is, whenever he has time (means, when Bendis wants to use him) he helps the Avengers. Personally I can say, I love the classic Avengers, like the Ultimates AND enjoy Bendis New Avengers as well. I likewise think SM and Wolverine should not be members of the Avengers, at least not active members. But it´s not that bad and someday they will quit.
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Post by Yellowjacket on Mar 24, 2006 8:23:01 GMT -5
If you like the old stuff (like I do), I would recommend the following: THUNDERBOLTS THE THING Can´t say much about the Thunderbolts as I hardly ever read an issue, above all not a current one. The new Thing (I would think Volume 2) series I have read. And so far it´s really in the vein of the TIO/Thing (Vol. 1) stuff. But, so far I do not really know what to make of it. Personally, I think the first two-part story is quite bad, nice drawings, but the story itself constrained, kind of forced to be funny. Aside from that, I just read a TIO story, very much alike that new one. On the other hand, I enjoyed issue 3 very much, this one I think is really fun and has got even some deeper sense (which is present in the first issues, too). Then again, the idea of Lockjaw being Thing´s pal/sidekick isn´t new at all - but this one I liked back then and I still like it today. So, I will stay with the series, at least for a year or two.
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Post by Shiryu on Mar 24, 2006 9:19:54 GMT -5
If you like the Spider family, I would suggest Spider-Girl too, very nice and fresh stories, usually quite enjoyable.
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